Confirmed : NYCGPS's Motor is dead~
04-04-2009, 12:33 AM
#101
That would be me.
Im fairly sure that my line is ok.
I put my bet on weak transmission than improper clutch line bleeding.
Gimme a 09 tranny ~~~~ lol !
Dont forget, This car's clutch bracket issue .... still not resolved. and its probably one of the major cause for tranny failure.
Yes I know that there is something wrong.
but there is nothing much I can do about it. No CEL, compression numbers were OK until now.
There is no reason for me to pay and open it up just to see "what sup". Warranty is here for a reason.
IMO early Rx-8 really has a lot of issues, and it took Mazda "quite a while" before they realized it. Damage is already done. Im a great example.
I would love to disconnect OMP altogether And just Premix all the way. but I cannot disconnect OMP without PCM bitching. I can add the adapter and feed premix with it. I guess I might do that later.
I know about the heavy oil benefits. hell I had some post as my signature for a lonnnnng while (I updated my sig just yesterday)
and when I told people to use at least 10w40 and 5w20 is just pathetic, u know how much "flame" I've received ? got stuff like "you dont know ****" "you think you outsmart the guys @ mazda ?" "you think they would recommend something that might destroy their motor ??"
Im happy for now ... waiting ...
PPL said its not neeeeeededddd ! 
oh btw, isnt mazda against "any kind of fuel additives ?"
Anyway, I guess I gotta wait till monday to see "the fate of my rx-8" ?
Just wanted to chime in but having read the first page there are a few things I would like to point out which I find personally in a way hilarious.
#1 Clutch was "bled" many times problems persisted owner lives with it.
-Do you know how much harder it is to properly bleed a clutch than brakes? In my opinion having tried all the various bleeding methods (vacuum, regular and power) the only way to bleed a clutch effectively the first time and every time. I could easily pass 2 L of brake fluid through a clutch line and not get the same results as I do using my Motive Power Bleeder and 500ml of fluid, all the air comes out within the first turn of the bleed valve.
#1 Clutch was "bled" many times problems persisted owner lives with it.
-Do you know how much harder it is to properly bleed a clutch than brakes? In my opinion having tried all the various bleeding methods (vacuum, regular and power) the only way to bleed a clutch effectively the first time and every time. I could easily pass 2 L of brake fluid through a clutch line and not get the same results as I do using my Motive Power Bleeder and 500ml of fluid, all the air comes out within the first turn of the bleed valve.
I put my bet on weak transmission than improper clutch line bleeding.
Gimme a 09 tranny ~~~~ lol !
Dont forget, This car's clutch bracket issue .... still not resolved. and its probably one of the major cause for tranny failure.
#2 Owner notices a gradual decrease in mpg again doesn't do much mixes up the premixing but does nothing else.
-Comming from the FD world I can't comment specifically but I can say that when you notice DRASTIC changes in MPG it has something to do not with the engine but rather with the auxiliary systems. Meaning specifically: carbon deposits prevent engine internals from operating perfectly and that prevents the car pulling in the amount of air in that it should be (vacuum) agreed. However, it is the fine atomization of fuel and the ignition of it that produces your mpg figures. So the first place to look if you are having mpg issues is at your injectors, pump, fuel filter and ignition system. Fuel filters should be changed every 12k Miles and injectors should be regularly serviced. Seeing a decrease of 70 miles a tank should have immediately pointed you to dismantling, inspecting and repairing the culprits.
-Comming from the FD world I can't comment specifically but I can say that when you notice DRASTIC changes in MPG it has something to do not with the engine but rather with the auxiliary systems. Meaning specifically: carbon deposits prevent engine internals from operating perfectly and that prevents the car pulling in the amount of air in that it should be (vacuum) agreed. However, it is the fine atomization of fuel and the ignition of it that produces your mpg figures. So the first place to look if you are having mpg issues is at your injectors, pump, fuel filter and ignition system. Fuel filters should be changed every 12k Miles and injectors should be regularly serviced. Seeing a decrease of 70 miles a tank should have immediately pointed you to dismantling, inspecting and repairing the culprits.
but there is nothing much I can do about it. No CEL, compression numbers were OK until now.
