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One thing about the intake manifold will be the VDI system. This is a big part of the Renesis intake system. You aren't going to be able to do it with 3 rotors. There will have to be no VDI. This valve effectively changes the intake length. This would be extremely difficult to pull off with 3 rotors. VDI has never been applied to a 3 rotor successfully before. With a large amount of work you could make the auxiliary ports work but I just don't see VDI happening.
ill look into that, something i definately forgot about. what i REALLY need is an rx8 that i can tinker with. im tired of looking at schematics and drawings.
RG...something you said that didn't make sense to a newb like me. You mentioned that he would have to consider the extra heat (other words a change needed for the oil coolers, radiator, etc) with a 3-rotor.
Now, there are turbo guys here that are increasing the temp on their engines by adding a turbo...am I right? I would think a turbo on a 2-rotor would introduce higher temp's than a NA 3-rotor.
Now, of course I bring this up to learn because I would think a NA rotary would always be cooler than a Turbo rotary.
Of course I think he needs to take into consideration the extra heat but could he simply add a bigger more efficient radiator to take care of the extra temp's?
A turbo engine is only making more heat to the cooling systems when it is making more power. This means only under boost. Most of the time you aren't under boost. Typically it is for limited bursts of a few seconds unless you are racing. For the most part temps don't stay much higher with a turbo as long as your driving habits are the same as your average daily driving. For this reason you can generally get away with a stock or near stock cooling system for most use. It's only under harder driving for longer periods where it becomes necessary.
A 3 rotor is always making more heat than a 2 rotor due to the added combustion chamber. This is regardless of engine load. It is possible for a turbo 2 rotor to generate more heat than an n/a 3 rotor if it is putting out more power. At what loads will this be at and for how long though? Usually not very.
A larger radiator with proper ducting and larger oil coolers with proper ducting would greatly help.
A 3 rotor is always making more heat than a 2 rotor due to the added combustion chamber.
And what's worse, you now have a rotor which has BOTH sides exposed to an external heat source. Plus, the coolant has 50+% more distance to travel through the block, picking up heat on the way, so it's hotter when it gets to the last rotor.
Feeding coolant from the radiator into the water jacket AT EACH ROTOR might help. I don't know if you'd want to do this on the exhaust side, the power side, or top, but I would assume the exhaust side.
Alright since Corona has had me stuck inside I’ve been thinking a lot and I wanna bring this thread back if anyone is interested. It might not be practical or happen any time soon but it’s interesting to think about right? The biggest issue is this VDI system but if I’m not mistaken the 4 port engines don’t have the same intake runners as the 6 port right? I have the 6 so I see how they can make things really difficult but unless I’m missing something couldn’t you use two of the regular intermediate plates and all you’d have to worry about is the additional stationary gear and probably a little additional thickness to compensate for a regular 20b e-shaft? Obviously custom manifolds, fuel rails, IG coils, ecu, etc.
What about a 4 port per rotor renesis, 2 rotor renesis is 3 ports per rotor
2 end plates would be stock, and the 2 middle plates you'd fab up and have 4 circular intake holes in it and 1 exhaust port, since you are machineing so many parts, you might as well create a new 3-rotor-renesis with 12 ports that can rev even higher!, instead of using what mazda have, why not improve on its design, dont know if more port # is better tho
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im not entirely sure but I think the biggest advantage of the 6 port over the 4 port is that while In the low rev range the ports can stay smaller but they open up in the higher revs. More ports could mean a greater range of adjustment but the 6- port intake manifold is already kinda complex, additional ports would make it quite a peice to machine. ...although, I wouldn’t say impossible.
well I’m not sure who you’re actually addressing a reply to 14 years later, but even if you can afford it you’re still throwing your money into a hole, pouring gasoline on it, and then throwing a lit match on top.
the motto for every noob is this; try searching and reading more, posting less
well I’m not sure who you’re actually addressing a reply to 14 years later, but even if you can afford it you’re still throwing your money into a hole, pouring gasoline on it, and then throwing a lit match on top.
the motto for every noob is this; try searching and reading more, posting less
and looking at the last post date too
I was just trying to get people talking, my bad. I figured there might be other people with time on their hands that are interested in discussion. I’m not particularly interested in building it, myself but that’s not to say someone couldn’t. Rob Dahm just built an AWD 4 rotor from scratch in his garage. Maybe he had a good amount of money to throw into it, but he was still just some guy who likes cars. Every idea starts somewhere and I thought forums were the place to discuss different topics.
