Turbo Efficiency Range for RX-8
01-28-2009, 12:24 AM
#127
I went on to the Rx-7 forums and PM'd Bryan from BNR Supercars about doing bolt-on Greddy upgrades:
"I can't seem to post being a newby so do this for me. Tell them I can set them up with a great upgrade that will greatly improve flow over that 18G. I can do a 50 trim or a 60-1 compressor wheels. Both would work the best for low boost applications. I have upgraded thrust components for durability. I can clip the turbines to reduce back pressure and make sure everything is balanced perfectly so they will last a long time. The 18G is just too small for a rotary... We do many Greddy turbocharger upgrades and all the turbocharger work is done in-house. My email address is BNRsupercars@aol.com
Take care,
Bryan@BNR
205 640 1193"
maybe Bryan will start posting on here soon and can directly answer questions.
"I can't seem to post being a newby so do this for me. Tell them I can set them up with a great upgrade that will greatly improve flow over that 18G. I can do a 50 trim or a 60-1 compressor wheels. Both would work the best for low boost applications. I have upgraded thrust components for durability. I can clip the turbines to reduce back pressure and make sure everything is balanced perfectly so they will last a long time. The 18G is just too small for a rotary... We do many Greddy turbocharger upgrades and all the turbocharger work is done in-house. My email address is BNRsupercars@aol.com
Take care,
Bryan@BNR
205 640 1193"
maybe Bryan will start posting on here soon and can directly answer questions.
01-28-2009, 12:33 AM
#130
i'm not sure if he has, that's all he sent me in the PM. But he does bolt-on upgraded GT28-based (or so I have been told) twins for FD's and 60-1 based bolton upgrades for FC's. He also owns an FC running one of his own hybrids.
01-28-2009, 12:58 AM
#131
This may be the "50 trim" Bryan was referring to. It has a 54mm inducer, 76 mm exducer . That is a 3" wheel so I guess you would need a 3" inlet compressor housing and then figure out the plumbing and MAF sensor stuff for that. I wonder if this is the stage 1 or 2 wheel used on his 2nd gen hybrid turbos (stage 3 and 4 use the 60-1 wheel)
60-1 compressor map (60mm inducer, 76mm exducer, 60 trim, 3" wheel) again:
GT3071 compressor map (GT 3071 is 53mm inducer, 71mm exducer, 56 trim, ~2.75" wheel) again:
Last edited by arghx7; 01-28-2009 at 01:09 AM.
01-29-2009, 08:34 AM
#132
more from Brian:
"I can't seem to still post on the RX8 board. I have messaged them, and anywhere on that site I cant do any posting whatsoever.
I have done 2 of the Greddy RX8 units. I did a 20G to one and a 50 trim to the other. Both of those can be fitted to the factory compressor housing so it is bolt up w/o fabrication. The 60-1 requires a 2.75 inlet. I have pictures of the build up, but cant seem to find them. I have done 4 or 5 stock CHRA replacements on them. The turbine wheels are good for 350 RWHP on a rotary after clipping. The 50 Trim is only good for 300-315 RWHP on a rotary. The 60-1 will do 400 RWHP with bigger turbine wheel, but with that TD06H turbine, it will end up making 350 RWHP max. Thats if the boost is around 12-13 psi, which is a lot for an RX8 with high compression rotors it will make 350ish. I can see you breaking 300 RWHP at around 10 psi on a 60-1. Both compressors are great, but the 60-1 is just about perfect for a 13B. The actual turbo isn't designed for a whole lot of power, but it can be improved in many ways...
Bryan@BNR
205 640 1193"
so that's two options for the stock compressor housing and the highest output will require a 2.75" inlet
"I can't seem to still post on the RX8 board. I have messaged them, and anywhere on that site I cant do any posting whatsoever.
I have done 2 of the Greddy RX8 units. I did a 20G to one and a 50 trim to the other. Both of those can be fitted to the factory compressor housing so it is bolt up w/o fabrication. The 60-1 requires a 2.75 inlet. I have pictures of the build up, but cant seem to find them. I have done 4 or 5 stock CHRA replacements on them. The turbine wheels are good for 350 RWHP on a rotary after clipping. The 50 Trim is only good for 300-315 RWHP on a rotary. The 60-1 will do 400 RWHP with bigger turbine wheel, but with that TD06H turbine, it will end up making 350 RWHP max. Thats if the boost is around 12-13 psi, which is a lot for an RX8 with high compression rotors it will make 350ish. I can see you breaking 300 RWHP at around 10 psi on a 60-1. Both compressors are great, but the 60-1 is just about perfect for a 13B. The actual turbo isn't designed for a whole lot of power, but it can be improved in many ways...
Bryan@BNR
205 640 1193"
so that's two options for the stock compressor housing and the highest output will require a 2.75" inlet
Last edited by arghx7; 01-29-2009 at 08:40 AM.