There is no reason for me to pay and open it up just to see "what sup". Warranty is here for a reason.
IMO early Rx-8 really has a lot of issues, and it took Mazda "quite a while" before they realized it. Damage is already done. Im a great example.
#3. The motor injects motor oil, unless you have no OMP and it blocked off it is injecting motor oil point in case. Doing this increases carbon deposits, carbon deposits as mentioned previously prevent the engine internals from working as they were designed to. The Renesis has an additional "side seal" which previous rotaries have not if the spring grooves of all the seals are not clean you won't be having proper vacuum that is for sure, that will be a slow death.
Finally, you should be using a minimum of xw50 motor oil, if you don't know why and this forum doesn't explain it well enough I suggest you have a thorough reading of the following:
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136052
Heavier oil is just going to help you prevent rotor bearing failure.
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136052
Heavier oil is just going to help you prevent rotor bearing failure.
and when I told people to use at least 10w40 and 5w20 is just pathetic, u know how much "flame" I've received ? got stuff like "you dont know ****" "you think you outsmart the guys @ mazda ?" "you think they would recommend something that might destroy their motor ??"
Happy rotoring and remember there is a solution to everything and even when our motors chuck an Apex we can just be happy that they cost 1/3 the price of comparable piston engines to rebuild
Removing the OMP and running premix is the best for street use which is actually MORE brutal to the motors internals then race scenarios. The rotary is built for sustained high rpm performance, thats where the racecars keep them that's where they're happy.
As for race guys rebuilding 4 times a year, I have known many people go entire seasons without touching it. IIRC Mazda's 767B 4 Rotor was never rebuilt during it's amazing season, i could be thinking of another stat forgive me if im off about that.
To be honest tho a racing motor is ripped apart generally not for failure but for safety replacements. Piston engines are stripped and rebuilt after EVERY race. Having to teardown and rebuild your motor maybe 4 times compared to everytime is rather amazing.
Here's what it comes down to: adding premix to your car IS PROVEN to increase engine internal lubricity and overall condition and health of the motor. There are absolutely NO DOWNSIDES to premixing. So why wouldn't you premix? It's the only mod that is all positive no negative and only requires you to purchase oil and pour in tank...you can leave the OMP system functioning normally and still premix. The rotary engine is special, and it is VERY needy, but it produces amazing results when you provide it with what it needs. If you can honestly read that sentence at the beginning of this paragraph and say "nah i dont want to premix" then you're, well i dont even know but it would be ridiculous.
kevin.
As for race guys rebuilding 4 times a year, I have known many people go entire seasons without touching it. IIRC Mazda's 767B 4 Rotor was never rebuilt during it's amazing season, i could be thinking of another stat forgive me if im off about that.
To be honest tho a racing motor is ripped apart generally not for failure but for safety replacements. Piston engines are stripped and rebuilt after EVERY race. Having to teardown and rebuild your motor maybe 4 times compared to everytime is rather amazing.
Here's what it comes down to: adding premix to your car IS PROVEN to increase engine internal lubricity and overall condition and health of the motor. There are absolutely NO DOWNSIDES to premixing. So why wouldn't you premix? It's the only mod that is all positive no negative and only requires you to purchase oil and pour in tank...you can leave the OMP system functioning normally and still premix. The rotary engine is special, and it is VERY needy, but it produces amazing results when you provide it with what it needs. If you can honestly read that sentence at the beginning of this paragraph and say "nah i dont want to premix" then you're, well i dont even know but it would be ridiculous.
kevin.
oh btw, isnt mazda against "any kind of fuel additives ?"
Anyway, I guess I gotta wait till monday to see "the fate of my rx-8" ?
Last edited by nycgps; 04-04-2009 at 01:21 AM.
04-04-2009, 12:52 AM
#102
The EMOP on the 09's are picking up engine oil direct from the Oil Pump after the oil filter, so at the very least it is as clean as possible.
I actually change my oil and filter every 5000 KM (3000 Miles), with Castrol GTX3 (In Australia it is 15w40), I have some MRO 5W30 I will only use in winter.
We should all know that when you replace your oil you are really only changing about 65% as the old oil is still in the Oil Coolers, so please change your oil at least every 3k's.
