akrx8

well guys,got some real world track times today and ill post my best 3.

reac. .516
60ft. 2.407
330ft. 6.525
1/8th et 9.914
1/8th mph 72.80
1/4 et 15.277
mph. 90.38

just a note on this,car at 1350 miles,1/2 tank of fuel and launchs at or around 6000 rpms.this was the best of the day for me and beat the wrx next to me barely.also the tires spun all the way thru second and experinced tire hop all thru second gear.imo this car will get the mag tested results with TRACTION.to get this time i did lower psi in tires to 26 and it helped.i know these are not the times we were hoping for but i think in stock trim with hooking up a bit better that 14.5 is realstic. heres 2 more for comparison.

reac. .536.
60ft. 2.305.
330ft 6.495.
1/8 et 9.920.
1/8mph 72.10.
1/4 et 15.333.
1/4mph 89.65


reac .560
60ft 2.253
330ft 6.406
1/8et 9.878
1/8mph 70.98
1/4et 15.404
1/4mph 88.06

AnthonyS

Well I just looked up some numbers from the C&D comparo to the Mustang and Infiniti G35. I've been lusting over the new RX for a long time. My dealer has two that they've had for a month now, and they call me weekly to come buy one. I would love to, but I'm a full time graduate school student and my wife is a full time undergrad student and we have a 4 year old son.

My degree is in engineering, and I should have a master's by next June.

Anyway, the preproduction test car ran 14.5 @ 96. Your car ran low 15s @ 90. Trap speed is actually the best indicator of horsepower. Now lets say that your car is capable of 92 in the 1/4 mile with some practice driving. It is still short a few ponies over the preproduction model.

For reference, my wife's 6 speed 180 hp turbo Beetle runs 91 in the 1/4 mile. It's only been down the strip 7 times to date. I think with practice it might run even better.

If you use the old equation from the Racer's Math handbook based on weight and trap speed (assuming 3250 lbs race weight for your RX-8 plus you), you end up with 188 hp. This equation is usually fairly accurate for flywheel hp. My wife's Beetle weighs a little more, is rated at 180 hp, and goes just as fast at the end of the 1/4 mile. Because its wrong wheel drive it stinks on the launch. If we assume your car could hit 92 mph in the 1/4, then that makes it 198 hp.

Now before someone flames me for being anti-Mazda, I have a very nice '92 Miata. My family has owned Mazdas since before it was cool.

I know my father owned well over 10 RX-2s and RX-3s over time. We owned 1 RX-5 Cosmo, one '79 RX-7, one '82 RX-7, the first '87 RX-7 turbo II off the containership from Japan, and dad's company did some durability testing on the first 3rd gen RX-7 preproduction model (the silver one in the Yamaguchi book). I've been around these cars all my life and love them.

I can remember Mazda claiming the new rotary would be just as powerful as the old 13B-REW in the 3rd gen RX-7. Well it seems they fell short.

I also watched the Best Motoring July video from this site, where the 250 hp Japanese WRX and 240 hp S2000 passed the RX-8 with ease on a fairly short straight away. It appears some of the ponies are out grazing in the pasture.

I also read the SCC article where the last set of intake port butterfly valves were sticking. I wonder if this is the issue with all of the new RX-8s. It would cause a serious loss in power. The only way to know for sure would be to measrue the voltage to the wires that operate the solenoids while on a dyno. I'm willing to bet no one has done this including your local Mazda techs. If they reflashed the PROMs when the dropped the cars off, they could've screwed up the circuitry or control signal to those last two intake ports. If this is how they met emissions, then power would be way down...... Just a thought.

racerdave

Well, my butt dyno says you're extrapolated numbers might not be far off. I was expecting more in the power dept. The stock 3-gen twin-turbo with approximately the same "claimed" power felt awesome fast. Not the RX8.

I hope they clear the power issue up (as in fix it, not just admit it) because it's otherwise a superb car to drive.

AnthonyS

The 3rd gen RX-7 didn't have a lot more power on the stock dyno graphs I've seen. It did have a huge weight advantage, and more torque in the midrange though. Torque always makes a car feel faster even if it isn't. A stock 5.0 Mustang isn't very fast, but it sure feels fast thanks to 300 ft-lb of torque at low rpm.

I used to own a '97 Ford Mustang Cobra. I said it was down on power compared to what was claimed too, but no one listened. Those cars regularly dynoed at 260 to the wheels and were rated at 305. The numbers put it closer to 295. The '99s were rated at 320 and were putting the same 260 to the tires. That's when Ford had their power fiasco. The reburned the ECUs in the cars, replaced the exhaust system and installed extrude honed manifolds under silent recall.

