ShellDude's 4AT to 6 MT Turbo Thread
02-28-2015, 12:44 PM
#51
You need to have two outputs available because the APV motor has to be driven both open and closed. Otherwise Adaptronic should be able to tell you how to set it up. Believe I saw it before on their forum. Running four injectors should be fine by just zeroing out the secondary sizing and using the P1/P2 wiring. The ID1000 will fit into the iron position and you can leave OE injectors in to fill rail positions if you so choose.
I didn't have the option of the iron positions with the ID1300. Running only one pair of injectors like I intend to do requires modifying some of the WARI settings from standard configuration. Still not quite there yet. Was intending to try and get the engine in today, but the heavy snow (what we call heavy, you northern folks would rofl) and now ice today has me a bit demotivated ....
.
I didn't have the option of the iron positions with the ID1300. Running only one pair of injectors like I intend to do requires modifying some of the WARI settings from standard configuration. Still not quite there yet. Was intending to try and get the engine in today, but the heavy snow (what we call heavy, you northern folks would rofl) and now ice today has me a bit demotivated ....
.
02-28-2015, 08:15 PM
#52
weeeeeeeeee
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
I've got the triggers all setup for the APV in WARI and wired into the Adaptronic so it should just work. Won't really know for certain until I can put down some serious power though.
The Adaptronic injector test indicates all 6 injectors are firing too. Initial setup is the stock P1s, 4 port Secondaries in P2, and ID1000s in Secondaries.
If things get complicated fueling wise I'll do similar to what you suggest. Since I VE tune the fuel table it'll all get worked out in the underlying conversions... even if it's wrong. I should know if the flow is screwed up if I end up with wonky VE values in the map.
The Adaptronic injector test indicates all 6 injectors are firing too. Initial setup is the stock P1s, 4 port Secondaries in P2, and ID1000s in Secondaries.
If things get complicated fueling wise I'll do similar to what you suggest. Since I VE tune the fuel table it'll all get worked out in the underlying conversions... even if it's wrong. I should know if the flow is screwed up if I end up with wonky VE values in the map.
03-08-2015, 09:00 AM
#53
weeeeeeeeee
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Zoom zoom
Back on the road. I'm getting a misfire in the front rotor but you can't even feel it. Need to check wires, coils, ground, all the usuals.
Also have what is likely a permanent Traction control light ... At least until I bite the bullet and use a 6MT ecu and go thru the stupid Mazda IDS sync procedure.
Beyond that I have her home and am going thru basic road tuning for the next 1000 miles.
Back on the road. I'm getting a misfire in the front rotor but you can't even feel it. Need to check wires, coils, ground, all the usuals.
Also have what is likely a permanent Traction control light ... At least until I bite the bullet and use a 6MT ecu and go thru the stupid Mazda IDS sync procedure.
Beyond that I have her home and am going thru basic road tuning for the next 1000 miles.
03-09-2015, 07:13 AM
#55
FULLY SEMI AUTOMATIC
iTrader: (9)
grats shell cant wait to see it
03-14-2015, 04:38 PM
#56
weeeeeeeeee
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Suppressed the U0101 code today. No more persistent CEL.
Will research misfires tomorrow since it looks like we'll have some decent weather here.
In Mazdaedit U0101 is masked as C101. I initially suppressed P0101 thinking 0101 in the DTC table was for the U series.
Will research misfires tomorrow since it looks like we'll have some decent weather here.
In Mazdaedit U0101 is masked as C101. I initially suppressed P0101 thinking 0101 in the DTC table was for the U series.
04-01-2015, 08:24 PM
#57
weeeeeeeeee
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Solved the misfires.
put in new D585 (BHR) coils, swapped in my old wires - no change
20 brake stomp - misfires are gone
Go figure!
658 miles into the new motor. It responds much better to tuning than the 4 port did. When I hit 1k I'm going to do a few pulls and get some #s.
I still need to bypass the Adaptronic on the EVAP signal to get it to pass readiness with the new wiring harness.
And I've acquired a paired 6MT ECU and ABS module. I haven't decided yet the course I'm going to take with it. nycgps and I may meet up in September and I have to work out something with Epifan to transfer my MazdaEdit license.
put in new D585 (BHR) coils, swapped in my old wires - no change
20 brake stomp - misfires are gone
Go figure!
658 miles into the new motor. It responds much better to tuning than the 4 port did. When I hit 1k I'm going to do a few pulls and get some #s.
I still need to bypass the Adaptronic on the EVAP signal to get it to pass readiness with the new wiring harness.
And I've acquired a paired 6MT ECU and ABS module. I haven't decided yet the course I'm going to take with it. nycgps and I may meet up in September and I have to work out something with Epifan to transfer my MazdaEdit license.
04-05-2015, 11:50 AM
#61
weeeeeeeeee
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
I know that now. After replacing everything else it was all that was left and I felt pretty stupid afterwards. I did reset it immediately after the new engine was installed, but apparently it needed it again.
