wsgator

iTrader: (3)

Has anyone seen the series 2 oiling system installed in a series 1 car? I am attempting to swap a 2009 engine into a 2004 car. So far the oiling system seems to be my only challenge. There are 2 pumps in the series 2, 1 for the outer 2 oil injectors on each rotor and 1 for the center oil injectors. I'm not sure of the power requirement differences and efficiency difference of the S1 and S2 oil injector pumps to know if I could just adapt the S1 wiring to the S2 pumps.
Does anyone have any data that my help me with this?

Harlan

iTrader: (3)

You would need a conversion box that takes the servo input to the S1 OMP and turns it into a PWM input to the S2 valves. It should be possible, but you need some electronics know-how and a S1 and S2 rx8 side by side to take readings on. Maybe one of the Vendors will take it and run with it.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Are you using a series 2 ECU and engine wiring loom ?

paimon.soror

iTrader: (15)

^ ... pretty much every electronic on the interior would need to change as well since the S2 leverages its information heavily off of the canbus whereas S1 components didn't ... IE the radio, AC, cluster, etc.

Harlan

iTrader: (3)

Why not just make an adapter and use the S1 ECU. It will be simpler in the long run. Just need to get readings and have a little know how. Adapting the S2 harness/ECU to a S1 seems about as tough as a non rotor engine swap.

wsgator

iTrader: (3)

I plan on using the S1 wiring harness with the S1 ECU. So far everything else looks to use the same connections, it's just the oiling system that is the problem. Each oil pump uses a 2 wire plug for the power connector and a 3 wire plug for the sensor. So, I do think an adapter can be made, I just need to figure the wiring diagrams. By what I can see so far, the rest of the parts are pretty much the same as to the components and connectors.

ShellDude

iTrader: (12)

If the S2 sensor is the same as the S1 one then the middle wire is ignored.

Harlan

iTrader: (3)

I don't believe the S2 has a real OMP, they use PWM solenoid valves and oil pump pressure, so the whole system is different.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

What about the fuel injectors

wsgator

iTrader: (3)

Just in case some of you were interested, I took some pictures of the oiling system. One is the top view, one is of the injectors (notice there are no vacuum hoses on them) and one is of the supply end on the timing cover.

wsgator

iTrader: (3)

Olddragger's got a point, there are 4 injectors across the main fuel rail on the S1 and only 2 on the S2. Maybe I can swap intakes to keep the same injector count.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Aye-yai-yai

Recommending a conversion box when you have no idea how the S2 software is configured is rich, never mind that the entire electro-mechanical configuration and design is entirely different. Yeah, no problem ...

Harlan

iTrader: (3)

Sure, but if your set on doing the conversion it still makes more sense then rewiring a s1 to make the s2 ecu work.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

OMP can always be ditched and run premix instead - I'm more interested to hear how the OP plans to handle fuelling .................

ShellDude

iTrader: (12)

Leave the P2 leads disconnected? I'm more interested in how he'd tune it lol.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

egzachary!

ASH8

OP, I am intrigued and trying to understand why you even considered doing this as I have posted so
much information about the changes in the Oiling Systems and Engines between Series 1 and Series 2.
Or who told you that this can easily be done.?

Yes, internally, engines are basically identical, Rotors, E shaft, Seals, etc,..

However the Oiling System and main engine Oil Pump and oil pressure are all new and never used on any
production rotary before, as are the EMOP’s.

For the Oiling System, not only are there software differences, but main wiring and ‘real’ mechanical (hardware changes).

NONE, repeat NONE of these components below are the same as Series 1.
None of the existing Series 1 software or wiring will make the S2 system work...none.

1. The S2 specific ECU which also operates the two all new Electronic Metering Oil Pumps (EMOP’s).
2. A small EMOP driver device (hardware) which it attached externally on the Air Pump bracket.
3. Main Engine Oil Pressure Switch located on #1 EMOP.
4. OCV (Oil Control Valve), located on and in front Timing Cover, also controls oil direction directly from all new Oil Pump
which supplies EMOP’s via OCV and also OCV controls cleaning modes (EMOP oil flushing and oil injector line cleaning).
5. In and out of Oil Cooler lines attaches directly onto front Timing Cover and oil out attaches directly into the new Oil Pump
Body under front timing cover.
6. None of the 2x Oil Coolers or 6x Oil Cooler Lines are the same as Series 1, Series 2’s are a larger diameter and different couplings..

1, 2, 4 hardware has never been used before.

So, as mentioned, apart from changing ALL of the engine Wiring Harnesses, plus main interior harnesses, I fail to
see how you are going to get this all to work as Mazda intended?..

I do wish you well..

Edit:, BTW as I said also take a look @ your S1 Oil Cooler feeder pipes or lines and confirm how are you going to connect
them to the Series 2 in/out holes on your S2 Timing Cover.

wsgator

iTrader: (3)

I lost an apex seal in my original motor. I had purchased a 2009 RX-8 with 16K miles on it for the transmission (my second gear syncro went bad) and sell off what I don't need. So, now that my 2004 motor has gone bad, I was just trying to find a way to use the motor I already have and maybe use what improvements I possibly can. It's looks as though I will just use the engine short block and retain all 2004 components. I posted here since I couldn't find anything that stated it was not at all possible to do so. So, I have now received the information that I was looking for and I thank you all for your help.
And, I still have parts for sale. I will bump my for sale thread to make it easier to find if any of you are interested.

paimon.soror

iTrader: (15)

if you end up tearing that 09 motor open, you could serve a benefit to us by posting pictures of the rotors and their wear conditions. The S2 rotors have a special coating on them to help reduce the buildup of carbon..... granted 16K is not that many miles, it might give us an idea on if that layer of crap is actually doing something or not.

ASH8

You will still need to change over your front Timing Cover, plus, this is a big one, the front black Iron is also different (as are the other two), so you will have to dismantle the engine, to change them over, you could try and use the S2 front Iron, but, 2004 Oil Pump will not fit.
Also changes to E-shaft Pulley, no drive for 2004 MOP on an S2 Engine.
Then you have a different Fuel Runner..

It really is all a mess to even attempt this.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

You want to sell the diff out of the 09?

wsgator

iTrader: (3)

I do have the rear differential assembly for sale, I'm asking $1100 shipped to the US48.
Message me if you are interested.

Walter

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

I am afraid I will have to pass on it--but thanks for the answer and good luck on your project. Its gets to be really fun doesnt it? lol.