I think it is interesting that in the past 5 years, Ford and Mazda are the only ones to have this problem. Maybe they need some butthole engineer like myself to go work for them. The SAE standard for measuring hp is pretty simple really. I think the problem lies in the fact that the testing is being conducted to early in the development process. As the emissions issues are ironed out, power drops, but the ratings don't get revised. The SAE standard clearly states that production engines as used in the car should be tested including the factory air intake, exhaust system, computer etc.

My local dealer won't let me drive the 8 yet, since I said I can't buy one for a year until I finish grad school . Never mind the two they have are sitting collecting dirt and permanently flat spotting the tires.

RedRX

If my memory is correct, stock 3rd gens typically put 220-225 hp to the wheels; this is significantly more power than the RX8's 175-185.

You are, of course, correct about traps being a good indicator of hp. Using the formula I'm familiar with, I estimate that akrx8's car made about 175 RWHP at the strip.

IMO, Mazda has two choices vis-a-vis the RX-8: 1) find some additional hp, either through increased displacement, forced induction, or a fix to the current renesis; or 2) throw in the towel.

A $30K Mazda that makes a legitimate 215 FWHP is a tough sell with the excellent competition in that price range, not to mention competition from numerous lower-priced cars capable of 90 mph traps.

As an owner of Mazdas for the past 11 years, including a rotary-powered vehicle, this whole situation sickens me.

FWIW,
-Dave

canzoomer

Nissan has pulled this crap too.
I sold my SE-R Spec V back in June.

When released back in November 2001 it was claimed to have 185HP.

Then, after a few people dyno'ed them and got 143HP at the wheels a very similar discussion happened on the Nissan forums.
In the following spring Nissan dropped the claim to 180HP.
That is still high, as this would be a 20.5% driveline loss and the concensus of the Nissan owners was that this is not realistic.


There was still pressure on them, and this summer they issued a recall notice to retune the ECU and to change out part of the exhaust.

Apparently if I buy a car it is going to haveless power than claimed..

I got the recall notice about a month after I sold my Spec V.
Just my luck.

Gord96BRG

Damn you, it's YOUR fault!

Quote:

I got the recall notice about a month after I sold my Spec V.
Just my luck.

Unfortunately, it seems that since it's your fault to start with, your obligation to humanity and all your fellow RX-8 owners is to sell your RX-8 as quickly as possible (or take the buy-back). Then the rest of us can expect a HP fix a month later! :p

Regards,
Gordon

canzoomer

That is apparently the case.
Although, in my defense, I did not buy a nav package, and they are screwed up too:
More good news.. ( some sarcasm here)
A friend has had an RX-8 on order and he gets it tomorrow.
He ordered with the NAV package.
Today his dealer called him, and they were trying to set it up, and discovered that there are no maps for it for anywhere in Alberta north of Red Deer. As we are in Edmonton, this makes it a rather useless $3,000 conversation piece.
What Mazda is apparently saying about this:

1) They claim they will have maps for the area "in about 6 months"

2) They are offering some compensation:
He may buy $1,000 worth of accessories at "dealer cost".
So, basically a $350 credit on the purchase of accessories..

He asked if he could change his mind and decline the NAV package. The dealer informed him that if he did so he would have to wait for another car, maybe until next year.

This is a little frustrating to my friend, as he ordered his car in 2001!! Probably one of the first ever ordered, right after Mazda first announced the plans to make the car.

I suggested to my friend that he take the car, and start shopping for another and at least drive it for a month for free, then return it to Mazda on the horsepower buy back offer.

zoom44

remember to tell your freind that mazda canada has not yet offered a buyback. unless i missed some announcement or other then just ignore me

Dazz

Over here in Australia the RX-8 has only been on sale for about a month.

Wheels magazine tested one and achieved these figures.

0-60km/h (37.3mph) 3.1
0-80km/h (49.7mph) 4.8
0-100km/h (62.1mph) 6.4
0-120km/h (74.6mph) 9.1
0-140km/h (87mph) 12.0
0-160km/h (99.4mph) 15.7

400m 14.8 @ 155km/h (96.3mph)

Mazda revised the HP rating to 177kW (237hp) a while before it was released here due to having to meet slightly different emmision requirements in upcoming years, and rather than reduce the HP figure later on, brought it forward.