So if I am understanding all this correctly the Int-X is not reading density/air temps accurately because of the software used?

Bare with me cause you all keep using big words like granularity...I had to go to dictionary.com to figure that one out!

Anyways, so the Int-x is recieving density inputs in too large of chunks? Does it not check the sensor often enough or is it some other limitation?

 

No, It cannot do fine adjustments to the fuel map based on the temperature readings due to the limitations in the software. Rather than allowing to set the precise amounts of fuel to a specific point of temperature and RPM it
can only increase or decrease the injector open time by a certain % regardless of what is the operational state the engine is in.
Basically raises or lowers your entire fuel curve.

 

Your kidding me!

So then couldn't you increase/decrease the injector open time based on density/temp and rpm? It makes no sense to increase your entire fuel curve if only a specific adjustment is needed during a certain RPM.

Based off that I can see why you all would want to rework the software. Are there any other computers out there that will allow for fine tuning the fuel curve using density and rpm's? I am sure I am asking whats been asked a million times...sorry!


(Checks Brain storage capacity) Yeap still have some space! LOL!

 

Well, it actually does exactly that.
Fuel curve was mentioned figuratively speaking.
It does not change the entire map. it runs according to the map and based on the temp reading and what the set temp correction is; it adjusts it at runtime.

You can define the base fuel map to as fine a level as you need (In Matrix mode) Based on rpm and load, and it will permanently stay that way. It is the other variables that do not allow for very fine adjustments. (Air temp, Coolant Temp)

 

Good morning, see you guys have been busy. Anyone hooked up a different air temp sensor to the Emanage system yet?

 

Im going to go try and see what happens. I also need to figure out a good resister. Any ideas? I dissasembled half my electrical parts stash with no luck, looking at the sterio scratching my head.

 

Moon, my only suggestion is: Radioshack. Other than that I have no idea...

 

Why would you hook up a different air temp sensor to the EMU?
We were talking about the Int-X.
The EMU doesn't need the air temp signal.

 

OK, I think I got confused...LOL! This is not hard to do.

For some reason it sounds like a contradiction. Can you expand on the inability to finely adjust air temp and coolant?

 

here is a shot of MM's fuel Map as he discovered the Matrix Mode.

https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...6&postcount=84

See how it gives you a 3D map allowing to hit the fuel configuration from all the angles.

What it does is it allows you to make changes to eac of the specified RPM ranges and Load ranges.

For 2PSI at 5K rpm open injectors for 7.81 ms...
This is the map based on which the system uses to power on and off the injectors

Well air temp and coolant temp is not a part of the equation here and they are represented by two totally independent tables. They are two additional maps which allow you to adjust the duration of the injector pulse by a specified % based on the registered temperature at the time of the pulse.

so pretty much if you are running at 5K rpm @ 2PSI or at 8K rpm @ 10PSI, and your engine temperature charge gets hot, your AFR will start getting too Fat.
You need to take off a certain amount of time from the injector pulse.

I would like to have the ability to adjust fuel By a specific Inj open Duration, for that specific RPM and that specific Temp and not by just a ballpark of 10% overall or whatever.

making the map look something like this:
-------- 105F .....100F......95F........90F.......85F........80F ........
1K....|______|______|______|______|______|______|
1.5K.|______|______|______|______|______|______|
2K....|______|______|______|______|______|______|
2.5K.|______|______|______|______|______|______|
3K....|______|______|______|______|______|______|
3.5K.|______|______|______|______|______|______|
4K....|______|______|______|______|______|______|
4.5K.|______|______|______|______|______|______|
..........
.........

Am I making sence here?

 

As you can see in this pic, the way the Int-X compensates for changes in intake temperature is by looking up a value on this screen, modifying the pulse width with the value indicated.

Not only does the Int-X not read the sensor correctly (it under-reports the actual temp - It is reading 5°C in this pic, but the actual air temp was 15°C), but the granularity (the "distance" between points on the graph) is too small (not enough choices) to make effective tuning decisions.
You should be able to adjust the correlation between temperature and pulse width in a linear fashion a degree at a time.

The same holds true for the water temp.