01-30-2009, 09:29 AM
#135
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more from Brian:
"I can't seem to still post on the RX8 board. I have messaged them, and anywhere on that site I cant do any posting whatsoever.
I have done 2 of the Greddy RX8 units. I did a 20G to one and a 50 trim to the other. Both of those can be fitted to the factory compressor housing so it is bolt up w/o fabrication. The 60-1 requires a 2.75 inlet. I have pictures of the build up, but cant seem to find them. I have done 4 or 5 stock CHRA replacements on them. The turbine wheels are good for 350 RWHP on a rotary after clipping. The 50 Trim is only good for 300-315 RWHP on a rotary. The 60-1 will do 400 RWHP with bigger turbine wheel, but with that TD06H turbine, it will end up making 350 RWHP max. Thats if the boost is around 12-13 psi, which is a lot for an RX8 with high compression rotors it will make 350ish. I can see you breaking 300 RWHP at around 10 psi on a 60-1. Both compressors are great, but the 60-1 is just about perfect for a 13B. The actual turbo isn't designed for a whole lot of power, but it can be improved in many ways...
Bryan@BNR
205 640 1193"
so that's two options for the stock compressor housing and the highest output will require a 2.75" inlet
"I can't seem to still post on the RX8 board. I have messaged them, and anywhere on that site I cant do any posting whatsoever.
I have done 2 of the Greddy RX8 units. I did a 20G to one and a 50 trim to the other. Both of those can be fitted to the factory compressor housing so it is bolt up w/o fabrication. The 60-1 requires a 2.75 inlet. I have pictures of the build up, but cant seem to find them. I have done 4 or 5 stock CHRA replacements on them. The turbine wheels are good for 350 RWHP on a rotary after clipping. The 50 Trim is only good for 300-315 RWHP on a rotary. The 60-1 will do 400 RWHP with bigger turbine wheel, but with that TD06H turbine, it will end up making 350 RWHP max. Thats if the boost is around 12-13 psi, which is a lot for an RX8 with high compression rotors it will make 350ish. I can see you breaking 300 RWHP at around 10 psi on a 60-1. Both compressors are great, but the 60-1 is just about perfect for a 13B. The actual turbo isn't designed for a whole lot of power, but it can be improved in many ways...
Bryan@BNR
205 640 1193"
so that's two options for the stock compressor housing and the highest output will require a 2.75" inlet
A 60-1 with a clipped turbine sounds very nice, provided there is no fitment issue with Greddy manifold.
01-30-2009, 02:19 PM
#136
Not sure if I read this right but what I interpreted was that you can modify the stock Greddy housing into a 60-1 and it will out perform the 3071 efficiency wise but it will be limited to 350hp because the turbine would be too small .
I'm thinking the cost of this + the fact you still have a journal bearing turbo will kill any demand for such a thing ....
I'm thinking the cost of this + the fact you still have a journal bearing turbo will kill any demand for such a thing ....
Last edited by Brettus; 01-30-2009 at 02:28 PM.
01-30-2009, 06:58 PM
#137
I have my doubts a 60-1 will fit in the GReddy location. Space is stupid tight, you can tell people this all day long but you don't realize how tight it is until you actually try and sling a snail up in there.
This is the best pic I have of the tolerances, it's not great but you get an idea.
That's the Garrett GT3071R-WG, and about half a day worth of hammering the floor out of the way.
This is the best pic I have of the tolerances, it's not great but you get an idea.
That's the Garrett GT3071R-WG, and about half a day worth of hammering the floor out of the way.
01-30-2009, 09:24 PM
#138
I'm not going to put words in Bryan's mouth, but what I understand is (and this is my own take on the matter only):
On an Rx-8 he has personally done both the 20G compressor wheel and a 50 trim wheel, presumably the T04E compressor map I posted. That is with the stock compressor and turbine housings and I presume a 360 degree thrust bearing. The 18G turbine wheel was clipped and the turbine housing was ported, but everything bolted up. Power output was 300whp-ish.
He is also proposing that the 60-1 would be usable, but I don't think he has actually done it yet for this exact application.
http://www.turbocharged.com/catalog/comp_wheels.html
Based on that turbonetics catalog of compressor wheels, I'm thinking he would be using the standard shaft T04B 60-1 HiFi. That means fitting a compressor housing with a 2.75" inlet (same size as the the 3071?). You would still have a ported Greddy Turbine housing with a clipped 18G turbine wheel, but it may be possible to install a larger one. Would there be clearance issues due to the larger compressor housing? I'm not sure, but there is a chance. But you may be able to use a spacer for the turbine hosing (possibly requiring modified oil/coolant lines etc) to alleviate that.