Also agree with Kevin on the Rotor Bearing failures (particularly in the US), IMO using a 5W20 grade of oil is the reason!, Mazda's requirement for this grade was/is for Fuel Mileage.
What would you rather have, Better Fuel Economy or Better Engine Wear Protection?
IMO 5W20 and or 0W20,30 oils should be banned for Summer use.
I actually change my oil and filter every 5000 KM (3000 Miles), with Castrol GTX3 (In Australia it is 15w40), I have some MRO 5W30 I will only use in winter.
We should all know that when you replace your oil you are really only changing about 65% as the old oil is still in the Oil Coolers, so please change your oil at least every 3k's.
Also agree with Kevin on the Rotor Bearing failures (particularly in the US), IMO using a 5W20 grade of oil is the reason!, Mazda's requirement for this grade was/is for Fuel Mileage.
What would you rather have, Better Fuel Economy or Better Engine Wear Protection?
IMO 5W20 and or 0W20,30 oils should be banned for Summer use.
btw, to all kevin and search bitch!
great info coming out here.now kevin. if you can solve the pesky premix with track days fuel pump issue..
beers
04-04-2009, 01:03 AM
#103
Super Moderator
BTW: Yes, the RX-8 has had it's share of problems, but the good thing is Mazda has addressed most of them in the 09 models, not only to do with the engine.
I have always believed it is better to buy the next series of any Mazda and most new cars for that matter...but then you are not necessarily having the "Newest Car Out" sitting in your drive way.
IMO Ford had too much financial control with the building of the RX-8, they tried to save $50 here and there and have created a far greater problem with Warranty Costs years later.
I am pretty sure Mazda by themselves would not have let some of the known issues go into production if they had the last say..
Thank god Ford can go and Jump...Now.
Ash
04-04-2009, 01:07 AM
#104
Super Moderator
with the 04s. the early flashes did the damage. the k, and n. both started to help. but the damage was done. dont think they really started adding lots of oil till the t flash..
btw, to all kevin and search bitch! great info coming out here.
now kevin. if you can solve the pesky premix with track days fuel pump issue..
beers
btw, to all kevin and search bitch!
great info coming out here.now kevin. if you can solve the pesky premix with track days fuel pump issue..
beers
Flashes were for Oil Metering Pump Volumes etc.for Apex/Corner seals not bearings.
I am 99% certain it had noting to do with oil flow internally through rotors and eccentric shaft journals.
Ash
04-04-2009, 01:17 AM
#105
Super Moderator
Sorry to HOG here...
I noticed on the OIL Info Link (Ferrarichat.com), that BMW were having Con-rod Bearing failures when using their recommended 5w30 grade oils, so they changed it to a 10W60, no more problems!
I noticed on the OIL Info Link (Ferrarichat.com), that BMW were having Con-rod Bearing failures when using their recommended 5w30 grade oils, so they changed it to a 10W60, no more problems!
04-04-2009, 01:24 AM
#106
I think I remember ALL those years ago when I said 5W20 was not good enough I got lambasted and flamed as a newbie member, I think you were one of them mate, so I am happy to see you have joined the "heavy" side on oils...
BTW: Yes, the RX-8 has had it's share of problems, but the good thing is Mazda has addressed most of them in the 09 models, not only to do with the engine.
I have always believed it is better to buy the next series of any Mazda and most new cars for that matter...but then you are not necessarily having the "Newest Car Out" sitting in your drive way.
IMO Ford had too much financial control with the building of the RX-8, they tried to save $50 here and there and have created a far greater problem with Warranty Costs years later.
I am pretty sure Mazda by themselves would not have let some of the known issues go into production if they had the last say..
Thank god Ford can go and Jump...Now.
Ash
BTW: Yes, the RX-8 has had it's share of problems, but the good thing is Mazda has addressed most of them in the 09 models, not only to do with the engine.
I have always believed it is better to buy the next series of any Mazda and most new cars for that matter...but then you are not necessarily having the "Newest Car Out" sitting in your drive way.
IMO Ford had too much financial control with the building of the RX-8, they tried to save $50 here and there and have created a far greater problem with Warranty Costs years later.