“A forum is a website where people can gather to have discussions about a specific topic.”
”a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.”
“An Internet forum, or message board, is an online discussion site where people can hold conversations in the form of posted messages.”
Clearly I’m in the wrong place so if possible I want to just deactivate this account.
RG...something you said that didn't make sense to a newb like me.
the more things change, the more they stay the same
go way back to my earlier post from way back then in this thread; if we had a fantasy forum as I suggested and this was in it, I wouldn’t have said a word.
QUOTE=WankeyYankey;4917193] Rob Dahm just built an AWD 4 rotor from scratch in his garage. Maybe he had a good amount of money to throw into it, but he was still just some guy who likes cars. [/QUOTE]
I think if you had a good look at what has gone into Rob's car it is far from "some guy building a 4 rotor in his garage"
He has had a lot of machine work and custom stuff done in that build... and it wasn't cheap. That's why he is Instafamous... the sponsors help pay the Bill's 😁
I was just trying to get people talking, my bad. I figured there might be other people with time on their hands that are interested in discussion. I’m not particularly interested in building it, myself but that’s not to say someone couldn’t. Rob Dahm just built an AWD 4 rotor from scratch in his garage. Maybe he had a good amount of money to throw into it, but he was still just some guy who likes cars. Every idea starts somewhere and I thought forums were the place to discuss different topics.
“A forum is a website where people can gather to have discussions about a specific topic.”
”a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.”
“An Internet forum, or message board, is an online discussion site where people can hold conversations in the form of posted messages.”
Clearly I’m in the wrong place so if possible I want to just deactivate this account.
im building a 3 rotor renesis at the moment.
it is possible and much cheaper than a 20b
just cut the baloney and make your sandwich already, building one has never been a question or the issue.
it will be cheaper in the sense that you won’t have to drop $10K+ USD for the current going price on a C or D series 20B engine, but it will never make anywhere near the output of one of those whether NA or Turbo.
imo it’s questionable that it will be as good or any better overall than a strong 6-port Renesis, but let’s see what you can do and then assess the cost vs gain,. Because you still have to perform all the extensive chassis, installation, and supporting mods to shoehorn it in and make it all work.
just cut the baloney and make your sandwich already, building one has never been a question or the issue.
it will be cheaper in the sense that you won’t have to drop $10K+ USD for the current going price on a C or D series 20B engine, but it will never make anywhere near the output of one of those whether NA or Turbo.
imo it’s questionable that it will be as good or any better overall than a strong 6-port Renesis, but let’s see what you can do and then assess the cost vs gain,. Because you still have to perform all the extensive chassis, installation, and supporting mods to shoehorn it in and make it all work.
If it were a 20B or pretty much any other swap a lot of those expenses would still be there, ultimately the only thing that would change is the actual machining/sourcing of all the parts as it’s obviously not a well supported engine in the aftermarket. They do sell short cranks for 3 rotors, like a 20b but two middle irons instead of one middle and a hybrid. If quality parts were used it should work, admittedly with limited power from the middle rotor. However the goal isn’t always peak power, obviously a 13B with the right parts and a nice tune can make great peak numbers, but the low end and torque on 2 rotors isn’t as easy to get. A third rotor, with the added displacement is probably the best way to get that.
look, this is an old pointless thread from way back in 2006 with no merit of any kind on the subject. So rather than continuing to noob-splain to me about all things rotary here, how about (and I’m going way out on limb asking this) using some common sense and go to the more appropriate thread in the more appropriate forum area to drivel on about it there instead?