For whatever reason Adaptronic failed to pass thru those two pins. When I talked about it with Andy a few years ago he said it was because it was not labelled on the 2004 diagram he used for reference.
Without bypassing them the evap readiness test will never pass and you throw an evap low voltage DTC.
For whatever reason Adaptronic failed to pass thru those two pins. When I talked about it with Andy a few years ago he said it was because it was not labelled on the 2004 diagram he used for reference.
Without bypassing them the evap readiness test will never pass and you throw an evap low voltage DTC.
04-08-2015, 08:57 PM
#63
weeeeeeeeee
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
If you do not bypass 4D and 4H you'll throw the following code: P2401 - EVAP system leak detection pump control circuit low, and EVAP readiness will never complete, even if P2401 is masked.
Since doing the bypass this weekend my Large and Small leak tests have completed. I'm just waiting for Very Small (.02) to complete, likely tomorrow or Friday.
I hit 900 miles this morning. I dyno Tuesday to dial in WOT AF mixture.
Since doing the bypass this weekend my Large and Small leak tests have completed. I'm just waiting for Very Small (.02) to complete, likely tomorrow or Friday.
I hit 900 miles this morning. I dyno Tuesday to dial in WOT AF mixture.
Last edited by ShellDude; 04-09-2015 at 04:26 PM.
04-13-2015, 02:08 PM
#66
FULLY SEMI AUTOMATIC
iTrader: (9)
highway trip you say? take a drive up and let me check out the car shell
04-13-2015, 03:13 PM
#67
4AT Duarability?
I apologize for going a little off topic, but Shelldude, you lasted 50,000 miles with a turbo and the stock auto box? Were you concerned about blowing it out? I did see that you had the auxiliary cooler from BHR. Obviously that is no longer in production. Did you view that as a "must have?"
Thanks!
Chris
Thanks!
Chris
04-13-2015, 07:58 PM
#68
weeeeeeeeee
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Shitty part is that I had the stupid purge valve pass previously. Fsker still hasn't passed again. I've got a nice long drive planned for tomorrow so I hope it'll clear then.
I'll be in Lenhartsville tomorrow... Come see me put down some #s on the dyno!
hmm... 55,000 more or less.
The second oil cooler definitely is something to consider. There's not much to it. You can pull the right hand side cooler off a salvage 8, or buy one via a partout here easily enough (I got mine through a partout w/ the hoses). Kevin @ Rotary Resurrection hooked me up with some SS cooler lines right before I lost my motor and I have them installed now.
The upgraded radiator was a Griffin purchased through BHR, not an actual BHR production. There are plenty of comparable replacements out there.
Radiator upgrade was a nice to have. The second oil cooler is a must have.
I was never concerned about blowing out the motor. I ran the **** out of it from the day I bought the car w/ 8000 miles on it and I didn't get hung up on warranty (voided it very early on). In the end I had the same problems every other GReddy owner has... a shitty turbo that has to be rebuilt every 15,000 or so miles.
I knew my motor was going for quite some time... hell, I even knew it was the rear rotor all along too. At some point I simply decided I was going to run it and tune around low compression till it died.... this decision was made easily 30,000 miles before it actually crapped out. I even got a trip to DGRR out of it.
I was able to tune out warm start problems by throwing a ton of fuel into the cranking fuel table @ temp. Knock was minimal until the last 5,000 or so miles. In hindsight there at the end the knock sensor was jumping up to 150 and even maxing out under certain conditions (it is scaled 0 to 255). In comparison I can't get the knock sensor to budge with my rebuild.
I say run it till it dies then do the 6MT conversion. If you really want an auto then grab a 6 speed auto transmission to go with your 6 port motor.
-----
I'm pretty certain I know exactly what root cause for my motor failure was. After my first turbo rebuild (BNR upgrade) I ran up to Jersey to have MM tune it @ a JPR hosted tuning event. During that session we pinged (detonated) the rear rotor. Shortly after that I pulled my injectors and had them flow tested. My rear rotor secondary was flowing considerably less than it should've been.
I replaced them with ID1000s but the damage had already been done.
I've learned quite a bit through all of this, namely:
I apologize for going a little off topic, but Shelldude, you lasted 50,000 miles with a turbo and the stock auto box? Were you concerned about blowing it out? I did see that you had the auxiliary cooler from BHR. Obviously that is no longer in production. Did you view that as a "must have?"
Thanks!
Chris
Thanks!
Chris
The second oil cooler definitely is something to consider. There's not much to it. You can pull the right hand side cooler off a salvage 8, or buy one via a partout here easily enough (I got mine through a partout w/ the hoses). Kevin @ Rotary Resurrection hooked me up with some SS cooler lines right before I lost my motor and I have them installed now.