On an Rx-8 he has personally done both the 20G compressor wheel and a 50 trim wheel, presumably the T04E compressor map I posted. That is with the stock compressor and turbine housings and I presume a 360 degree thrust bearing. The 18G turbine wheel was clipped and the turbine housing was ported, but everything bolted up. Power output was 300whp-ish.
He is also proposing that the 60-1 would be usable, but I don't think he has actually done it yet for this exact application.
http://www.turbocharged.com/catalog/comp_wheels.html
Based on that turbonetics catalog of compressor wheels, I'm thinking he would be using the standard shaft T04B 60-1 HiFi. That means fitting a compressor housing with a 2.75" inlet (same size as the the 3071?). You would still have a ported Greddy Turbine housing with a clipped 18G turbine wheel, but it may be possible to install a larger one. Would there be clearance issues due to the larger compressor housing? I'm not sure, but there is a chance. But you may be able to use a spacer for the turbine hosing (possibly requiring modified oil/coolant lines etc) to alleviate that.
Last edited by arghx7; 01-30-2009 at 09:30 PM.
01-30-2009, 11:23 PM
#139
With the 3071, the compressor housing clears the middle exhaust manifold runner by thousandths of an inch. There is just enough room to glide a length of floss inbetween. The tolerances are so tight MM has to have the back of the compressor housing machined down to clearance, even with a slight spacing on the manifold turbine joint.
There just really isn't anymore room down there for anything. I am pretty confident the 3071 is the largest turbo you're getting there without taking a plasma cutter to the floor/serious sheet metal modification. If you used a larger spacer for compressor housing clearance the turbine housing will contact the floor.
As it stands, with the 3071, I had to use a mallet and hammer to move the floor out of the way by about an inch if not more, and it's still tight. It's just a small location, and the 3 runners of the Renesis make packaging a manifold even more difficult.
A 60-1 would best be suited for a top-mounted manifold setup, where it can be paired to an ideal turbine housing and the turbos full potential can be reached.
There just really isn't anymore room down there for anything. I am pretty confident the 3071 is the largest turbo you're getting there without taking a plasma cutter to the floor/serious sheet metal modification. If you used a larger spacer for compressor housing clearance the turbine housing will contact the floor.
As it stands, with the 3071, I had to use a mallet and hammer to move the floor out of the way by about an inch if not more, and it's still tight. It's just a small location, and the 3 runners of the Renesis make packaging a manifold even more difficult.
A 60-1 would best be suited for a top-mounted manifold setup, where it can be paired to an ideal turbine housing and the turbos full potential can be reached.
02-02-2009, 12:00 PM
#141
Turbocharger Guru
Hybrid turbochargers
Hey Guys.
I can finally post after a week. I do similar turbos to these RX8 greddy units very often. I have all parts to do hybrids in stock most of the time. I did a turbine wheel replacement and a rebuild on a CHRA last week for an RX8. The turbo has lots of potential. I can fit the 50 trim in the greddy housing with ease. I may have to change up compressor housings for the 60-1. Its been a while since I have see the compressor housing off the 8 greddy kit. Does anyone have a picture on one that way it would refresh my memory?
Bryan@BNR
I can finally post after a week. I do similar turbos to these RX8 greddy units very often. I have all parts to do hybrids in stock most of the time. I did a turbine wheel replacement and a rebuild on a CHRA last week for an RX8. The turbo has lots of potential. I can fit the 50 trim in the greddy housing with ease. I may have to change up compressor housings for the 60-1. Its been a while since I have see the compressor housing off the 8 greddy kit. Does anyone have a picture on one that way it would refresh my memory?
Bryan@BNR
02-02-2009, 12:06 PM
#142
02-02-2009, 12:20 PM
#145
Actually both. I love the idea that we are getting some more info out there about real options for the turbo's. Cost is likely cheaper than the 3071R; and if the new thrust bearings can handle more than 8K before going out... this is a real option for those who can't / don't want to wait for the 3071R... it is a nice turbo - but not worth a year+ wait time IMO.
02-02-2009, 12:22 PM
#146
Actually both. I love the idea that we are getting some more info out there about real options for the turbo's. Cost is likely cheaper than the 3071R; and if the new thrust bearings can handle more than 8K before going out... this is a real option for those who can't / don't want to wait for the 3071R... it is a nice turbo - but not worth a year+ wait time IMO.
he said he would stand by his work and said it will not blow out at 12K...I am going to go for it. Sounds promising for sure.
02-02-2009, 12:25 PM
#148
Hey guys, I have to repost this, because it is full of awesome. (see bold print 
)
)I just talked to tim of tim's turbo's on the phone and he said it would cost about 650 for a complete rebuild plus all the upgrades...with a 2 day turnaround time once it's recieved!
he said he would stand by his work and said it will not blow out at 12K...I am going to go for it. Sounds promising for sure.
he said he would stand by his work and said it will not blow out at 12K...I am going to go for it. Sounds promising for sure.
02-02-2009, 12:26 PM
#149