That’s really what I was aiming at in the previous reply, because I don’t understand why Mr Small PP (snicker) feels like he needs to drag this out all over the forum rather than keeping it in thread where he started having this delusion of grandeur. Which the subject being at least 15+ years old and not being attempted by more savvy rotary experts than the subsequent full-dreamer brigade ought to be one clue on how this in no way is even within the same universe, let alone same solar system, as the Dahm awd 4-rotor car.
Instead it’s just people not understanding what they’re trying to do and it not making any sense other than to draw attention to their self. The popularity of which over on youboob and anti-social media in this age only proves how hopeless and excessively spoiled/privileged a large part of society is today. Having nothing better to do with their excessively crass consumption of both time and wastefulness.
look, this is an old pointless thread from way back in 2006 with no merit of any kind on the subject. So rather than continuing to noob-splain to me about all things rotary here, how about (and I’m going way out on limb asking this) using some common sense and go to the more appropriate thread in the more appropriate forum area to drivel on about it there instead?
That’s really what I was aiming at in the previous reply, because I don’t understand why Mr Small PP (snicker) feels like he needs to drag this out all over the forum rather than keeping it in thread where he started having this delusion of grandeur. Which the subject being at least 15+ years old and not being attempted by more savvy rotary experts than the subsequent full-dreamer brigade ought to be one clue on how this in no way is even within the same universe, let alone same solar system, as the Dahm awd 4-rotor car.
Instead it’s just people not understanding what they’re trying to do and it not making any sense other than to draw attention to their self. The popularity of which over on youboob and anti-social media in this age only proves how hopeless and excessively spoiled/privileged a large part of society is today. Having nothing better to do with their excessively crass consumption of both time and wastefulness.
maybe I’m going out on a limb here but maybe you could just carry on about your day and let people have a conversation without you insulting and putting people down for no reason whatsoever other than your annoyed that people aren’t listening to you? Maybe just don’t “noobsplain” to us “mr small pps”
Lmao everyone say “it’s cheaper and easier to just get a 20b” like they even exist for the people who can afford them, a 3 rotor is a rare find and beyond expensive, custom fab work, however, is a very common practice, the most difficult piece is simply the e-shaft and while yes a challenge, likely easier than finding a 20b that is still probably rusty as **** and buried in the entire front end of an old cosmo that you would need shipped in a container, so tbh I think I’d rather full send considering any car with a 3 rotor is going to be a dedicated money pit, project dream car anyway. Otherwise I’ll wait for someone to send a 20b swap kit I can buy online.
I never said that and am not aware of anyone else saying it either. Are you even reading my comments, or is there a comprehension issue, or just being intentionally dishonest? i pointed out the exact opposite about building it never being in question or the actual issue and also in reference to the cost difference of starting with a 20B as well. You’re just latest drop-in with typing fingers bigger than the big mouth they’re on the same body with who has contributed little to nothing more here than a pointlessly nonsensical argument.
Stealth is as welcome to his opinion as you are yours, but that allows me my opinion too. We’ll just have disagree on what makes a hobbyist. I don’t believe that you personally are serious about doing anything more than talking the talk, not even bothering to actually go search out, read, and be familiar with every related subject thread already here on this forum first before going full “rox0rz teh big 11!” like this is the Steam forum. Because you wouldn’t have bumped this particular thread, let alone continue to be incessantly rooted in it regurgitating some stuff you happened to read about somewhere else.
It’s clear that you don’t even comprehend the differences between the Renesis and prior 13B engines, which is where most people go wrong and cause more harm than good. So when you make statements like “making peak power is not always the end goal” it only demonstrates the obvious. Because you clearly don’t get what actually makes the Renesis do what it does and how difficult it will be to achieve that in the proposed 3-rotor configuration. However, all of this has been brought up and discussed in more relevant and recent threads that you haven’t bothered to make any effort becoming informed on in the least.
You’re not a puppy, just the latest grown dog that was never house trained running around doing your business all over the forum house. Don’t take it personal, you’re just not any more aware of how many others just like you who came here before you doing the same thing as yourself than you are on the actual subject being discussed.
