spr grn8

I plan on downloading them tomorrow. Wish me luck.

my10ae

Hi all:

Did some tuning Friday nite and found some more power. I adjusted the timing in the 4K column and all is responding well. I tried adjusting the timing below 4K but it just makes the car idle rough and I "feel" no improvements. No rough idling since adjusting the timing 5 degrees from 3.10 to 4.50 volts and moving the timing to 4 degree's from 2.15 to 2.85 volts. No pinging and power comes on very strong once hitting 4000 RPM.

Next step is to adjust the timing for the 4500 RPM range and then on to the 5000 RPM range. Peak torque is at 5000 RPM (for the auto's) so I'm hoping to try to get the most power in that RPM range.

I will keep all posted...

Spr grn8: How did you make out doing your tuning?

Xyntax

Can I suggest something? Since I have been playing with below 4K on my CZ, I have some experience as to what gives power and what gives rough idling. Anything below 3750 rpm, do not adjust the ignition. If you look at your Canscan logs on the ignition part, you will see that the lines go up and down in the closed loop area. As soon as your car runs above for open loop, the ignition lines start becoming more linear and sometimes straight for a certain range.

Here's why I think ignition should never be messed with in the close loop area:
That is how the ECU manages the adjustments based on the AFR readings it gets. Ignition is advanced if AFR is below 14.7 and retarded if above 14.7

So, what I did is adjusted the airflow readings for the closed loop area. Over the course of experimenting for 3 months, I found the threshold for my airflow adjustments without causing an abnormal compensation from the ECU's side.
1% adjustment gives it a leaner mix, not much difference except your exhaust notes gets throatier and meaner.
2% adjustment gives a good push in the lower revs. Very noticeable expecially when you suddenly step on it from 2500 rpms. Saved gas too.
3% adjustment gives inconsistent performance. It feels like 1% and I wound up losing gas mileage.

So what happened there? Well, it seems like I was confusing the ECU too much. I made it think it was getting lesser air than it was, so it was giving less fuel to the mix making it leaner. By the time the mix is converted into energy and gets sent to the 02 sensor, it gives an abnormally lean reading. I was getting as much as 15 - 16 AFR sometimes. And so it dumps more fuel the next mix comes.

1% - 2% adjustment doesn't give this kind of confusion for my car. Other cars may have different threshold for closed loop airflow adjustments. Just do what I did and keep the gas consistent through out. I used Chevron 91 at the same pump every time.

This adjustment was done for the whole column, that means 0 - 100 throttle. Yep, idle too :D

PS. I have a 6-speed M/T. Someone contacted me about tuning CZ for Auto, sorry I can't help you with that. I'll chime in here with whatever I can. Good luck to you A/T's!

spr grn8

Sounds good Kevin, I was planning on installing the hardware and downloading maps this last weekend as the canscan and cables were supposed to be here friday at the latest. Its been over two weeks, But nothing showed up friday or saturday! I talked to canzoomer and they say it was sent "regular mail" but even by regular mail it should have been here already.. Funny thing tho the invoice sent by "regular mail" arrived already!

canzoomer

What can i say? screwups happen.
Packages by regular mail take anywahere from 3 days to 3 weeks, usually at around 10 days.
Letters take about a week, pretty consistently. Different sorting as letters do not go through customs.
BTW, the CANSCAN was sent within the US by Express Post, and looking at the tracking I think it got "stuck" or lost. We sent out a new CANSCAN today by Express Post ( the other one was insured) and a new cable will go by Fedex tomorrow, on my nickle.

We send the separate letter for the invoice and credit card slip for credit card orders as some people have issues when others open packages and get their hands on credit card slips, not to mention the odd p*ed off wife..

canzoomer

I really appreciate that some of you are taking the time to do this with the auto transmission version.

I am not able to as I simply do not have access to an AT to test on.

Some things to consider:
As you have seen, when you tune in closed loop mode, the ECU "adjusts" defeating your work, over some time.

There are ways to work around it, like clearing the ECU with the battery ground trick.
I do not think the "Mode 1 and Mode3" tricks help, unless you do not want to disconnect the battery, and doing the the accompanying stuff like setting steering cal for traction control, clock, radio station tuning settings.

Some guidelines:
1) If you tune the car in the sections where it runs "closed loop" it will fight you.
Closed loop is when the car reads the O2 sensor and dynamically adjusts timing and AFR to maintain 14.7:1 AFR and "safe" timing.
2) Open loop happens above a certain rpm, and throttle postiion.
On a 6MT this happens above 70% throttle, and above certain rpms.
The rpm cut point is not consistent across the gears.
In 1st it makes the transition at about 6,200rpm
In 2nd this happens at 5,500
In 3rd and up it happens at 4,800
So, if you tune in 3rd, and all looks good, but you go below 200rpm, then a few hard runs in 1st gear will cause the ECU to adjust it's long term fule trim richer by about 5+% and it defeats the tuning.
This is the cause of frustration to so many who say the unit does not work.
I do not know from hands on where the AT uses for the cutoffs as I have only tested on my and other MT cars.

My advice:
Tune above 6,200
If you want to tune above 5,500 avoid full throttle runs in 1st gear.
Install a replacement bettery ground post that has the 1/4 turn **** to disconnect, as this makes clearing the ECU trims easier.
In about a month Dan Harrirson and I intend to sell a newer CANSCAN RX-8 unit that allows one to set some ECU map tweaks and load/save maps from the ECU.
We are mainy aiming at:
Clearing fuel trims
Adjusting idle up to around 1,000rpm ( removing the RX-8's characteristic rough idle)
Adjusting the redline cutoff to 10,500
Eventually we hope to decode enough of the PIDs ( data areas on the ROM) to be able to allow you to have customized ECU maps.
Of cpurse, before you go to the dealer you will have to restore to stock ort the diagnostics WILL be pissed off.

