blackenedwings

Cool man, thats all good. Believe it or not I don't regret all the work I put into my RX-8 either. It was the car that got me into cars, and I learned so much about them from the experience. It was an expensive lesson, and for me at least, I was trying to make the RX-8 something it wasn't. I totally understand the right car for a person is individual. Nobody can change what you love about a car. For me the Evo is exactly what I wanted when I started modifying the RX-8 and I felt like the OP needed the advice up front from someone who went down the road and wasn't happy in the long run. All in love.

bose

iTrader: (5)

Glad you found what you wanted at least with the evo, they can be quite the monster for sure. I've always been a fan a strange stuff so they rotary is right in my wheelhouse, I just want it a little bit faster.

And your right the flat billed hats and white framed sunglasses are more of a subie thing, although a lot of MS3 guy foot the bill as well.

Carbon8

iTrader: (4)

Support the brand MS6, was a fun car. But nothing compared to the 8.

blackenedwings

Yeah man, my Evo is kinda built up like an RX-8 in a way. I have a built 2.0L motor that can spin to 9k rpms and I love boost so small displacement turbo motors are my favorite. I've gotten pretty addicted to AWD too. Rotaries are really cool and for dedicated track cars I think they are pretty hard to beat. The low center of gravity, high effective displacement, and high rpms are awesome, especially in a small lightweight platform. I know RIWWP has talked about doing an NA Renesis swap into an Exocet chassis at some point, and that would be a beast.

Hah, the MS3 guys crack me up. There is one in my neighborhood that revs at me all the time, and yes he has a flat billed hat. A lot of the Subaru guys are the worst though. The shop that sponsors me does a ton of work with Subaru's and some of their customers are hilarious.

bose

iTrader: (5)

I have Rally Sport Direct right down the street from me, and they sell parts for Evo's, STi's and MS3's mostly, but do much more than that. I buy parts from there a lot but at least half or more of the subie guys are that way, everytime I go down there I get revved at like crazy.

jayrerickson

The more I think about it, I don't think I'm going turbo.

Just having such high compression really puts a damper on turbo set ups. The tune would have to be crazy adjusting everything you can so you don't detonate. And just the fact that the motor is weak.

I decided to just build an OEM motor with a n2o setup. Then upgrade the suspension and replace all supporting parts. Do a little bondo work and repaint to metallic black.

It sucks as there are not many cars with this style (I like it). We will see when I'm done. Might like it enough to do a swap.

On a side note,

I was thinking of the heating issue. On my mx6 the cooling system flowed in a way where when you take out the thermostat you wouldn't get heat spots on a free flowing system.

Would this be ok on the rx8? To run with out a thermostat all together?

Look at what the parts fairy dropped off. A brand new water pump. How nice of him/her.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

No, it's not a good idea. The ECU uses the coolant temp for quite a bit of adjustment, and no thermostat will have a negative impact on much of that.

jayrerickson

Is there anything you can change in the tune?

Running no thermostat would dramatically improve motor temps.

What does the ECU adjust with coolant temps? Only thing I can think of is for cold starts and fan control.

Man this car is acting more and more like my women.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Dude, you have to do some research. Try and get a better understanding of how the RX-8 cooling system works, there are many threads on the thermostat issue. If the cooling system is working as it should be, the car should have no cooling issues. now if you are adding heat to the coolant VIA a turbo and making much more horsepower then you may want to look at upgrading the fans, radiator, etc. But nitrous use would not warrant that.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I'm not referring to "trigger points". Even ignoring the significantly longer time to warm up, yes, the ECU uses the info all over the place.

I think you are finally starting to understand

jayrerickson

No need to search, I got my answer.

Every motor will benefit from having cooler temps, even stock.

This one has its system tied in with the ecu. Changing fuel, timing, ext... Making it more efficient for mpg and emissions.

The problem with this is there is no point in getting fans, It will just cool it down faster to operating temps. Temps itself will stay the same.

Radiator is the same deal. I could get a high flow but why? Yes it will lower temps but once the wax inside the thermo hardens, it will close the thermostat to warm it back up.

The only time you would need one is if you are creating enough heat where the stock rad cant cool it down enough having the thermostat wide open all the time. Rare and not likely for street applications.

That sucks. So the only way around it is a stand alone system. Basically building your own ecu and using the sensors you want. Another headache thats not worth the time and money .

Will a lower thermostat be ok? Or will that mess the readings up for the ecu? Thinking like a 180 thermostat.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

The thermostat is not controlled by the ECU, it's a normal thermostat. Fueling, etc. is changed by the ECU depending on readings from various sensors.

Upgraded fans made a world of difference for me. Not in lowering temps to make the engine temps run cooler really, but more so in the fact that my FAL fans setup will cool the engine down with a quickness where as it would take much longer with the stock fans to get temps down so I could pound on her some more. Everything works together to keep the car cool so look at everything and how it works together.

But I have other cooling mods as well and my secondary radiator is what really helped in insuring overall temps never exceed 210F because it is on the heater circuit and always cooling. But in South Texas I don't deal with winter so overcooling is not an issue for me.