There is an intese relationship between operating temperature, intake temperature and injector pulse width, especially when the pulse width is small (and the airflow is equally small), which is the case at idle and coast down.

The water temp adjustment is particularly problematic because the normal operating range for the motor falls somewhere between the 82° and 99° cells!
At 82°C, the motor is just barely warmed up and it is possible for the motor to actually stay that cool on a cool day, but as soon as you start driving, it might peak up to 92°C or somewhere else.
The Int-X will interpolate the values between these cells, but that is not accurate enough for a stoich idle.

 

Or better yet
I just want to give it a target AFR for the range based on Boost and RPM and Engine Operational Mode (WOT, Cruise, Decell) and Save it and forget about it

 

MazdaManiac - I have studied the Emanage Ultimate origional turbo map and the 02/04/07 map from your website a lot. Based on that research and the information in that thread I have a couple questions about some things.

By the "6 discrete injection channels" do you mean the Parameter Setting -> I/J tab -> CH-1 thru CH-6? Do you also mean CH-A & CH-B when you say "sub-injection channels"? If so, why do you have CH-5 & CH-6 set to the type of "Sub I/J" and CH-A & CH-B set to NVCS?


This is odd because the origional GReddy map has them CH-1 -> FL, CH-2 -> RL, CH-3 -> FT, CH-4 -> RT ???

How does sending a 22:1 A/F signal convince the PCM that nothing unusual is going on? Why doesn't the PCM think it is running way lean and try to add fuel?

When you say "temp sensor input" are you talking about the Parameter Setting -> CH Setting -> Water Temp & Intake Temp?

 

Well, that is what I was alluding to when I said many of the channels on the EMU can serve different functions.
I use the NVCS to control the WBO2S dongle. The channels I wanted for that are at the bottom of the I/J chart, so I set the 5/6 channels as sub-injector outs since I sever the output of the P2s from the PCM and only need 1,2,3 &4 for the P1 and secondaries.


Agreed. I cannot explain why GReddy says one thing and then does another.


For whatever reason, seeing a way-lean condition while in high load doesn't confise the PCM and it then doesn't use that data for computing LTFT. I don't know why, it was just a choice on Mazda's part when engineering the PCM.


Yes, but there are corresponding jumper settings inside the unit as well. When that is set up as indicated in the manual, it doesn't work. The temp reported stays stuck at maximum.

 

Im more interested in my charge temp and feel its more important then your intake temp.

 

I have the temp sensor online but the values are off 20 degrees. Talked to Benny and I have to change jumper #14. Im trying to get as many accurate readings as possible. Another reason charge temp is very important with my aplication is if you shut the car off for a short period of time you have heat soaked the I/C system under the hood wich raises your temps, it takes a minute or 2 to gain maximum I/C efficiancy to were its a stable temp. If you can adjust for that you run less chance of problems and if its a really hot day you can also compensate.

 

Bennys also sending me a coolent dongle to do the open loop thing. Making good proggress.

 

good to hear Moon that you are moving along.

 

Thanks MazdaManiac! I think I finally understand everything enough to make the necessay wiring and jumper changes.

 

Don't use the temp dongle. You want the O2 dongle.

 

Wich one is this.

 

Whats to be expected with changing the jumper? MM you figured out how to run in open loop all of the time rite? Its wierd how I didnt have problems with the fuel trim with the blue Emanage

 

I'm only in open loop when the PCM wants open loop.
The O2 sensor dongle takes care of the rest, as I explained above.

Changing the #14 jumper is to configure the coolant temp input to "pull-up", which will screw up your temp readings and cause the PCM to think the engine is cold all the time.
I almost over-heated my motor the first time I tried that setting.

That is the O2 dongle you are holding there. You don't need the coolant dongle.

 

This is making more sense now. So based on the graph shown at 90 deg Cell its at 0% injecttor pulse duration.

I can see how inaccurate this graph is. Especially when each point that you can adjust for is several deg's away from each other.

With that said if we were to modify the software to include more points (adjustability by degree) we would also need to alter the GUI of the interface. I think this can be done.

 

The #14 is for air temp, Benny said it will correct for a different sensor. Were building a different coolent temp sensor for the fans, them not comming on is why you overheated, or started to. Cams working on that as we speak.