The upgraded radiator was a Griffin purchased through BHR, not an actual BHR production. There are plenty of comparable replacements out there.
Radiator upgrade was a nice to have. The second oil cooler is a must have.
I was never concerned about blowing out the motor. I ran the **** out of it from the day I bought the car w/ 8000 miles on it and I didn't get hung up on warranty (voided it very early on). In the end I had the same problems every other GReddy owner has... a shitty turbo that has to be rebuilt every 15,000 or so miles.
I knew my motor was going for quite some time... hell, I even knew it was the rear rotor all along too. At some point I simply decided I was going to run it and tune around low compression till it died.... this decision was made easily 30,000 miles before it actually crapped out. I even got a trip to DGRR out of it.
I was able to tune out warm start problems by throwing a ton of fuel into the cranking fuel table @ temp. Knock was minimal until the last 5,000 or so miles. In hindsight there at the end the knock sensor was jumping up to 150 and even maxing out under certain conditions (it is scaled 0 to 255). In comparison I can't get the knock sensor to budge with my rebuild.
I say run it till it dies then do the 6MT conversion. If you really want an auto then grab a 6 speed auto transmission to go with your 6 port motor.
-----
I'm pretty certain I know exactly what root cause for my motor failure was. After my first turbo rebuild (BNR upgrade) I ran up to Jersey to have MM tune it @ a JPR hosted tuning event. During that session we pinged (detonated) the rear rotor. Shortly after that I pulled my injectors and had them flow tested. My rear rotor secondary was flowing considerably less than it should've been.
I replaced them with ID1000s but the damage had already been done.
I've learned quite a bit through all of this, namely:
- Fuel Pressure, Oil Pressure, and Oil Temperature gauges are NOT optional
- Always flow test your injectors
- When Jeff says "you've got really weird AFRs" listen to him rather than push him
04-13-2015, 11:16 PM
#70
Second oil cooler is in my list. As is a radiator, possibly a dedicated trans cooler if I find a good way to do it.
I may have phrased it poorly, were you worried about blowing the automatic transmission? My mechanic (Ari at Rotary Perfor,acne) is very hesitant about a 4AT turbo build. He thinks I will go through transmissions too quickly. I can't seem to find good numbers on the power limit of the 4at. Mazda lowered the redline, but that's all I have found so far.
Your build is definitely something I am keeping in mind. I do a lot of stop and go freeway driving, and I don't think I want to deal with a clutch, so I'm stuck in slushbox land.
Thanks for the advice
I may have phrased it poorly, were you worried about blowing the automatic transmission? My mechanic (Ari at Rotary Perfor,acne) is very hesitant about a 4AT turbo build. He thinks I will go through transmissions too quickly. I can't seem to find good numbers on the power limit of the 4at. Mazda lowered the redline, but that's all I have found so far.
Your build is definitely something I am keeping in mind. I do a lot of stop and go freeway driving, and I don't think I want to deal with a clutch, so I'm stuck in slushbox land.
Thanks for the advice
04-13-2015, 11:21 PM
#71
weeeeeeeeee
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
you're more than welcome to buy my old one: https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-parts-s...-miles-257258/
transmission was solid throughout.
transmission was solid throughout.
04-14-2015, 12:24 AM
#73
weeeeeeeeee
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Second oil cooler is in my list. As is a radiator, possibly a dedicated trans cooler if I find a good way to do it.
I may have phrased it poorly, were you worried about blowing the automatic transmission? My mechanic (Ari at Rotary Perfor,acne) is very hesitant about a 4AT turbo build. He thinks I will go through transmissions too quickly. I can't seem to find good numbers on the power limit of the 4at. Mazda lowered the redline, but that's all I have found so far.
Your build is definitely something I am keeping in mind. I do a lot of stop and go freeway driving, and I don't think I want to deal with a clutch, so I'm stuck in slushbox land.
Thanks for the advice
I may have phrased it poorly, were you worried about blowing the automatic transmission? My mechanic (Ari at Rotary Perfor,acne) is very hesitant about a 4AT turbo build. He thinks I will go through transmissions too quickly. I can't seem to find good numbers on the power limit of the 4at. Mazda lowered the redline, but that's all I have found so far.
Your build is definitely something I am keeping in mind. I do a lot of stop and go freeway driving, and I don't think I want to deal with a clutch, so I'm stuck in slushbox land.
Thanks for the advice
I think Phil's 8 is using the stock transmission and he put down 260 (possibly a little more) whp with his pettit super charger.
Last edited by ShellDude; 04-14-2015 at 12:45 AM. Reason: I think phil only hit 260 but was aiming for 300
04-15-2015, 08:19 PM
#74
I found a kit (still being produced) that goes over 300 WHP. I dont want to say who how and why, this is pure speculation right now. As far as I can tell, no one has tried this in a 4AT before. The guy who builds them says he hasnt tried it in an auto, but isnt opposed.