Phish806

iTrader: (4)

once again it comes down to the question would a 400ish hp renesis need the extra reinforcement.... Its one of those things where its right on the edge of needing, i believe.

BDC

As a matter of principle on a modified car that could very easily turn into an experimental platform later on for bigger power, I think you should. Normally when I recommend this sort of stuff it's based on the use of the car over the long term. If you plan on playing with it a lot in the future, plus aiming for the power level you'd like to achieve, then I say "yes". As you've no doubt read from Suay on this thread, his engine cracked a front plate at the upper dowel run. It causes the infamous oil leak that demands the engine be torn down and the front plate replaced. His car wasn't anywhere close to what you're aiming for yet it happened albeit from a cause that was probably more akin to RF/EMI spark interference (the problem cropped up after putting some hot coils and new wires on the setup) or crossfire on the plug wires themselves. His was symptomatic of random, hard hitting pops when trying to load the motor out that follow either of the two causes above. Nonetheless, had the motor been reinforced in virtually any of the ways listed already in the thread, it probably wouldn't have cracked that plate and would've saved lots of downtime on the vehicle. His experience along with others are the reasons why I'd say "yes" to doing it while the car is apart.

Steve, don't think of it in terms of power. Power in and of itself is ambiguous and is a categorical error when comparing it to the reasons why a block would be re-inforced because raw power in and of itself won't break it. There's nothing magical about any particular power level per say whereas the idea behind block re-inforcement is for preventing other oddball problems from breaking it in the first place.

Hope that makes sense,

B

Phish806

iTrader: (4)

As far as the pinning goes, i believe i have decided to let A-spec do there stud service. They are somewhat local and this would take care of the pinning/studding i hope and hopefully help prevent any cracking of plates.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Comment deleted, best wishes with your project

rotarygod

The reason the front housing cracks so easily is because there is lots of load on that end of that dowel pin since they don't go all the way though. I need to go stare down at the bottoms of these holes to see what they are shaped like. If they are blunt corners, that's another reason why they crack and the solution would be to mill slightly deeper so that there would be a radius at the end. If it already has one it's going to come down to loads being exerted by the flex of the engine causing the dowel to try to bend.

rotarygod

FWIW: He called ME and he wasn't asking me how something worked. He was clarifying that certain things worked a certain way as he was being thorough. I didn't tell him anything he didn't already know. It had to do with the way the Interceptor was set up as it was a bit unconventional. It had nothing to do with a rotary or the Renesis and nothing to do with the fact that this was an RX-8 or that he didn't know the car or the engine. Not true. He called to be absolutely certain that the goofy way the ecu was wired up worked the way it appeared to. If I remember correctly he spent a lot of time fixing it.

chickenwafer

iTrader: (9)

Brian, those "pops" you heard were probably misfires as with the LS2 coils at that time we didn't realize the dwell timing required for said coils.

blackenedwings

Which could certainly contribute to cracking the front plate. Isn't that basically what happened with mysql's motor?

Rote8

Check with Pettit.
They do killer street ports.

chickenwafer

iTrader: (9)

Yep. And a few other motors I think

Phish806

iTrader: (4)

Set dwell in INT-X to 5ms before startup.... check. Thanks for the reminder though lol. i need to start placing sticky notes all over the car to make sure i remember all the little things before first startup. Or do the tape a list to the window trick.

theblackbox

wait wait
you dont know what happened

then later on you know what happened?

just curious to know

Salamanth

Reading comprehension FTW. He never says anywhere in either of those posts he KNOWS what happened, he speculates.

spec·u·late (spky-lt)
v. spec·u·lat·ed, spec·u·lat·ing, spec·u·lates
v.intr.
1. To meditate on a subject; reflect.
2. To engage in a course of reasoning often based on inconclusive evidence.

rotarygod

He asked what broke the plate as it wasn't anything he did. Was it detonation? Was it ignition issues? Were there 2 giants with mile long breaker bars trying to twist the engine apart? Did the space shuttle use it as a launch pad?