I am pretty sure Mazda by themselves would not have let some of the known issues go into production if they had the last say..
Thank god Ford can go and Jump...Now.
Ash
Who u think you are ? King of the Rotary ? You think you are smarter than those engineers working Day & night at Mazda ? They tell ya to use 5w20, u USE IT !
Ford ... rofl.
Last edited by nycgps; 04-04-2009 at 01:27 AM.
04-04-2009, 01:35 AM
#109
I don't buy Kool-Aid
What about 20W-50?
I change my oil around 2500 or when it starts getting dark. I also flush it to get all that extra oil out. Or so I hope so. I use 5w-30 all year round.
The EMOP on the 09's are picking up engine oil direct from the Oil Pump after the oil filter, so at the very least it is as clean as possible.
I actually change my oil and filter every 5000 KM (3000 Miles), with Castrol GTX3 (In Australia it is 15w40), I have some MRO 5W30 I will only use in winter.
We should all know that when you replace your oil you are really only changing about 65% as the old oil is still in the Oil Coolers, so please change your oil at least every 3k's.
Also agree with Kevin on the Rotor Bearing failures (particularly in the US), IMO using a 5W20 grade of oil is the reason!, Mazda's requirement for this grade was/is for Fuel Mileage.
What would you rather have, Better Fuel Economy or Better Engine Wear Protection?
IMO 5W20 and or 0W20,30 oils should be banned for Summer use.
I actually change my oil and filter every 5000 KM (3000 Miles), with Castrol GTX3 (In Australia it is 15w40), I have some MRO 5W30 I will only use in winter.
We should all know that when you replace your oil you are really only changing about 65% as the old oil is still in the Oil Coolers, so please change your oil at least every 3k's.
Also agree with Kevin on the Rotor Bearing failures (particularly in the US), IMO using a 5W20 grade of oil is the reason!, Mazda's requirement for this grade was/is for Fuel Mileage.
What would you rather have, Better Fuel Economy or Better Engine Wear Protection?
IMO 5W20 and or 0W20,30 oils should be banned for Summer use.
04-04-2009, 01:49 AM
#111
Registered User
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old rotary trick you could do to steam clean your motor is while it's running (and is fully warmed up) connect a vac hose into a gallon jug of water (hose must reach at least 2 of the intake runners) and keep it running (you cant hydrolock the motor)
once the jug is done disconnect and go drive the **** out of it real quick.
kevin.
once the jug is done disconnect and go drive the **** out of it real quick.
kevin.
If you really wanted a carbon free motor the only way to go is Aux injection, as people start to learn more about it I think it will be something that maybe more 8 guys will go for as it is still in its relative infancy for FD's.
Basically,
Lower EGT, Less Knock, Less chance for pre-detonation and all the while keeps your internals in immaculate condition.
For good knowledge you should really check this out, it is the key to happy rotoring, fully programmable and mappable AUX injection.
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=576000
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=820079
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=829774
It is already gonna be on my FD and I would like to get one on the 8 as well.
04-04-2009, 02:04 AM
#112
Super Moderator
04-04-2009, 02:18 AM
#113
I don't buy Kool-Aid
Yeah steam. I use to put the Motor parts and Tranny parts in this large Steam Box that washed and cleaned them with hot as hell water. After we would rebuild. But I dont know about water in hot water in my oil. Might want to flush that oil right after you do something like that.
04-04-2009, 02:19 AM
#114
Super Moderator
old rotary trick you could do to steam clean your motor is while it's running (and is fully warmed up) connect a vac hose into a gallon jug of water (hose must reach at least 2 of the intake runners) and keep it running (you cant hydrolock the motor)
once the jug is done disconnect and go drive the **** out of it real quick. Gets rid of some nasty **** from your engine's system. You can do the same thing with ATF use it like you would the zoom cleaner except do it with the engine running, itll smoke like a bitch but it does wonders in the motor.
kevin.
once the jug is done disconnect and go drive the **** out of it real quick. Gets rid of some nasty **** from your engine's system. You can do the same thing with ATF use it like you would the zoom cleaner except do it with the engine running, itll smoke like a bitch but it does wonders in the motor.
kevin.
