mikeb

I am real glad this is under way
i tried to get this started on a AT car months ago

thanks man

my10ae

No problem Mikeb. I've waited almost a year for Maurice to work on this. So I finally bit the bullet, bought a used CZ unit, laptop, and a CANscan unit. Working with Speed Racer to do some tunage on my auto. We had some setbacks, but look forward to getting back to tuning on Feb 6th :D

my10ae

UPDATE...

Speed Racer and I did some more tuning today. We did 18 runs and found that we tripped the fuel trim 3 times. Before we continued tuning, we performed Drive Modes 1 and 3 within TSB "Engine Crank No Start". This was to be sure that the ECU was back to "normal" specs.

Speed racer adjusted the A/F ratio from 5800 RPM (Speed Racer, if I'm not relaying the numbers correctly please let me know) to redline. After a week of driving the car, the fuel trim tripped and all the work we did was overwritten but the OEM maps. We went a little more conservative with the adjustments this time. There are still a few "bumps" in the RPM range we can adjust, but we want to make sure the maps are still being utilized a week from now. If the maps still look good next Sunday, we will try to adjust for those bumps.

We also adjusted the ignition timing. Biggest timing advance was 8 degree's. Speed Racer adjusted from 3500 RPM's to approx 5800 RPM's. The advance in timing was really felt between 3800 and 5500 RPM's. The car now has some really nice pull within those RPM ranges. I was actually breaking loose from a dead stop into 2nd cruising around today (granted I have snow tires on, but I could not do this before we made the change) Pull feels very strong in the lower to mid-range and the A/F is helping in the higher RPM's to redline.

I am hopeing these adjustments keep as the car has a completely different feel to it in regards to pull. I might even go out on a limb an say we added maybe 15-20HP with today's tuning. Again, nothing is factual as far as HP goes, but the pull in the low to mid-range can significantly be felt.

More updates next weekend on whether or not the maps stay or get overwritten. I am keeping my fingers crossed.


Speed Racer will be posting up a graph of today's results soon.

Speed Racer

my10ae and I spent the day tuning his auto. This time around we did things a little differently. We started out by disconnecting the battery to clear the ECU and the long term fuel trim. The we did the PCM Adaptive Memory Produce Drive Mode 1 and 3.

Mode 1

1. Start the engine and warm it up completely.
2. Verify that all accessory loads are off. (A/C, headlights, blower fan, defroster, radio)
3. Verify initial ignition timing and idle speed are within spec.
4. Run engine at 2500-3500 RPM with no load for 15+ seconds.
5. Run engine at 4500-5000 RPM with no load for 15+ seconds.
6. Idle the engine for 60+ seconds after the cooling fan has stopped.
7. Turn off ignition switch.

Mode 3

1. Perform Mode 1 first.
2. Verify that all accessory loads are off. (A/C, headlights, blower fan, defroster, radio)
3. Drive vehicle at any speed for 5+ minutes.
4. Drive at 55+ MPH for 1 minute.
5. Drive 45-55 MPH for 3 minutes.

Once that was done we did another baseline run and looked for the areas which were running extremely rich (A/F of 11.1 at 4800+ RPMs). Our first maps of the day started with a 3% adjustment at 4800+ RPMs for 90-100% throttle. The following run went to 6% and the A/F ratios looked great through 6300 RPMs. The third run we increased 6300+ to 9% but noticed that the A/F was still out of range at 11.1. On the fourth run we increased 6300+ to 12% and that tripped a long term fuel trim. Which in turn caused the A/F to drop to 11.1 from 5600+ RPMs. On the fifth run we left things alone and noticed that the A/F dropped to 11.1 from 4800+ RPMs.

At that point we started over by clearing the ECU and did the mode 1 and 3 again. This time we started our changes at 5400 RPMs to try to stay clear of any closed loop interactions. After several runs the long term fuel trim reoccured and the A/F ratios started to drop back down to 11.1. We also noticed that 5800+ RPMs was running rich but not falling off the scale.

We started over again and this time the changes started at 5800 RPMs and we used our previous adjustment values for that range. We stopped tuning the A/F when we got it into the 12-13 range. We will leave it like this for a few days and see if it remains stable.

The final adjustments for today look like this:
5800-0, 6100-10, 6200-12, 6500-12, 6600-22, 6800-22, 7000-25, 7200-25, 7400-22

After that we focused our attention on the ignition map. Our plan was to gradually increase the timing so that we would reach 30 degrees of advance at peak engine torque. Then hold the 30 degree advance until redline. This made a noticeable difference in power once we hit 4000 RPMs. Let me put it this way, my10ae was having a little too much fun with spinning the rear wheels every chance he got. :D

Ignition map:
500-0, 1000-3, 1500-3, 2000-3, 2500-3, 3000-3, 3500-4, 4000-4, 4500-6, 5000-8, 5500-8, 6000-6, 6500-5, 7000-4, 7500-2, 8000-0

Speed Racer

my10ae,

I guess you beat me to the post.

Do me a favor and keep track of how the car feels. If you find any problems areas we can focus on them next weekend.

JeRKy 8 Owner

Youre actually spinning thetire now my10ae? Hah! Onlyway I couldever peel out before in my automatic was via neutral slam.

DreRX8

This is good news--hopefully you guys have more success. I don't know how I could even begin to tune mine since each RX8 seems to respond differently.

my10ae

1st day notes...

I had to zero out the timing advance from 500-3500 RPM's. Car is very sluggish and underpowered this am on the ride in to work. With the advice from Speed Racer, I zero'd out the map from 500-3500 RPM's and went for a few test rides. Car no longer feels sluggish from 850 to 3500 RPM.