Since Suay said that the front housing cracked in the dowel area, Brian knowing what can potentially cause it, decided to explain those potential causes to the rest of us.

I don't see the issue.

BDC

I don't know for certain what it was but I've got an idea about it. The symptoms cropped up after the coils and plug wires were changed. It didn't exist prior to that during the other two times that I was there in town working on the car. That I do know for certain. Suay had auto-x'd the car several times from what I understand so it's not as if the car wasn't able to be boosted or driven. The purpose of my 3rd try at the car was for target boost (I wanted 10psi out of the setup) that would wrap out to ~7-7500rpm without going lean. The way the wiring was done on the injectors to the Microtech harness via Mazsport was challenging me in its unconventional setup given that I'd changed the map from Normal mode over to Matrix to get it to run much better. The way it was originally setup was ****-poor and quite frankly I wanted to do a good and thorough job. So, all of what I was doing during the 3rd try was adjusting one particular fuel map and datalogging the runs. The car started, idled, and ran just fine around town and actually felt really good. In Suay's attempts to try and play me down as an inept tuner, he won't tell you that he actually agreed with me on how the car drove. The symptom I ran into was a harsh knock that was much harder than a spark blow-out due to not having enough dwell on a particular coil (not that I disagree with you chickenwafer Dave; I just don't think that's what it was). It was the kind of knock that would stutter the entire driveline. In my almost 10 years of tuning experience, that is likely to be one of three things - too hot of a plug for the load and RPM (doubtful in this case as it wasn't exhibited prior), crossfire from one wire to another under load (likely given the change of hardware), and/or noise on a trigger harness from having a gobs hotter set of ignition coils (very likely given that a symptom like that becomes more prevalent the more load you demand on the ignition system and that is something you Rx8 turbo guys need to look at much more closely as I have a way to solve that!). It wasn't fuel and wasn't spark advance, hence it wasn't my tuning.

Btw, I can't recall what ignition hardware it was but the coils produced a hell of a spark. I also can't recall the dwell time but I want to say it was around 5.5-6ms. Sounds like an LS1/LS2 coil. I think the plug wires were a generic Accel wire set from the auto parts' store but I could be mistaken on that.

This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about when I say, "waving a magic wand". None of us that dare to actually travel away from where we work to try and tune cars that in almost every case we've never seen before, that have any and all sorts of combinations of modifications done with varying degrees of workmanship, that we're supposed to get 100% sorted, have one of those magic wands. We can't always make things right although we try. Some of us a hell of a lot harder and more thoroughly than others. Sometimes things break and there's nothing we can do about it. Quite frankly, you guys on these forums that criticize tuners like me have some nerve to point yours fingers so quickly and haphazardly at us when something goes wrong because you've got absolutely no clue whatsoever what it takes to do this job let alone get a car running perfectly. I get incensed when I see comments like, "he messed up a friends car" or "do you know or do you not know" when it gives zero credence to the truth of the actual situation. I was the guy that was there. I was the guy stressing out over not disappointing a paying customer, keeping the knowledge of him having purchased two brand-new Mazda rotor housings (and paying who knows what else in engine and car work), while doing my best to make sure that the engine stays together. So, don't come on here and spread your garbage about me because it's just that: garbage.

Steve, again, sorry to hijack your thread. I saw that you're taking the housings to A-Spec to get them pinned. Tell Sean I said hi.

B

Phish806

iTrader: (4)

actually i have decided to get them studded instead of the extra pins added. Most likely will nto do the bridgeport since its not really needed for the power i want.

Dont worry about the thread hijacking, some things just need to be said and cleared up. Plus i think i have gotten all the info that i wanted and you and others were very helpful.

suay

Funny. Not true, but funny. Hell of a comment though. Bravo!

Fin

05rex8

iTrader: (7)

nobody believes the crap you're spewing so give it up already