is it worth it to turbo/sc
09-18-2006, 07:33 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by trusterotary307
heres my question: ALl in all is it worth the money,hp gains,work,tuning to make an rx-8 turbo/sc if you want to have a lot of speed or is it better to just mildy tune the 8 have it is a daily driver and get sumthin else to really get alot of power out of(by alot of power im meaning around 500hp.) just want some opinions on this/proof if possible that it is or isnt worth it.and lets not bash each 
other i wanna see both sides to the argument.
other i wanna see both sides to the argument.
09-18-2006, 08:10 AM
#28
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My first question to the poster is.. Have you ever drivin a 500hp car? That may not seem like alot of power if you look at pure drag cars, but that is a **** load of power depending on the motor and weight of the car. You also gotta look into putting all that power to the ground $$$$.
If you want a cheap car you can beat the **** out of get a V8. You can build a monster V8 for very cheap. 20B swap is like what 16-20k$. You can buy a brand new bolt in 475-500hp (all motor mind you) fully tuned V8 for 7-8K$. You could build a motor close to that for about 4k or less. (Note a 500ish Hp V8 is gonna see about 8Mpg, a 800hp gets about 4mpg).
I suggest having 2 cars anyways if your gonna play with big Hp but need a car you can drive to work and back everyday. If you gonna push a car really hard something is gonna break. Also you dont feel so bad about blowing up a motor if you still have another car to drive.
If you want a cheap car you can beat the **** out of get a V8. You can build a monster V8 for very cheap. 20B swap is like what 16-20k$. You can buy a brand new bolt in 475-500hp (all motor mind you) fully tuned V8 for 7-8K$. You could build a motor close to that for about 4k or less. (Note a 500ish Hp V8 is gonna see about 8Mpg, a 800hp gets about 4mpg).
I suggest having 2 cars anyways if your gonna play with big Hp but need a car you can drive to work and back everyday. If you gonna push a car really hard something is gonna break. Also you dont feel so bad about blowing up a motor if you still have another car to drive.
Last edited by Trekk; 09-18-2006 at 08:13 AM.
09-18-2006, 09:14 AM
#31
'03 Dodge Viper
Ahem, now to make a contribution to the original topic of the thread.
To original poster - it seems you recognize that a FI rx8 will never be a track monster without a lot of money. If your intentions are to pep up the car some to make up for its relative slowness to other sports cars, then go for it. That's a weakness of the 8, and if you're "fixing it" to make it more enjoyable, pony up and get yourself a kit.
To original poster - it seems you recognize that a FI rx8 will never be a track monster without a lot of money. If your intentions are to pep up the car some to make up for its relative slowness to other sports cars, then go for it. That's a weakness of the 8, and if you're "fixing it" to make it more enjoyable, pony up and get yourself a kit.
09-18-2006, 10:35 AM
#32
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"I think what truste is asking for is real world driving impressions of turbo powered 8s vs stock & what compromises you have to make to achieve those power levels.
I think I have done as much as anyone here as far as N/A mods go and can say the car is definately more fun to drive without any real compromises (although LW fly does make it a bit harder to drive smoothly).
However , it is probably quite tame when compared to a FI 8 & if you want that kind of a buzz - FI is the only way you will get it . If you read a few turbo threads you will find its not all plain sailing though ."
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This ^ ^ ^ ^ is more of the kinda of information i was looking for,but all of you seem to have alot of info on thje subject which makes me change my mind to much lol does anyone just have some quarter mile times comparison of competition with other cars or anything after an 8 is turbo'd?And do quote Trekk (below)
"My first question to the poster is.. Have you ever drivin a 500hp car? That may not seem like alot of power if you look at pure drag cars, but that is a **** load of power depending on the motor and weight of the car. You also gotta look into putting all that power to the ground $$$$.
If you want a cheap car you can beat the **** out of get a V8. You can build a monster V8 for very cheap. 20B swap is like what 16-20k$. You can buy a brand new bolt in 475-500hp (all motor mind you) fully tuned V8 for 7-8K$. You could build a motor close to that for about 4k or less. (Note a 500ish Hp V8 is gonna see about 8Mpg, a 800hp gets about 4mpg).
I suggest having 2 cars anyways if your gonna play with big Hp but need a car you can drive to work and back everyday. If you gonna push a car really hard something is gonna break. Also you dont feel so bad about blowing up a motor if you still have another car to drive."
Yes i have driven a 500hp car and i know how it is to have one.I have driven a 500hp integra and a 500hp STI so i know what im looking into.thanks for asking though its a good question..
