The Time Has Come (Building From Bottom Up)
05-06-2013, 05:04 PM
#26
05-06-2013, 05:59 PM
#27
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Iirc, the harness you refer to leads to the neutral and reverse switch's , there is a connector to separate them just under the firewall behind the UIM. Yes, you can drop the motor out of the bottom,it's best done with the vehicle on a hoist.
05-07-2013, 09:31 AM
#28
Should have searched these first, also the answer is no the engine will not drop down from the bottom. LIM cannot be removed while the engine is in the car thus limiting movability and not allowing the E-Shaft hub to clear the crossmember.
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tec...w-pics-178937/
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tec...ctures-178945/
Another note, besides seals you will need to disassemble and inspect everything, understand the tolerances and limits on the housings and the irons. Also any damage or cracking around the plug holes. If reusable they will need to be sent out to resurface (not sure who does this) as the housing have a chrome finish on them. Also the bearings are just like seals, never reuse them. Depending on what happens when you crack her open will determine how much the price of this build sky rockets.
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tec...w-pics-178937/
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tec...ctures-178945/
Another note, besides seals you will need to disassemble and inspect everything, understand the tolerances and limits on the housings and the irons. Also any damage or cracking around the plug holes. If reusable they will need to be sent out to resurface (not sure who does this) as the housing have a chrome finish on them. Also the bearings are just like seals, never reuse them. Depending on what happens when you crack her open will determine how much the price of this build sky rockets.
Last edited by Carbon8; 05-07-2013 at 09:39 AM.
05-07-2013, 09:33 AM
#29
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As for EGT's.
If you had both power adders next to each other on different motors. Both produces 50hp more. The n2o will have lower EGT's.
One is a super cooled gas and the other is hot compressed air. One has a free flowing exhaust as the other has back pressure, heating up just from the system itself.
If you had both power adders next to each other on different motors. Both produces 50hp more. The n2o will have lower EGT's.
One is a super cooled gas and the other is hot compressed air. One has a free flowing exhaust as the other has back pressure, heating up just from the system itself.
past a certain point, I don't doubt that having two engines (one turbo, one nitrous) will show the nitrous to have a cooler EGT - but I suspect it will only be past the point where the turbocharged one starts making more power. at the end of the day, you're still forcing the engine to create a bigger BANG!, a by-product of which is more power and a by-product of more power is more heat. to me, intake temperature seems pretty irrelevant to EGT.
the other thing is, I know many people use nitrous to help spool up BIG turbos, but I would tend to agree with what 9krpmrx8 implied, which is using them in tandem at all times will be a tuning nightmare. the premise is a good one, but it appears execution may be more akin to poking a beehive with a stick. you're already dealing with quite a pickle in having a turbocharged, high compression rotary that has a hard enough time keeping itself cool when N/A.
lastly, and I realize this is nitpicking
, but why do you keep referring to a bottom end?
05-07-2013, 09:39 AM
#30
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In order to drop the engine from the bottom you have to drop the whole subframe and front suspension with it.
05-07-2013, 09:58 AM
#32
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i'm honestly not trying to turn this into a debate, and I admit that nitrous oxide is not a subject that I've traditionally been interested in, but I still don't get it.
past a certain point, I don't doubt that having two engines (one turbo, one nitrous) will show the nitrous to have a cooler EGT - but I suspect it will only be past the point where the turbocharged one starts making more power. at the end of the day, you're still forcing the engine to create a bigger BANG!, a by-product of which is more power and a by-product of more power is more heat. to me, intake temperature seems pretty irrelevant to EGT.
the other thing is, I know many people use nitrous to help spool up BIG turbos, but I would tend to agree with what 9krpmrx8 implied, which is using them in tandem at all times will be a tuning nightmare. the premise is a good one, but it appears execution may be more akin to poking a beehive with a stick. you're already dealing with quite a pickle in having a turbocharged, high compression rotary that has a hard enough time keeping itself cool when N/A.
lastly, and I realize this is nitpicking, but why do you keep referring to a bottom end?
past a certain point, I don't doubt that having two engines (one turbo, one nitrous) will show the nitrous to have a cooler EGT - but I suspect it will only be past the point where the turbocharged one starts making more power. at the end of the day, you're still forcing the engine to create a bigger BANG!, a by-product of which is more power and a by-product of more power is more heat. to me, intake temperature seems pretty irrelevant to EGT.
the other thing is, I know many people use nitrous to help spool up BIG turbos, but I would tend to agree with what 9krpmrx8 implied, which is using them in tandem at all times will be a tuning nightmare. the premise is a good one, but it appears execution may be more akin to poking a beehive with a stick. you're already dealing with quite a pickle in having a turbocharged, high compression rotary that has a hard enough time keeping itself cool when N/A.
lastly, and I realize this is nitpicking
, but why do you keep referring to a bottom end?
05-07-2013, 10:14 AM
#38
I suppose it was a vague response that could have been misconstrued. Yes it is possible, you double the difficulty and the amount of components needed to do it but it can be done. It also requires a lift and a trolley cart capable of supporting the front subframe and adjusting it. its a job most cannot do in ones own garage.
The motor itself however will not fit out of the bottom for my above post reasons, hence the guide's I referenced the OP to to save him that hassle.
The motor itself however will not fit out of the bottom for my above post reasons, hence the guide's I referenced the OP to to save him that hassle.
