Brettus

iTrader: (2)

damn - i meant to get you to tell him about those driving tips i had for him .

How did he go ?

swoope

iTrader: (5)

i gave him what you told me. i think they were second..

but he looked good!

beers

robrecht

Sounds reasonable to me, but what do I know?

Swoope, how many people have had similar problems that you are attributing to the manner that premix is added to the tank?

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

its illegal also. but IMO you wont have any issues doing...

i think i saw that as well. this is something i researched for a project i did while working in Fire Prevention at my last department after having 5 fuel spills and 2 resulting in minor(luckily) fires within a 7 week period. The law dictates no use of cell phones, unapproved containers etc... In reality its physically impossible for the use of a cell phone to ignite fuel sold at gas stations. Now if you're playing with nitrometh etc or have a cell phone malfunction that shorts the battery or something, then you could be toast.
Static... while entirely possible to ignite fuel via static discharge, you've got better odds of being struck by lightening. even if you were trying. i used to have figures that demonstrated the measure of discharge required to ignite the "perfect condition" and its insanely unlikely. That said i still dont think its a good idea to go asking for it by climbing in and out of your car during fueling, which is the easiest way to build strong static charges

I am thinking like swoope has mentioned that a large factor is the specific premix used. I also think gas quality has more of an effect if you are premixing. My issue with the whole deal is i am unwilling to go to such inconvenient lengths to ensure proper lube. I'll be using the Sohn as soon as i go home and start boosting, but will not premix. In a perfect world, when the time comes for my current motor to go, i will replace it with the new one and put 2 stroke through those pumps(hopefully the A/C industry aka RS ave figured that out for me by then)

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

I love the franken pump!!
Pics dont lie.
Our pump is not a sucker--its a pusher. Any resistance to the limited suction ability is not good. The sock is a SMALL sized 30 mic sock. (just a school class demo--take it off wet it and try to suck air through it) we need a bigger 70 mic sock. premix DOES affect the gas and dont get me started on sediment, ethanol and water.
Currently i use atf and kerosene (smart ones will know what I mean!) as premix.
Over time not only the sock but the filter itself can become problematic. Mostly on the track, but for some also on the road resulting in AA being called.
The 09 fuel pump assembley NOW has a replaceable fuel filter, replaced fpr and venturi set up(resulting in a larger void space in the can and a resigned sock. They dont change things without a reason, it appears interchangable and i will know for sure 2/1/09.
Swoop--ingenious on the sock cut out and I will show you some more stuff this w/e.
Wouldnt you know that fuel pressure is not the problem--its fuel volumne. This makes it more difficult to pinpoint. But a jar and a jumper will suffice---do NOT try this at home if you dont know what you are doing!
olddragger

swoope

iTrader: (5)

beers

expo1

Swoope,

If you bring your tool with you to Mazmart would it be easy to pull my pump and look at the sock? That would be a pump with 28,000 miles using idemitsu, at a ratio of under 4oz per tank.

skrubol

iTrader: (1)

What are some symptoms of issues with fuel delivery?

swoope

iTrader: (5)

trust me. the tool and a new pump go with me everywhere!!

but sure we can do that.. maybe we could have a fuel pump show and tell!

just try to show up with little gas in the tank..

beers

Nubo

I use MMO. I can only relate what I've actually seen when mixing fuel/oil for my weed-whacker . I usually just mix right in the weed-whacker's tank, pour in gas and leave a little room for the oil. I've used a few different types, from the el-cheapo stuff, to Mobil racing 4T, 5W30 when I had nothing else, and more recently, MMO.

I've noticed the MMO mixes far more rapidly and easily; just one shake seems to be enough or even just letting it sit a couple of minutes. Whereas, the other stuff usually settled to the bottom and took some vigorous shaking to distribute. MMO seems to do just fine as premix; the revs are a bit higher. Of course I have no idea what the true wear rate is on the weedwhacker engine. I will say that the Mobil stuff had the least smoke at startup of the WW of anything I've tried.

In terms of what's happening in the bottom of a car's tank, I'm just guessing but I can see how some portion the thicker stuff might settle, and then act as a binder to the inevitable bits of dirt, and you end up with big greasy globs instead of fine-grained contaminants. Those globs attract other globs, etc... Maybe also some reaction with any droplets of water that might be there?

DynamicDookie

iTrader: (3)

...also using idemitsu and very interested in seeing that sock.

robrecht

I have no trouble realizing that changes to the fuel pump were a good idea, but I think the real culprit is more likely sediment from cheap gas and dirty gas tanks. I still have a problem imagining that 4-5 oz of premix is actually the real problem. Most of the time I fill up, there's probably 2-3 gallons of gas still left in the 16 gallon tank before I immediately fill up with another 13-14 gallons. All this before the fuel pump is ever activated.

But, like I say, what the hell do I know? How many people are really believing that premix is causing this problem on their cars? Where exactly is the fuel pump located in the tank? Are people with this problem waiting until their tank is bone dry before adding premix to their crud-filled tanks? It doesn't seem to make sense to me yet.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

i'm leaning towards thinking that while there may be other issues, that some forms of premix that dont blend and distribute as well may be in part sticking to any sediment in the tank and causing what would normally not get stuck in the sock to stick.

imagine a fine screen in front of a water hose, the water carries some small debris, tiny little fragments of pebbles. the pebble fragments dont make it through and do not collect in the screen either. now turn that into muddy water and all of a sudden the fragments can start to stick and build up in the screen.....

swoope, thoughts?

anyone have access to the SAE Fluidity/Miscibility charts/catergorization? SAE-J1536

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

premix itself is NOT the problem. The problem is the inevitable sediment that we ALL will get in the gas we buy +premix+the volume we use+the time frame. If we never had sediment we would never have the problem.
pm trans explanation to ya.
OD

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

understand that. but being that sediment is a FACT, do some perticular brands/grades of premix lend a hand in picking up sediment and helping it gunk in their moreso than it would w/o premix? knowing that there are different grades as far as miscibility, i would tend to think that its possible some of us are simply using a premix that does not "mix" well

awaiting PM thanks brettus

Icemark

and do you have pictures for use to compare MMO to 2 stroke to nothing?

DOMINION

Please pm me pix when you do. Never know Hell might freez over and I might miss the thread lol

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

very interesting swoope!
I am curious to see expo's pump

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Don't fuel pump hoses have filters on them?

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

no
OD

swoope

iTrader: (5)

i really think my issue is a combo of the dump and fill method and using different types of premix years ago.. likely a bit to h20, and i do run my tank down!

but to look at the last sock, up close in person. it looks more like oil. clumps,, the smart people will get to see it this weekend.

beers

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

does that mean i'm stupid
lol

longpath

iTrader: (1)

So, given these pictures, do we know what premix was used?

Not being an engineer, are there tests or standards for how well various 2 stroke oils or other premix blend with gasoline?

Do we know how adhesive the gasoline/premix blend is and what viscosity fluids can flow through the fuel pump's filter sock without damaging the pump?

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

fp+ FTW

swoope

iTrader: (5)

not at all. that is why i am going to get smart people to look at the stuff. all i am doing is taking an educated guess with 75k miles of premixing.

beers