I think I have done as much as anyone here as far as N/A mods go and can say the car is definately more fun to drive without any real compromises (although LW fly does make it a bit harder to drive smoothly).
However , it is probably quite tame when compared to a FI 8 & if you want that kind of a buzz - FI is the only way you will get it . If you read a few turbo threads you will find its not all plain sailing though ."
Reply With Quote
This ^ ^ ^ ^ is more of the kinda of information i was looking for,but all of you seem to have alot of info on thje subject which makes me change my mind to much lol does anyone just have some quarter mile times comparison of competition with other cars or anything after an 8 is turbo'd?And do quote Trekk (below)
"My first question to the poster is.. Have you ever drivin a 500hp car? That may not seem like alot of power if you look at pure drag cars, but that is a **** load of power depending on the motor and weight of the car. You also gotta look into putting all that power to the ground $$$$.
If you want a cheap car you can beat the **** out of get a V8. You can build a monster V8 for very cheap. 20B swap is like what 16-20k$. You can buy a brand new bolt in 475-500hp (all motor mind you) fully tuned V8 for 7-8K$. You could build a motor close to that for about 4k or less. (Note a 500ish Hp V8 is gonna see about 8Mpg, a 800hp gets about 4mpg).
I suggest having 2 cars anyways if your gonna play with big Hp but need a car you can drive to work and back everyday. If you gonna push a car really hard something is gonna break. Also you dont feel so bad about blowing up a motor if you still have another car to drive."
Yes i have driven a 500hp car and i know how it is to have one.I have driven a 500hp integra and a 500hp STI so i know what im looking into.thanks for asking though its a good question..
09-18-2006, 12:07 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by trusterotary307
heres my question: ALl in all is it worth the money,hp gains,work,tuning to make an rx-8 turbo/sc if you want to have a lot of speed or is it better to just mildy tune the 8 have it is a daily driver and get sumthin else to really get alot of power out of(by alot of power im meaning around 500hp.) just want some opinions on this/proof if possible that it is or isnt worth it.and lets not bash each other i wanna see both sides to the argument.
other i wanna see both sides to the argument.500hp imports are rare in the first place but you claim to have found 2 that you were able to drive? A 500hp Integ is atleast 15k in just motor and turbo.
"Yes i have driven a 500hp car and i know how it is to have one."
How do you know? Do you own one?
Last edited by Trekk; 09-18-2006 at 12:10 PM.
09-18-2006, 01:59 PM
#34
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i owned a 500hp integra but i sold it after the motor blew and a friend of mine has a 500hp STI and i didnt think the 8 could get 500hp with that motor it was just an example......ooo and good geuss price wise on the integ it was about 23k when it was all done
09-20-2006, 02:14 PM
#36
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You'd more or less get a h22 then stoke it, have dart sleeves or something put in it. Bore the crap out of the head, use $$$ valves and springs. A turbo the size of my head $$$$$, adjustable cam gears. Good standalone or maybe hondata , inline fuel pump, huge injectors 720cc or more, or just extra injectors. Lots of time on a dyno to dial the cams in with the stroker kit set up fuel ect.
It wouldn't at all be worth it unless it was a pure drag car. You cant put that type of power down w/o some very wide slicks. I've sprayed a 150 shot on a stock integ and it would spind the wheels in 3rd easy.
If you wanna go fast do it the right way. Get a 5.0 build it from the ground up and slap a 500shot Nos profogger kit on it and own the streets. Oh and hope you dont bend the car in 1/2.
It wouldn't at all be worth it unless it was a pure drag car. You cant put that type of power down w/o some very wide slicks. I've sprayed a 150 shot on a stock integ and it would spind the wheels in 3rd easy.
If you wanna go fast do it the right way. Get a 5.0 build it from the ground up and slap a 500shot Nos profogger kit on it and own the streets. Oh and hope you dont bend the car in 1/2.
09-20-2006, 07:07 PM
#38
I think a supercharger that can bring you into the 280 HP to 300 HP range would be good enough. 300 is a reasonable mark, as oppose to 500.
I know this may cause some debate, but superchargers appear to be easier kits to install, will cause less overall damage to the engine and other parts, and will last longer than arguably turbo.
