Ekim

Yea, i know the Thread

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-maj...er-kit-233019/

But nothing came of it. Haven't searched the AUS site in a long time though.

Anyways, still seems like a great SC.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yeah, Looks like a good unit. Not much of a market though, this type of build would be 100% custom.

Ekim

Everything for the Rx8 is custom, if you want it to any good. Even the "bolt-on" FI kits need custom work.

Seems to me, in my opinion, all the "kits" are basically just a template to get started with.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

You correctly understand how it really is.

Too many people expect a 'kit' to be an all-inclusive solution.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

True, but there is a huge difference between making minor changes to an already existing turbo kit and fabricating a complete supercharger kit from scratch.

Fister_Roboto

If you'll read my post above, you'll see which unit. As far as whether I'm doing this for my build- not sure yet. It's been something I've been thinking about for sure though. I'm on the fence as far as power goals for this car are concerned, as well as whether investing that kind of money in a car that has held practically no value is a wise decision. Sure, I would enjoy it with a custom built SC paired with my hybrid build, but is it really worth it? Especially when I could put that money towards a much more capable and purposeful car (in my case, a Lotus Elise). Different strokes.

Fister_Roboto

As far as Rotrex goes, that is THE best unit. There's a reason you'll find Rotrex SC's on the Koeniggsegg CCX.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Except it's not a 2-rotor Wankel. Until you actually prove something you won't be taken seriously.

Fister_Roboto

I don't have to prove anything because I don't care if people take me seriously on a forum. If I ever get around to doing it, I'll gladly share the results, but I've got bigger fish to fry.

DAT2RTR

Ive finally found a thread that im interested in that im not bringing back from the dead!

Anyways. Even if one would custom fab a SC and get it tuned and working and blah blah blah. You would still have problems with failing side seals and corner seals from our tiny *** exhaust ports. yes? So, if you were to do this and get everything 100% you would most likely see premature failure of your motor anyways. Yes, I know that there are a number of people on here with rather high mileage FI rennys. But, seeing as they are not the norm, or the OP's lack of response in about 6 months or so, and his seemingly (i dont know him, im rather new here as you can tell. but i know the differences between a 13B and a MSP) small knowledge about the car he is driving. maybe someone should let him borrow their SC "kit" and let him blow up his motor. That way i can buy his blown car and build myself a track missle.

Harlan

iTrader: (3)

Although they could be better exhaust port size and seal construction are not the big problem high rpm, high compression, and bad tuning are the problem. You have to leave HP on the table especially at high rpm or you are one bad tank of gas away from engine failure. But yeah I agree getting the plumbing set up and working is only half the battle.

Ekim

1st off this whole thread is about SCs and what, if anything, is happening with them...

No one who has been following FI MSPs shouldn't have any false hopes or illusions about it. You can fabricate everything on the car and in theory it should produce "X" whp, but it really always comes down to the Tune and fine tuning.

9k, I do agree there is a huge difference from building from scratch for sure. But I have followed most of the builds in this Forum and looks like everyone "successful" is building from "scratch... some with a greddy header and piping to start... some with other turbo headers...

End the end, they all seem to come out with a custom job/ "from scratch"... Idk

But talk is talk and I have No reputation here....

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

The biggest issue with the failing engines is a lack of proper tuning in most cases. I have seen a lot of FI RX-8's in person and typically the ones that fail quickly are all due to the owners being lazy and skimping on tuning and/or and a lot of them are just half assed installations and corner cutting.

You also have to be realistic with your targets and use for the car. Boosting a high compression Renesis is not ideal for a few reasons (high compression, side exhaust ports, etc) so expecting 30,000-50,000 miles on a good conservative setup (280-300HP) is about all you should expect and that mileage expectation is pretty usual I think for any engine being boosted that was not factory turbocharged. I have boosted quite a few other cars that were not factory turbocharged and you just can't expect to get a ton of mileage out of them unless you run a low boost kit and keep things really conservative and no one really does that on any platform in my experience. Most turbo builds here IMO are done pretty poorly and that is why you see so many failures, the good setups that do have engine failures are from experimenting or pushing the power.

And honestly if you look at most of what I would call the good builds, they are all still running and have been for years with quite a bit of miles. Myself, WCS, 05mazdarx8, Brettus, Gregs, Konigs, Rotarymachinex, shelldude, Dondo, FazdaRX8, etc. (I am sure I am forgetting a few). And that is just turbo guys, that doesn't include all the pettit SC guys.

Of course there are also many other variables and different issues you can run into on a FI build (turbo failure, lack of supportive reliability focused mods, etc.) that you just don't have to deal with on a NA build.

DAT2RTR

But im sure all of the people you mentioned take meticulous care of their cars and know the ins and outs of their engine bays. theyre not someone thats asking for specific part numbers to build a one off supercharger kit. I'm up in ND and i dont have the slightest idea where i would take my car to get tuned professionally. We've got a local tuner that does most peoples (Subaru) builds around here. But he straight up said he wouldnt touch my car. I dont blame him, nor would i take it to him. Ive got ideas (not gunna bring them up here. i need more time and $$ to research and start to make this idea take off) on what i want to do. Im sure the info is on here and just take some searching. No idea why someone would want to be spoonfed like that

The "idea" behind the post seemed to be in a good direction. What style superchargers have improved in their designs or how have they lessened parasitic loss over the years through R&D. maybe this thread should have been put in the "General Discussion" part of the site?