As far as advance goes, a couple of degrees belwo 6,000rpm is OK, and saves some fuel, but too much and the ECU compensates it's trims.
Always put zeros in the first column as the setting in that column works down as well as up!

When the good weather returns to Alberta I will be able to get some decent tuning time in again and make some more maps. I find that maps done at cold temps make great power in cold temps.
But they are not right for warm weather.
The air is so much denser and the car has thermal sensors, and it will not ping when the air is cold whereaas it will in warm air.

Enough rambling for today..

Speed Racer

Maurice,

As always, thanks for sharing your insight on the unit!

P.S. One of these days I'll get around to sending back my original CZ unit to get it updated to the latest daughter board. I just have a hard time living without it for that long. :p

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

is it going to be possible to update the old CZ Canscans when the new version comes out?

my10ae

Spr Grn8:

How did you make out with your auto tuning?

Just curious...

Diabolical RX8

All I can say is that you guys are my heros.

I think its awsome yall have got the AT RX8 to get the tires loose in 2nd gear

I can get mine to do it if I am in Tiptronic mode and let off the gas shift to 2nd and gas it. It gives me a little slip on my back tires. But nothing big Really fun to do in parking lots when its wet too

But I will be checking back on this thread to get my daily or weekly dose of an RX8 *cargasm* yeah thats right, an orgasm over a car

Anyways I g2g. Cya

HiTMaNN

This is really a break through from my prespective. I have been waiting for some boost for my car. People just don't want to invest their time and money in the a/t cars I know maurice would but he just does not have one at his disposal. I am just waiting till all the testing is done so I myself can purchase a CZ unit seeing they are a canadian company and I have purcahsed things from them in the past and they have been real fast and friendly and it only costs me 7.5 cents per minute to call them if i feel like boring them with my questions . Just had a quick question will having a exhuast or intake installed on your car make the way the unit works on your car different. I mean like say you post the A/T maps after its all done does it have tobe altered to compensate for the intake and the exhuast being on the car or is that irrelavant? I'm sorry if you think that is a dumb questions but its just a question that i had burning me and I hope someone can address it.

Speed Racer

Unfortunately the CZ really is not a true plug & play device and it seems like a fair number of cars will need some minor tweaking of the maps regardless of what mods have been installed.

Speed Racer

We will be doing a little more fine tuning this Sunday on my10ae's car. When I looked at his last datalog the numbers looked solid and were very repeatable. The car is running a little rich and there is still room for improvement.

I've also been talking with spr grn8 and he has recently sent me a few baseline datalogs. His numbers are quite abit different from what we have seen from my10ae. Before we go any further we just need to make sure that we are comparing apples to apples. Hopefully we can get the differences sorted out and get another tuning project going.

HiTMaNN

Once you guys get i working out in a few weeks i will purchase a used unit i got a laptop and get a canscan thanks again guys

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

PM me when you get a CZ..you can use my canscan if you want

DreRX8

any new developments?

Speed Racer

The maps continue to be steady and we made a few more tweaks to try to lean out 6-7.5k RPMs. Right now we have a 35% change in the map but the A/F is still rich and hovering around 11.5. So we still have room for improvement but it feels like a solid base map.

DreRX8

excellent--how much power or how much faster would you guess the car is?

JeRKy 8 Owner

Someone reallyshould get a stock automatic on the dyno for us so we can see what were really putting down to the wheels. Id like to know exactly how much power theyve made when theyre done.

spr grn8

Thanks to SpeedRacer and My10ae, I was able to load a base map to my Rx8 yesterday. I made a few data logs but haven't ran any comparisions yet. I will do that later today and try to get a chart out to compare stock runs to the runs with the adjustments made. What I noticed (my girlfriend even commented) is that it sounded smoother across board, from gear to gear. More power/response in all gears. I know in the lower rpm range no changes were made, so i was trying to get in the higher rpm's before shifting to evaluate performance. I notice that i would be at a lower rpm to acheive the certain speed than before, i.e before adjustments 3700 at 80mph, now 3300 at 80 mph. Overall it seemed you could tell it was running leaner, if that is possible, but thats the best way to describe it. It will be intersting to see if having leaner settings will aid in gas mileage. That is something i will monitor this week also. I wasn't expecting some huge jump in Hp or low end torque, but a good way to describe what i got is to say there is a more polished increase in performace in all aspects.

Speed Racer

Sounds good! When you get a chance, send me a couple of data logs and we'll see where we can continue to improve things.

mikeb

keep it going guys

I would love this mod on my 8

snizzle

me too, i'm chomping @the bit to get one of these things... keep it up!

Speed Racer

Update: spr grn8 updated his CZ unit (full RPM mode) this weekend to make tuning a little easier. This last change matches my10ae's setup and he can now use the same maps. So we plan to collaborate on any changes to the maps.

If anyone else wants to join the fun. Let me know and we'll get you setup with a base map and I'll try to walk you through the steps of collecting data and making any necessary changes to the maps. You'll need a CZ unit (preferably one with the internal on/off switch and setup to run in full RPM mode), CANscan, Greddy eManage Support tool w/ USB cable, and USB extension cable.

pimpindarx8

where do u suggest purchasing these things?