TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

wow

Ramart

Hmm. Despite rotarygod's anecdotal report that the "world's No. 1 rotary (oil?) expert" declared Mobil 1 bad and Valvoline syn good:

These photos seems to show Mobil 1 actually leaving less gunk than Valvoline after the burn tests, though neither burned as clean as some others. Do the photos suggest unexpected, unpredictable results, even among different synthetics from the same manufacturer?

No comments here yet on the link I posted?: http://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/synthetc.htm

Emery_

iTrader: (8)

'

Wow that is a great find!

paimon.soror

iTrader: (15)

Motto: Our Oil I-sn't working

Emery_

iTrader: (8)

That seriously looks soo bad... Anyone notice how most of the BMW oils had polymerized and thickened a lot? What oils would you guys say look best leaving the least residue and gunk?

A lot of the unknown brands actually looked really good, but most of them I have never heard of. Shell oil looked absolutely terrible.

paimon.soror

iTrader: (15)

bmw oils = castrol

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Here are the best of the bunch, not including anything that probably isn't very available in the US, so if you are outside the US then you will have to take a look at what is the best of what you have available. I just simply don't know what oils are available elsewhere in the world at a specific location.


Castrol EDGE SAE 0W40 A3/B4 FST deposits


BMW ORIGINAL SAE 0W30 QUALITY LONGLIFE LL-01FE deposits


TOYOTA MOTOR OIL SAE 5W30 deposits


BMW ORIGINAL SUPER POWER OIL SAE 5W40


TOTAL QUARTZ 7000 SAE 10W40


CASTROL MAGNATEC A3/B3 SAE 10W40

paimon.soror

iTrader: (15)

now the question is, how do these results relate to the analysis of the oils from a chemical makeup perspective (blackstone analysis)

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I actually switched tabs back to this thread to see that post from sending an email to Blackstone to get their opinion on that test.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Hmm.

Based on these images alone, plus the weight of each, I'd say that Castol Edge is the oil to use for us, HOWEVER, the problem is that this is just how the oil deals with heat. I have no idea what kind of parallel there would be to the actual lubrication and additive package. For example Castol Edge might be fantastic at not having issues like many oils but if Mobile 1 actually protects better, even if it doesn't deal with the heat as well, then would that make Mobile 1 a better oil?

I don't have an answer to this question, but would like to find one. Hoping Blackstone could shed some light.

paimon.soror

iTrader: (15)

also take into account that we are talking about a test done at 700F sustained for over an hour.

Sounds like an extreme case to me..... it would be interesting to see results at actual combustion cycle temps.

Vlaze

iTrader: (14)

Often tests are done like this to accelerate results. The higher temperature at a shorter time frame is to simulate normal operating temperatures for a certain duration of years of life expectancy.

There is a formula on this but I don't have it off top of my head. I've done similar tests at work involving corrosion between different metals submerged in water at different temperatures to simulate different time frames.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Anyone know the temp of our oil where it exits the block? I would suspect that the oil temp there is closer to this test temp, where it would have some legitimacy.

I do agree that the test has no indication on quality of oil burn and deposits left behind when burnt at combustion temp. I would expect that any test in regards to that would have to actually have a mix of gasoline in the oil, since our injected oil gets diluted by gas before/during the burn, and I expect that would change the results.

Vlaze

iTrader: (14)

I seriously doubt any engine oil is close to that high of a temperature with perhaps special, non-automotive engines being the exception. Keep in mind it's constantly flowing so it will adapt to the overall net temperature of the materials it is in contact with.

You're expecting it to differentiate 5~600F to get the typical 2~250F reading most cars would see which is highly unlikely. The temperature that they are exposed to is different from what the oil actually is itself. Gas engines are somewhere around 3~400F I think where the top piston ring is which experiences some of the hottest temperatures that the oil is exposed to and for diesel over 600F. Again that is what they are just exposed to.