If you make a supercharger or turbo kit that is below 280 HP, it becomes hard to very hard for people to justify buying it. If you are only going to get a 35 HP boost from the kit, than people are going to think they can do other things like get their ECU flashed, light flywheels, pulleys, race gas, etc... to get the same HP level. The bottom line is a decent HP increase, justifies buying the supercharger or turbo kit and a small HP increase makes it very hard to fork over $5,000 dollars ( more or less ). If you can see 1 second or more increases in the 0-60 and 1/4 mile, again it will justify the kit.
Furthermore, 280 HP to 300 HP is the range of cars in the class or are compared with the RX-8. Of course you have to factor in weight too, as cars that are heavier than the RX-8's 3000 pounds will "need" more HP. Don't forget that Mazdaspeed has got 270 HP hatchbacks and family cars ( just to slap its own sports car in the face ). So why aim for a kit that gives you less, than a Mazdaspeed 3 hatchback?
I know this may cause some debate, but superchargers appear to be easier kits to install, will cause less overall damage to the engine and other parts, and will last longer than arguably turbo.
If you make a supercharger or turbo kit that is below 280 HP, it becomes hard to very hard for people to justify buying it. If you are only going to get a 35 HP boost from the kit, than people are going to think they can do other things like get their ECU flashed, light flywheels, pulleys, race gas, etc... to get the same HP level. The bottom line is a decent HP increase, justifies buying the supercharger or turbo kit and a small HP increase makes it very hard to fork over $5,000 dollars ( more or less ). If you can see 1 second or more increases in the 0-60 and 1/4 mile, again it will justify the kit.
Furthermore, 280 HP to 300 HP is the range of cars in the class or are compared with the RX-8. Of course you have to factor in weight too, as cars that are heavier than the RX-8's 3000 pounds will "need" more HP. Don't forget that Mazdaspeed has got 270 HP hatchbacks and family cars ( just to slap its own sports car in the face ). So why aim for a kit that gives you less, than a Mazdaspeed 3 hatchback?
Last edited by sosonic; 09-20-2006 at 07:16 PM.
09-20-2006, 07:17 PM
#39
Originally Posted by sosonic
superchargers will cause less overall damage to the engine and other parts, and will last longer than arguably turbo.
If you make a supercharger or turbo get that is below 280 HP, it becomes hard to very hard for people to justify buying it. If you are only going to get a 35 HP boost from the kit
people are going to think they can do other things like get their ECU flashed, light flywheels, pulleys, race gas, etc... to get the same HP level.
09-20-2006, 07:42 PM
#40
I was talking overall HP, bhp, HP (SAE), ps (which is not the same, but close enough), etc... I don't know the Mazdaspeed 3 and 6 WHP (wheel) numbers, so I'm throwing out its quoted HP/BHP/PS numbers for comparison to a target I think supercharger and turbo RX-8 kits should be reaching for.
Right, flashing the ECU, flywheels, pulleys, race gas, exhaust, etc... will not give you 100 HP. I never said it did. But it can arguably give you gains in the 35 HP increase range ( of course this depends on the mods and who you talk to).
Also a SC or Turbo kits has to go against Mazda's advertised numers. This is of course assuming Mazda is telling the truth about its 238 HP to 250 HP ( M/T ), 212 HP (6sp AT), 210 (4sp AT overseas ), and 195 HP or so (4sp AT in the U.S.). Of course the dyno and various 0-60 and 1/4 mile runs shows Mazda either lying or cars with huge variations in performance numbers. Which makes it harder for kits to show gains over what was advertised by Mazda. Since many cars are starting far lower in terms of HP to just get up to what was advertised and then to show a decent increase.
No mater how some would not like the comparison, its obvious to compare 270 HP Mazdaspeed 3s and 6s to the RX-8. This is even before you start to compare weight and horsepower of the RX-8 to other cars in its class. Having a supercharger or turbo kit that can equal or better the mark Mazdaspeed is setting makes sense.
300 HP is still that magic justification number for the RX-8, in the minds of various people. Getting close is good, but getting that number would be better.
Right, flashing the ECU, flywheels, pulleys, race gas, exhaust, etc... will not give you 100 HP. I never said it did. But it can arguably give you gains in the 35 HP increase range ( of course this depends on the mods and who you talk to).
Also a SC or Turbo kits has to go against Mazda's advertised numers. This is of course assuming Mazda is telling the truth about its 238 HP to 250 HP ( M/T ), 212 HP (6sp AT), 210 (4sp AT overseas ), and 195 HP or so (4sp AT in the U.S.). Of course the dyno and various 0-60 and 1/4 mile runs shows Mazda either lying or cars with huge variations in performance numbers. Which makes it harder for kits to show gains over what was advertised by Mazda. Since many cars are starting far lower in terms of HP to just get up to what was advertised and then to show a decent increase.