I never said that and am not aware of anyone else saying it either. Are you even reading my comments, or is there a comprehension issue, or just being intentionally dishonest? i pointed out the exact opposite about building it never being in question or the actual issue and also in reference to the cost difference of starting with a 20B as well. You’re just latest drop-in with typing fingers bigger than the big mouth they’re on the same body with who has contributed little to nothing more here than a pointlessly nonsensical argument.
Stealth is as welcome to his opinion as you are yours, but that allows me my opinion too. We’ll just have disagree on what makes a hobbyist. I don’t believe that you personally are serious about doing anything more than talking the talk, not even bothering to actually go search out, read, and be familiar with every related subject thread already here on this forum first before going full “rox0rz teh big 11!” like this is the Steam forum. Because you wouldn’t have bumped this particular thread, let alone continue to be incessantly rooted in it regurgitating some stuff you happened to read about somewhere else.
It’s clear that you don’t even comprehend the differences between the Renesis and prior 13B engines, which is where most people go wrong and cause more harm than good. So when you make statements like “making peak power is not always the end goal” it only demonstrates the obvious. Because you clearly don’t get what actually makes the Renesis do what it does and how difficult it will be to achieve that in the proposed 3-rotor configuration. However, all of this has been brought up and discussed in more relevant and recent threads that you haven’t bothered to make any effort becoming informed on in the least.
You’re not a puppy, just the latest grown dog that was never house trained running around doing your business all over the forum house. Don’t take it personal, you’re just not any more aware of how many others just like you who came here before you doing the same thing as yourself than you are on the actual subject being discussed.
if it makes you feel any better I was actually referring to the meme sent by stealth, not anything from you specifically, however, if you look around it’s not an uncommon response when the 3 rotor subject has been suggested. Again I will further my stance that this is a FORUM, a place for discussion, or conversation. If you don’t wanna talk about then don’t, and let us do it in peace? I don’t remember anyone asking if it was smart, practical, or effective, it’s just a cool idea, no “fingers bigger than my mouth” making dumb claims like I’m gonna do it or some ****, and make over 1000hp, and if it helps you unbunch your g string, I have read this whole thread and another thread on “adding a third rotor” and I’m not sure how many threads there are on three rotors but they seemed to be the same thing, everyone saying it’s not worth considering. However same thing everyone says if you even mention a turbo on this forum, and everyone just says you don’t make a lot of power, you lose reliability and it’s expensive, as if these aren’t common obstacles in modifying cars. This is a hobby, something we do for fun, and I personally think challenges are fun. I mean honestly it’s just sad, how it almost seems like none of the older members on this forum want to spread knowledge or share ideas, just scare people away from a car with a dying audience. Honestly not even dying just dead.
QUOTE=WankeyYankey;4917193] Rob Dahm just built an AWD 4 rotor from scratch in his garage. Maybe he had a good amount of money to throw into it, but he was still just some guy who likes cars.
I think if you had a good look at what has gone into Rob's car it is far from "some guy building a 4 rotor in his garage"
He has had a lot of machine work and custom stuff done in that build... and it wasn't cheap. That's why he is Instafamous... the sponsors help pay the Bill's 😁[/QUOTE]
on a side note, I’ve watched rob dahms entire series, yes lmao I’m aware he’s got quite a bit more capital to work with than most 😂 and his build is of course beyond reality, but my point is he’s not like some billion dollar racing company with 100s of crew members and billion dollar oil companies throwing all kinds of experts and development into it, he’s one guy with an idea and the will/want to make it happen. People said he was stupid/crazy too just sayin.
So, even Rob Dahm bulit a 3 rotor but not a 3 rotor Renesis. That must tell you something.
As far as the old members scaring away new people, I don't agree. A handful of old members are keeping this and the rx7club alive. People come and go, but those few persist. And along with their help and input, we can try to keep our rotaries going. It is indeed a dying breed. So let's savor and honor what we have. Anyway be well everybody.
03-02-2006, 03:34 PM