What do you guys at your dealership do or suggest in the future for 09 Series II RX-8's now as Mazda removed the TWO Vacuum intake nipples! like fitted on S1 RENESIS's?...
What is an easy way to connect into the intake if you wanted to Seafoam, ATF, or Water/Steam cleaning methods?
Ash
04-04-2009, 02:42 AM
#116
Super Moderator
Pretty hard if you need vacuum...
04-04-2009, 05:09 AM
#120
Registered
Doesn't adding premix lower the octane of the fuel? If so, that could create a detonation problem for forced induction engines. I reduced the amount of 2-stroke oil I add at each fillup for my FC turbo due to this possibility. Tuning on my car was done with 93 octane and very little premix added, so what happens to that baseline when you add say 13 oz. to a fillup?
04-04-2009, 06:17 AM
#121
Registered
Doesn't adding premix lower the octane of the fuel? If so, that could create a detonation problem for forced induction engines. I reduced the amount of 2-stroke oil I add at each fillup for my FC turbo due to this possibility. Tuning on my car was done with 93 octane and very little premix added, so what happens to that baseline when you add say 13 oz. to a fillup?
04-04-2009, 06:20 AM
#122
Registered
04-04-2009, 08:19 AM
#123
Seriously, I dont know.
Doesn't adding premix lower the octane of the fuel? If so, that could create a detonation problem for forced induction engines. I reduced the amount of 2-stroke oil I add at each fillup for my FC turbo due to this possibility. Tuning on my car was done with 93 octane and very little premix added, so what happens to that baseline when you add say 13 oz. to a fillup?
Last edited by nycgps; 04-05-2009 at 12:04 AM.
04-04-2009, 05:02 PM
#124
Certified Mazda Tech
Doesn't adding premix lower the octane of the fuel? If so, that could create a detonation problem for forced induction engines. I reduced the amount of 2-stroke oil I add at each fillup for my FC turbo due to this possibility. Tuning on my car was done with 93 octane and very little premix added, so what happens to that baseline when you add say 13 oz. to a fillup?
dradon03: I FULLY AGREE. Aux Injection is the BEST MOD for a rotary. I run 100% methanol injection on both my cars, altho 50/50 water/meth is acceptable as well.
Aux. Injection as a whole is still growing but the grassroots guys have been doing it for a very long time. With turbo rotaries it's the only reliable way to make 20+psi on the street.
ASH8: According to all my documentation there are still nipples on the LIM, I can't physically check at the moment but here's a photo of the motor from my documents (see attached)
edit: just noticed you have an aussie '09...if you can send me pics of the intake manifold and such since i dont have work until monday and I'll tell you the best vac spot. Realistically all you're looking for is a spot after the TB that will provide access to each runner. There's a couple you can use. I can post the vac hose routing diagram if you'd like so you can see all the hoses exposed. But if your engine has no side nipples my image won't be useful since apparently mazda's documentation of the motor is wrong (it's happened before, this way I can notify them of the problem and have it modified in all manuals and documents)
Also someone mentioned about water mixing with the oil when doing a steam clean, the water is completely vaporized by the combustion temperatures, remember the water is being added while the motor is running. You should definitely be premixing before you steam clean tho as a safety precaution.
kevin.
Last edited by teknics; 04-04-2009 at 05:26 PM.
04-05-2009, 12:06 AM
#125
Re-read the thread u n00b
Anyway, yes its still original motor. with 49.3 K miles.
Kevin,
nothing related to my motor/tranny/car whatever. guess your dealership went out of Mazda3 GTs(I think there was only 1 in Red, and it was sold) Cuz I sent a request today and the reply I got was
, no luck 
Anyway, yes its still original motor. with 49.3 K miles.
Kevin,
nothing related to my motor/tranny/car whatever. guess your dealership went out of Mazda3 GTs(I think there was only 1 in Red, and it was sold) Cuz I sent a request today and the reply I got was
Hello
We don't have the 2010 hatch Gt in stock yet so I can't give you number yet.
Diana Matano
We don't have the 2010 hatch Gt in stock yet so I can't give you number yet.
Diana Matano
, no luck