05-07-2013, 12:40 PM
#40
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I will wait for the hoist. I knew you can drop it with the sub frame. Was wondering if it can be done with out the sub frame.
So far I got the starter, cat and harness out. The cat has been gutted already. Next will be the trans.
I do realize I need to replace all the seals and bearings. What I'm trying to figure out is, what is the best combination of seals and bearings. What can be done to make it more reliable under stressful conditions.
So far I got the starter, cat and harness out. The cat has been gutted already. Next will be the trans.
I do realize I need to replace all the seals and bearings. What I'm trying to figure out is, what is the best combination of seals and bearings. What can be done to make it more reliable under stressful conditions.
05-07-2013, 01:12 PM
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I guess I didn't remember correctly . Jay, if this is your 1st time removing the engine, I would suggest dropping the sub frame with it, this way you have more room to play with the fiddly bits when you reconnect the engine harness. We all have opinions, and this is mine. When you remove the trans, you will need a super long extension to get to the bolts at the top of the tranny, I would remove them first.
05-07-2013, 01:12 PM
#42
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More important than the parts used is how it is built and the attention to detail during that rebuild. You don't seem like the most detail oriented guy so it is probably best to leave this type of things to a professional. But if you are willing to take the risk and learn something new then you need to read the info already here and elsewhere and try an make an informed decision. But it is really tough because no one has been able to make a turbocharged Renesis last very long.
05-07-2013, 01:32 PM
#44
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I guess I didn't remember correctly . Jay, if this is your 1st time removing the engine, I would suggest dropping the sub frame with it, this way you have more room to play with the fiddly bits when you reconnect the engine harness. We all have opinions, and this is mine. When you remove the trans, you will need a super long extension to get to the bolts at the top of the tranny, I would remove them first.
The harness is easy to remove and easy to install, there really are no connections that are tough to get to.
05-07-2013, 01:46 PM
#46
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More important than the parts used is how it is built and the attention to detail during that rebuild. You don't seem like the most detail oriented guy so it is probably best to leave this type of things to a professional. But if you are willing to take the risk and learn something new then you need to read the info already here and elsewhere and try an make an informed decision. But it is really tough because no one has been able to make a turbocharged Renesis last very long.
I'm very confident in myself that I can rebuild this motor. Not only rebuild but to make improvements. Its about the price that is involved. If I need new rotors I will try to get these Aluminum 13b Renesis rotor pair billet CNC ultra light 10:1. Might as well go big if you are already spending the money.
For now I am assuming that the rotors and housings are ok. There has to be something that can be modified but wont brake the bank and raise reliability. Like better bearings, dual springs, anything? Talk about details, just even the brand matters.
All I'm hearing is OEM, that sucks
.
05-07-2013, 01:57 PM
#48
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I guess I didn't remember correctly . Jay, if this is your 1st time removing the engine, I would suggest dropping the sub frame with it, this way you have more room to play with the fiddly bits when you reconnect the engine harness. We all have opinions, and this is mine. When you remove the trans, you will need a super long extension to get to the bolts at the top of the tranny, I would remove them first.
I would never attempt to take the entire sub frame down with it. I dont have the right equipment to do so.
The reason I asked is, the block looks like it would just fall through the bottom with out the trans and x member.
But you guys say it wont fit, means it wont fit. I just want to crack her open to see exactly what parts I need or replace.
Last edited by jayrerickson; 05-07-2013 at 02:09 PM.
05-07-2013, 01:59 PM
#49
It is about clearance and placement, how to check specs. Its really no different then a piston motor. I showed you the video for the 20 over 11.1 pistons. A bit of math went into that one when stock is a flat top piston 10.1. Making a dome with big valve pockets to match the size of the lob for the cam and having it .012 from the plug. Details matter.
I'm very confident in myself that I can rebuild this motor. Not only rebuild but to make improvements. Its about the price that is involved. If I need new rotors I will try to get these Aluminum 13b Renesis rotor pair billet CNC ultra light 10:1. Might as well go big if you are already spending the money.
For now I am assuming that the rotors and housings are ok. There has to be something that can be modified but wont brake the bank and raise reliability. Like better bearings, dual springs, anything? Talk about details, just even the brand matters.
All I'm hearing is OEM, that sucks.
I'm very confident in myself that I can rebuild this motor. Not only rebuild but to make improvements. Its about the price that is involved. If I need new rotors I will try to get these Aluminum 13b Renesis rotor pair billet CNC ultra light 10:1. Might as well go big if you are already spending the money.
For now I am assuming that the rotors and housings are ok. There has to be something that can be modified but wont brake the bank and raise reliability. Like better bearings, dual springs, anything? Talk about details, just even the brand matters.
All I'm hearing is OEM, that sucks
.Just know that all of the things you are planning on doing don't exist or don't need to be done.
05-07-2013, 02:06 PM
#50
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Those Ebay rotors looked damaged already and there is no problem with the Renesis rotors so why would you bother?
If you want to experiment then go ahead. But if you think rebuilding piston engines relates in some way to building a rotary then you are sadly mistaken. I often hear how easy rebuilding rotaries is, but rebuilding them to last is another animal all together.
If you want to experiment then go ahead. But if you think rebuilding piston engines relates in some way to building a rotary then you are sadly mistaken. I often hear how easy rebuilding rotaries is, but rebuilding them to last is another animal all together.