I suspect is has to do with accelerated testing methods as I previously mentioned but could be wrong, especially if it has to do with use for various types of engines.

Vlaze

iTrader: (14)

Probably, question is how long though before that becomes an influencing factor to the data. If they are using accelerated testing methods as mentioned they likely would take this into account.

Of course like anything these days it seems best not to have too many presumptions.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I'm pondering the same thing.

For example, if it is really just acceleration of effect, then what time does it compare to oil sitting at 70F for (?) time frame. Or if it really was just acceleration, there still has to be limits, because at some point the oil will reach a temperature that will make it self ignite (assuming there is air present). I guess that there is no air present in the test, since my last oil report shows that my oil had a flashpoint of 390F. I think flashpoint differs from self-combustion though.

Nevermind, missed this line:

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I have measured temp in the oil pan and they are not really any higher than when read from the oil filter adapter plate. Even in extreme driving in 100+ weather the highest I have seen is 230F or so.

Mobil1 FTW.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Good to know 9k.


Yeah, Mobile 1's wear data from the samples is great, and it's not too bad in the testing either:

Mobil 1 SAE 0W40 USA deposits.

Not as clean as I'd prefer, but better than most. I am considering going with Castol Edge for the next change to see what it's wear analysis is like.


BTW: I saved everything from that thread, in case it vanishes at some future point.

Vlaze

iTrader: (14)

Keep in mind they have to test vaporization of the oil itself and allowed tolerances, etc. Once the oil reaches the flash point it will vaporize but the oil itself will never reach the temperature past that limit (since it will be in vapor form obviously). So testing at something as high as 700F when the flashpoint of said oil is lower means the liquid will only see temperatures around its flashpoint with the surface wicking off vapors.

Flash point is different than autoignite point where it will catch on fire by itself. They likely have this done in a controlled and yet vented environment.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yeah, but I went through a couple OCI's with Castrol GC (green cap European Formula) 0W-30 and it didn't perform very well even after only 1500 miles. Cst @100C was like in the low 8's already. From what I read Edge is the same stuff. It would be easy to find out though, I could go through a couple changes with Castrol Edge 0W-40 and see how it tests.

Iluvrevs

For those interested this oil is available at Matrix Synthetic Oils - ELF, Motul, Total, Liqui Molly, Luboron and other Synthetic Lubricants.. Not a horrible price either.

I have another site where someone did an extreme pressure test at an elevated temp from the ASTM test method D 2782 for those that might be interested in that.

Motor Oil Wear Test Results

Isnt well received but may have some value.

smn

synthetic oil maintains it's lubrucation properties for a greater length of time compared to mineral oil , a great advantage for normal piston engines , as far as this goes i've no hesitation in using factory recomended synthetic oils in my 8 5/30 in europe.

Ramart

Huh? Duh. You didn't comprehend what I wrote: I'll tend to err on the side of conventional wisdom (and use dino oil in rotaries) vs. beliefs that syn boosters glean from blog postings like those of rotarygod (who said the world's No. 1 rotary expert disses Mobil 1 but likes Valvoline). We now see from the newly posted burn-test photos that Mobil 1 burns cleaner than Valvoline, so maybe rotarygod is not as god-like as you may think.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

A) The pics aren't burn tests

B) I actually did comprehend what you wrote, I just don't comprehend a thought process that so totally rejects a very compelling line of thought just because it's on the internet, when the option you pick instead is "because of a blog post" (which also happens to be on the internet). It's an inconsistency in your logic that I find befuddling.

Ramart

Wrong. In fact, I say the Internet is irrelevant to this issue, as you also conclude (since syn/rotary pro and con POVs are both online).

Actually, the much-dissed owner's manual is what's NOT online, and that's where I choose to put much of my faith regarding the conventional wisdom that dino oil is a safer bet in rotaries (unless the user possesses some specific, scientifically derived knowledge about the safety of a particular synthetic).