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I think the idea of a CF SC is good, don't get me wrong, there just needs to be proper, prior, planning to get it done right. And aside from the money and skills needed to accomplish this, you also need a serious level of dedication and passion for the RX-8. That is what kills most builds or makes the owners resort to taking major shortcuts, IMO they just don't have enough give a ***** left for the car to drive them to do it right. It's easier to just go out and buy a Mustang or something.

Fister_Roboto

I wholeheartedly, 200% agree that proper tuning is paramount to the long life of the engines, or ANY engine for that matter. I've seen a lot of engine failures from people doing their own tunes who had no effing clue what they were doing (less than 500 miles after a very tedious, and expensive build with high quality components, won't name names). My philosophy- overkill on hardware, invest in a proper ECU, invest in an overly competent tuner, and keep money handy just in case something fails. Every engine I've built (rotary or otherwise) has been over built for the application and it has yet to let me down.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yep, I gave tuning the old college try, we flew kane in, we all got involved, then I had Brettus help me, and at the end of the day I had a half *** tune (which ran rich and would bog luckily, which was the problem so it was on the safe side), I tried replacing injectors (which were new anyway), all kind of **** was recommended. And I finally bit the bullet and took my car to Dallas to Steve Kan and that was the best decision I ever made, he had my tune issues fixed after a run or two and it has ran well ever since and all I have done since is make improvements.

There is nothing like a qualified tuner who can do it live. Sure it ain't cheap and I was lucky to have him somewhat local which helped cost wise but even if I had to pay him $1500.00 to fly him in I would have, because when you spend $10,000.00 pn an engine and turbo setup then what is another $1500.00. Especially now, I probably have that much in AN fittings and hose on my car now. But then I see guys who spent $5,000.00 turbocharging their RX-8 say, "$500.00 for tune with dyno time? That is expensive!"

Fister_Roboto

Yeah, Steven Kan and PRT definitely know their stuff and his time is worth every penny. A good friend of mine, who recently relocated from Cali to Florida, is a tuning legend as well, and I'll be flying him out to Texas to tune mine once it's ready. I'll have him build me a break in map in Florida first, I figure the drive from Jacksonville to Austin will be a good start for break in as long as I stay conscious of RPM management.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Of course not. There's no shortage of non-tech savvy members who will buy into your unsupported ideas and claims without giving it a second thought.

Fister_Roboto

I have a finite budget, and using it to prove a point to strangers on the internet isn't my idea of money well spent. Like I said, if I decide to go SC, that's the route I'm taking because it isn't as impossible as many believe, you just have to know what you're doing. At the end of the day, you're still just forcing air and fuel into an engine, just have to understand the safest and most efficient way to do so.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

That's the lame excuse of any and every pie in the sky theoretical textbook expert. Rotary engine builders with extensive Renesis experience not trying to sell any ol' line of BS to make a sale to a foolish, deeper pockets than knowledgeable sense sucker say otherwise ...

Technology does not stand still, but anyone thinking the latest CF-SC technology trumps the latest 2-rotor turbo technogy ( which is essentially non-existent here) is not well informed. You just end up with less whp/wtq relative to actual engine loading.

Phail, big time ....

I went down that road a long time ago and refused to believe it then just as you do now. So the opinion expressed above is not so much directed at you as my own ignorant foolishness then ...

.

Fister_Roboto

Okay, lets get a few things straight here. A- I'm not trying to sell ****, your words, not mine. If someone wants to take something I say out of context and **** up royally because of it, that isn't my problem. Period. B- I never said that supercharging was superior to turbocharging (again, your words, not mine). I was addressing the topic at hand, which was supercharging. Obviously, turbos are easier and cheaper, but that isn't what was asked. Your logic is like going into a pet store, finding someone who's looking at kittens, and telling them that puppies are better. Everyone has differing tastes so stop pushing your opinion. Stating your opinion is one thing, but smeg off already with this crap.

AAaF

^I do not think a turbo- setup is simpler than a SC from a mechanical point of view. I have the impression that a SC is better in many ways, but less effective due to parasitic loss. Slower in a straight line, but more drivable at the track for us who have more average driving skills.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

NHRA promod.

tofu_box

I have a full rotrex setup in my car. It started off as the knightsports sc kit, there are a fair few fundamental issues with the kit, but it bolts on. Most of the custom work I have done has been an attempt to fix the issues. Best way to describe a rotrex rx8 is it makes the car feel like it has a bigger engine, there is no boost kick, it has the exact same HP/torque curve just at a higher value.

In terms of power, mine was a 4 port auto. Before boost it was at 121hp at wheels (dyno here in Australia all reads about that much for a 4 port rx8) I ended up with 281hp at the wheels.