No mater how some would not like the comparison, its obvious to compare 270 HP Mazdaspeed 3s and 6s to the RX-8. This is even before you start to compare weight and horsepower of the RX-8 to other cars in its class. Having a supercharger or turbo kit that can equal or better the mark Mazdaspeed is setting makes sense.
300 HP is still that magic justification number for the RX-8, in the minds of various people. Getting close is good, but getting that number would be better.
Last edited by sosonic; 09-20-2006 at 08:00 PM.
09-20-2006, 07:51 PM
#41
Originally Posted by sosonic
No mater how some would not like the comparison, its obvious to compare 270 HP Mazdaspeed 3s and 6s to the RX-8. This is even before you start to compare weight and horsepower of the RX-8 to other cars in its class. Having a supercharger or turbo kit that can equal or better the mark Mazdaspeed is setting makes sense.
It would be difficult for anyone to make a FI kit for the RX-8 that couldn't muster up an additional 30 hp.
09-20-2006, 08:20 PM
#42
But thats stating that RX-8s were getting 190 whp to start with. Many RX-8 M/T are starting with less than 190 whp, with number posting in the 170 whp to 180 whp range. RX-8 Autos are in the 130 to 160 whp range.
To make sure people are getting at least 220 whp (assuming that number is correct), people need kits at least in the 50 whp (wheel) increase range. That would only be equaling a Mazdaspeed 6 and not be in the 300 HP (SAE) range. To make a sweet kit that people can easily justify buying, would need to be more in the 75 whp (wheel) or better range. Don't forget the RX-8 Autos out there.
The issue would then be whether a kit in the 75 whp to 100 whp increase range (or 300 HP (SAE) or so) be realiable, easy to install, and be affordable. It seems that it could be and it would put out the short distance performance numbers.
270 HP (SAE) Mazdaspeed 3s are running 0-60 in the 5s. And the Mazdaspeed 3 hatchback weighs 200 pounds or so less than the RX-8 (something that may require a bit more horsepower to compensate for). I would think somebody buying a kit for the RX-8 would want to see 5s in their 0-60 runs.
To make sure people are getting at least 220 whp (assuming that number is correct), people need kits at least in the 50 whp (wheel) increase range. That would only be equaling a Mazdaspeed 6 and not be in the 300 HP (SAE) range. To make a sweet kit that people can easily justify buying, would need to be more in the 75 whp (wheel) or better range. Don't forget the RX-8 Autos out there.
The issue would then be whether a kit in the 75 whp to 100 whp increase range (or 300 HP (SAE) or so) be realiable, easy to install, and be affordable. It seems that it could be and it would put out the short distance performance numbers.
270 HP (SAE) Mazdaspeed 3s are running 0-60 in the 5s. And the Mazdaspeed 3 hatchback weighs 200 pounds or so less than the RX-8 (something that may require a bit more horsepower to compensate for). I would think somebody buying a kit for the RX-8 would want to see 5s in their 0-60 runs.
Last edited by sosonic; 09-20-2006 at 09:09 PM.
09-20-2006, 09:40 PM
#43
Originally Posted by sosonic
The issue would then be whether a kit in the 75 whp to 100 whp increase range (or 300 HP (SAE) or so) be realiable, easy to install, and be affordable.
09-20-2006, 10:14 PM
#44
But the performance numbers of the greddy appears to have been disappointing (to some). Has anybody got solid numbers on the greddy? Any 5 sec 0-60 times or lower 1/4 mile times for the RX-8? The Mazdaspeed3, 5 second 0-60 numbers have mostly been confirmed.
Your suppose to get 6 sec 0-60 with the RX-8 M/T to begin with. Why have we not seen people here happy with the greddy turbo kits price and performance? Also, I've not seen anybody lay down that the greddy turbo kit will give you 300 HP (SAE). I've seen debatable "close" numbers (depending on what your WHP numbers starting are), but not clearly over 300 HP (SAE).
The problem with WHP gains goes back to the advertised Mazda numbers, versus the real world numbers of the RX-8. The greddy kit has to compete with Mazda's advertised numbers and bring up the power on RX-8s that may be far below the advertised numbers.
Also the Greddy kit, while a good kit, does not appear to be able to put RX-8 Autos in the 300 HP (SAE) range, even if it might get the RX-8 6 speed (as oppose to 5 speed) M/T close.