I'm not sure if advancing the timing 3 degrees in this RPM range caused the issue, but now that they are back to zero, all is working great. I do feel a slight "hesitation" when in 4th gear at approx. 71mph and at 3400RPM's. When I try to accelerate, there is slight hesitation to approx. 3600RPM and then the car has power. Speed Racer and I will review this small issue on Sunday.

That's all for now. I will post up if anything else changes as for as the maps go that we tuned yesterday.

my10ae

2nd day notes....

On the advise of SR, I zeroed out the 3000 to 3500 RPM range. This helped the sluggishness of running in 4th gear at 71mph. the mid-range punch is still there around 4000+. All timing advance we did this past Sunday from 500 to 3500 is all back to stock. We will try to dial back in some timing this Sunday when we do some more tweaking.

That's all for now. Maps still seem to be in full function mode!

Speed Racer

I asked my10ae to zero out the maps as I'd rather play it safe until I have a chance to look at a few more data logs.

The ignition map on the CZ unit is setup to look at the MAF voltage and the RPM. As of right now we have the changes set only by the RPM. To do it right we will need to do a lot of data logging under different conditions (partial/full throttle, varying weather conditions, different gears, etc...). This will give us a better idea of how the stock ECU adjusts the timing in these conditions and then we can make the proper adjustments from there.

JeRKy 8 Owner

So the automatics computer keeps hampering your progress?

my10ae

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeRKy 8 Owner

So the automatics computer keeps hampering your progress?

I wouldn't say hampering, I would say we are learning the in's and out's of the auto ECU. Since no one has done any tuning like we have for the automatics, its a learning process. We tune and tweak a little here and there, see how the ECU/car reacts and then make the appropriate changes.

We will continue to make some adjustments this Sunday regarding timing. We will also check the A/F maps we have adjusted to make sure they are still being utilized by the ECU.

As far as I can tell, the ignition and A/F maps are still in place and being used between the CZ unit and ECU. We've come a short distance in regards to tuning, but at least we have found out for ourselves that the CZ unit does indeed work with the automatics and now its just a matter to tuning to our hearts content! :D

Speed Racer

Good reply.

Now that we've got the "easy" part done. We need to spend some serious time collecting data under different conditions to fine tune the maps. This will allow us to get as much power as possible without causing the ECU to compensate or the engine to ping. All of that work is wearing me out just thinking about it.

spr grn8

You guys are doing a great job, there are alot of other RX-8 drivers that aren't as technical as you are, but really appreciate the pioneering you are acheiving with the Auto RX-8. You may be doing all this for personal satisfaction and not fame or recognition but sometimes you have to take the good with the good. Kudos!

my10ae

Thanks Spr grn8. Speed Racer and I are not doing it for the recoginition and fame, we are doing it to help out fellow auto 8 owners to get more HP out of our cars

Thanks for the good words

JeRKy 8 Owner

All Im saying is that as soon as you guys figure out how to get optimal maps that remain consistent and stable w/the ECU - Iwill be ordering the unit for mine. I just hope my old automatic 8 (manufactured back in June 03) doesnt require completely different tuning. As far asIm concerned youre my heroes. :p

my10ae

More updates... (Speed, please post up if I miss something)


Speed Racer and I got together again this past Sunday and verified my maps are holding. Maps look good as we didn't trip the fuel trim. We did a few tweaks to the timing from 3000 to 3500 rpm. Since I had an issue with hesitation last Monday with the advance at 3 degrees, I changed it to 0 from 3000 to 3500 rpm for drivability reasons. Changed timing to 1 degree advance from 3000 to 3500 rpm and still had hesitation on the way home from Speed's house. Changed the maps back to 0.

I am going to do a bunch of logging this week under all kinds of conditions and speeds. The object is to adjust the timing in regards to the MAF voltage. I am still getting a hesitation at approx. 3100 rpm in 4th gear at 71mph at 1 degree of advance. (not taking in consideration of the voltage of the MAF). Hopefully the logs will show where we can change the timing where it is needed and to keep drivability in the higher gears and speed.

Still more tuning to come but things are going well. As I stated in another post, this tuning is a slow learning process. We are slowly making progress and will keep all posted. :D

Speed Racer

That sounds like a fair description of the work we did on Sunday.

We have a solid base map. Now it is time to do a lot of data logging and a little tweaking to make it perfect.

So are you still able to spin the wheels in second gear?

spr grn8

Thought I'd check in and see how your doing Kevin. Hope all is well. How's the weather?

my10ae

Hey guys:


Sorry, I took the weekend off this past Sunday. Being Valentine's Day weekend, I spent time with the wife. I will be doing some adjustments with timing in the lower RPM range this week. Will bump up the timing from the 1900 to 3500 range. We'll see if I run in to any pinging/hesitation.

I will keep all posted.

mikeb

sounds good thanks

spr grn8

Well at least you have your priorities in order Kevin. You might drive your temptress
during the day, but you get to lie down with your wife at night. Good on ya.!

spr grn8

my10ae, check your pm's. please that is.

my10ae

Spr grn8:

How you making out with the maps I sent you?

I am going to do some more runs tonite to tweak my timing from 4K on. Anyone know if you can adjust the timing below 4K with success? I tried playing with timing below 4K and the car ran stronger, but idled very rough.

I will adjust the 4000-5000K rpm range tonite and see if I can get a little more power out of those ranges.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

I haven't had much luck below 4K with the timing...it seems to hesitate even with 1-2 deg of advance. I have a couple of degrees at 4K and up to 6 in other areas. I'm also going to work on the 5-7K area this weekend. Hope to find a bit more there. Will be dynoing next weekend...hopefully will get a better idea how it reacts...I've got a few maps with varying degrees of advance I want to test.


Anyone have any advice for where to add advance the most effectively.........and how much total advance could be possible??