Carbon8

iTrader: (4)

If any prior planning was done, the OP wouldn't have bought an OEM water pump since he is so concerned with cooling.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Honestly I think the mazmart pump is largely hype. I have it but the updated Mazda pump works just fine. I never really saw any difference after I installed the mazmart pump and thermostat. My next project is an electric pump setup.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

This is good on an NA setup where ever last hp counts - can't see much point on a turboed car .

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

I read up to this point and laughed my **** off .

Carbon8

iTrader: (4)

For the price over OEM, I would get the RE-medy pump and Tstat every time.

Why did the OP even buy a new OEM pump, I've never heard of one going bad. Waste of money to replace a old working pump with the same pump.

Complains about dropping 100 bucks on a compression test, yet replaces working components with newer working components.

That logic is undeniable

jayrerickson

You guys are something else.

Its one thing to buy a water pump that is cheap for preventative failure (many more unbroken parts will be replaced). And another to put a car back together get it towed to a dealer waste over a $100 for them to tell me something I already know, then spend more to get it towed back and be in the exact position that I am in now.

Does this make any sense to any of you?
If you want to come by, put my car back together, get it to the dealer, pay for the test, have me laugh at you saying I told you so. I will have no problem with that.

Some of you need to lay off the BS because to me, you sound like a big ***.

I built a few cars/motors in my past and have never delt with this kind of stuff on forums. It really shows what kind of people are in this community. Do you really want newbies to see you this way?

Just because you have a high post count doesn't give you the right to treat people like crap. With any post count doesn't give you the right. I don't care if you have the best rx8 in the world, you still give people respect.

If you do have a high post count and have a nice 8, its more reason to act your age and stop being a fing high school punk. I mean what the hell, are we 16 again!!!

No I don't have all the answers. That's way I started this thread, to get the most up to date info as I build. 3 year old threads are not going to cut it.

Some of you have given great info and I cant thank you enough for it. Some of you need to get your wewe wet, get back to your man hood and stop acting like a women

Its a shocker when the truth is told

jayrerickson

I never said that I was so concerned.

I asked what the main problems were and heat was one of them. Was thinking of things I have done to other projects.

I got my answer, to much time and effort/$ to make a real difference. Now we have moved on from that. A stock system is what it is going to be.

I wasn't even talking about the pump, I was talking about the thermostat.

I mean what is a high flow pump going to do when you have a thermostat controlling temps and then the ecu will go out of wake when the temps change.

If you read the whole thread, you would of saw my first ideas and which were not good. Ended up just building a stock block with OEM parts. Maybe a port job.

Like I said, I'm going to start from the bottom up and see what I come up with. Plan for what I have and be realistic, not what I want.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

It's not nice to ridicule people that are trying to help you. If you are having problems getting answers to your question. Maybe you should restate your question in a different way.

Removing a thermostat should only be used as a troubleshooting aid. A thermostat is used to help bring the engine up to a certain temperature sooner. Unless it's bad and restricts flow, it will not cause an engine to over heat. It is designed by Mazda to allow the engine to run at a temperature where it is most efficient.

jayrerickson

I understand what your saying. I appreciate the help from the people helping. Its the few posts that have no reason to be there. Trying to make me look like a fool when in reality they are the fool. Every other post I see from them is trying to put another down.

At this point all my questions have been answered and cant thank you guys enough for the help. Just waiting for the hoist and more ?s will come. Once I crack her open.

I understand what you are saying with the cooling system 100%.

I was asking because on my last Mazda I was able to run with out a thermo. That ECU was very forgiving. To the point were a map on an eprom was enough to tune the whole thing. Very easy project to work on. But on this one, yeah very limited

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

Good luck mounting the engine to your engine stand.

The main problem with the RX-8 is people have done certain mods because it "looks" like it will work better (RE-waterpump). But there's never been any data acquired across a large range of cars for the majority of the aftermarket parts out there. If something works for one person its not necessarily going to work for the next...

You will start forming your own crackpot ideas once you get the engine apart I am sure of it.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Exactly. Anyone want to buy a turbo sump pump? or two?

DailyDriver2k5

I disagree about the Atkins seals being junk. I have them in my BP Renesis right now, just clocked over 21k miles on them , no issues at all, no hard starts cold or hot. My car spins 10k rpm on the daily without no issues.Running there 2mm Cryogenic applied apex seals and side seals. I think people like most people on this forum , don't really know how to install the seals properly which lead to catastrophic engine failure too early.

If you want long lasting apex seals that will handle boost , I would recommend Black Apex seals. Most top rotary drag racers have these in there engine, they can handle the abuse and the boost. There costly but worth it.

Look up New Generation Racing, Flacko Racing, Goopy Performance(Great rotary shop in the NE), GRS motorsports. Talk to these guys if you are serious about creating major HP out of a rotary using turbo applications.
All these guys make 6 sec 1/4 mile rotary cars, so I think they know a thing or two about turbo performance, especially New Generation with there Renesis Turbo drag car.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

You only disagree because you didn't have a problem with yours. Problems with them are well documented here and elsewhere. Sure they get them right some times but how Dan handled my buddies situation was very disappointing. You ever dyno that BP?


10,000RPM? , ,