Maybe the mark should be a 325 to 350 HP (SAE) kit for the RX-8. The M/T would get the high numbers, but the Auto may get much closer or over 300 HP (SAE) too. It would be just low enough to prevent major upgrades, but enough to bring even poor performing RX-8 Autos pulling 130 whp into contention. The Blitz supercharger kit did have a good idea with allowing you to choose boost levels. So you could drive around near normal and select the power you need for your given situation. It unfortunate, that the Blitz supercharger does not appear to get to the 300 HP to 350 HP (SAE) range either and is very conservative.
Now don't get me wrong, for a while, it seems the greddy kit was just about the only kit for the RX-8. Its just that, is it thee kit that gives the numbers and performance that RX-8 people are happy with.
For cheaper, there is the school that says just put NOS in there and you will get the same performance numbers as Greddy turbo ( of course were talking 0-60 or 1/4 mile, short distance, etc...).
There are still a bunch of supercharger kits making their way out to, so we all have to wait on their numbers, performance, and price. Plus other turbo kits with more horsepower.
Your suppose to get 6 sec 0-60 with the RX-8 M/T to begin with. Why have we not seen people here happy with the greddy turbo kits price and performance? Also, I've not seen anybody lay down that the greddy turbo kit will give you 300 HP (SAE). I've seen debatable "close" numbers (depending on what your WHP numbers starting are), but not clearly over 300 HP (SAE).
The problem with WHP gains goes back to the advertised Mazda numbers, versus the real world numbers of the RX-8. The greddy kit has to compete with Mazda's advertised numbers and bring up the power on RX-8s that may be far below the advertised numbers.
Also the Greddy kit, while a good kit, does not appear to be able to put RX-8 Autos in the 300 HP (SAE) range, even if it might get the RX-8 6 speed (as oppose to 5 speed) M/T close.
Maybe the mark should be a 325 to 350 HP (SAE) kit for the RX-8. The M/T would get the high numbers, but the Auto may get much closer or over 300 HP (SAE) too. It would be just low enough to prevent major upgrades, but enough to bring even poor performing RX-8 Autos pulling 130 whp into contention. The Blitz supercharger kit did have a good idea with allowing you to choose boost levels. So you could drive around near normal and select the power you need for your given situation. It unfortunate, that the Blitz supercharger does not appear to get to the 300 HP to 350 HP (SAE) range either and is very conservative.
Now don't get me wrong, for a while, it seems the greddy kit was just about the only kit for the RX-8. Its just that, is it thee kit that gives the numbers and performance that RX-8 people are happy with.
For cheaper, there is the school that says just put NOS in there and you will get the same performance numbers as Greddy turbo ( of course were talking 0-60 or 1/4 mile, short distance, etc...).
There are still a bunch of supercharger kits making their way out to, so we all have to wait on their numbers, performance, and price. Plus other turbo kits with more horsepower.
Last edited by sosonic; 09-20-2006 at 11:51 PM.
09-20-2006, 11:59 PM
#45
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I think its funny that the vast majority of people with opinions on going FI, don't even have a boosted 8.
My opinion on the matter is that it is worth it if you like the journey and not just the end result. I like working on my car, I like challenging projects. I don't mind having to constantly tinker with things. If you just want a faster car and aren't in it for the project then just buy a faster car.
My car is dramatically faster then when it was stock, but yet drives like a stock car. However, it took me some time to get it to were it is now, but I've had fun doing it.
I wouldn't recommend going FI if:
-You are completely dependent on your car. Things will go wrong, and there will be times when you car is out of commission.
-If you can't afford a new motor.
-You have no mechanical inclination, unless you can afford to keep a mechanic and tuner on staff.
The car really is alot more fun with boost though. The problem is you always want more.
My opinion on the matter is that it is worth it if you like the journey and not just the end result. I like working on my car, I like challenging projects. I don't mind having to constantly tinker with things. If you just want a faster car and aren't in it for the project then just buy a faster car.
My car is dramatically faster then when it was stock, but yet drives like a stock car. However, it took me some time to get it to were it is now, but I've had fun doing it.
I wouldn't recommend going FI if:
-You are completely dependent on your car. Things will go wrong, and there will be times when you car is out of commission.
-If you can't afford a new motor.
-You have no mechanical inclination, unless you can afford to keep a mechanic and tuner on staff.
The car really is alot more fun with boost though. The problem is you always want more.
Last edited by rkostolni; 09-21-2006 at 12:02 AM.
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