OD's engine build
04-13-2011, 08:52 AM
#79
Lol--"skip of death" is when a rotor face blows an apex seal and the engine continues to run but sometimes only running off one rotor. So it has a dead skip that doesnt change at idle or at any rpm under no circumstances. So the engine has blown and the wife is going to kill me.
From what Cam has told me the rx7 side seals do not have a problem any worse than the rx8's in this engine.
Matter of fact if you have a header--Cam has told us not to wrap it--his thought being that is helps to retain too much heat around the exhaust port (while on track) and its not good for the header.
Since I will be moving more air than I did before, i am now considering in getting a header.
I like the one that Team made, but I dont have the skills or equipment to do that here. So I probably will get the racing beat one and use double gaskets.
I also have the Mazsport midpipe but i am thinking of getting the racing beat one because of the gasket set up and I really need the smaller silencer due to my 09 trans swap. The 09 trans gets a lot closer to the silencer than the 04 trans does and I dont like that. It hasnt caused any problem for the past year, but I still dont like it.
From what Cam has told me the rx7 side seals do not have a problem any worse than the rx8's in this engine.
Matter of fact if you have a header--Cam has told us not to wrap it--his thought being that is helps to retain too much heat around the exhaust port (while on track) and its not good for the header.
Since I will be moving more air than I did before, i am now considering in getting a header.
I like the one that Team made, but I dont have the skills or equipment to do that here. So I probably will get the racing beat one and use double gaskets.
I also have the Mazsport midpipe but i am thinking of getting the racing beat one because of the gasket set up and I really need the smaller silencer due to my 09 trans swap. The 09 trans gets a lot closer to the silencer than the 04 trans does and I dont like that. It hasnt caused any problem for the past year, but I still dont like it.
04-13-2011, 09:09 AM
#82
Cam has told us not to wrap it--his thought being that is helps to retain too much heat around the exhaust port (while on track) and its not good for the header.
Since I will be moving more air than I did before, i am now considering in getting a header.
I like the one that Team made, but I dont have the skills or equipment to do that here. So I probably will get the racing beat one and use double gaskets.
Since I will be moving more air than I did before, i am now considering in getting a header.
I like the one that Team made, but I dont have the skills or equipment to do that here. So I probably will get the racing beat one and use double gaskets.
04-13-2011, 10:18 AM
#83
I also have the Mazsport midpipe but i am thinking of getting the racing beat one because of the gasket set up and I really need the smaller silencer due to my 09 trans swap.
Glad to hear things are coming along well on your build! I understand not wrapping the header but what about a thermal coating on the inside of the pipes?
04-13-2011, 12:15 PM
#84
Ok all--its an old therory.
The best exhaust pipe from the exhaust port will be a straight one. Of course we cant do that. But, old racers found that just extending that straight addition by just 1/4 inch can make a difference. They started putting 2 gaskets on to extend the straight part of the pipe immediatly after the exhaust port. That helps flow and exhaust port temps. Believe it or not.
Its not something that is going to give you a lot more hp etc --it may give 1-2 up top?. But it can help a little with exhaust port temps. Its an easy thing to do and it will not hurt anything.
Cam has said he doesnt like to retain heat around the exhaust port--no no exhaust coatings or wraps is what he advises. he knows a lot more than i ever will--so I try to listen.
The clearnace between midpipe silencer and the 09 trans is something you need to consider. The mazsport one almosts touches my trans--i have heat shielded it with the cat converter shield stuff that Defi sells and I havent had a problem, but like I said--dont really like badaiding stuff. I had the pipe before i got the trans
The best exhaust pipe from the exhaust port will be a straight one. Of course we cant do that. But, old racers found that just extending that straight addition by just 1/4 inch can make a difference. They started putting 2 gaskets on to extend the straight part of the pipe immediatly after the exhaust port. That helps flow and exhaust port temps. Believe it or not.
Its not something that is going to give you a lot more hp etc --it may give 1-2 up top?. But it can help a little with exhaust port temps. Its an easy thing to do and it will not hurt anything.
Cam has said he doesnt like to retain heat around the exhaust port--no no exhaust coatings or wraps is what he advises. he knows a lot more than i ever will--so I try to listen.
The clearnace between midpipe silencer and the 09 trans is something you need to consider. The mazsport one almosts touches my trans--i have heat shielded it with the cat converter shield stuff that Defi sells and I havent had a problem, but like I said--dont really like badaiding stuff. I had the pipe before i got the trans
04-13-2011, 03:22 PM
#85
hmm you learn something new every day! I always thought the idea behind coating the Inside rather then the out side of the manifold was to shed heat away from manifolds and ports and not retain it.
I would place trust in my engine builder as well, I'm sure Cam has way more experience then most of the yahoos on here. I would love to hear his thoughts on this topic.
I would place trust in my engine builder as well, I'm sure Cam has way more experience then most of the yahoos on here. I would love to hear his thoughts on this topic.
04-13-2011, 04:25 PM
#86
I blasted the coating off my manifold and instead draped a three-layer header blanket across the top and down the side such that it blocks exhaust heat from going up to the intake/engine bay area but still allows air to flow around and past the manifold from front to rear
Last edited by TeamRX8; 04-13-2011 at 04:28 PM.
04-13-2011, 05:20 PM
#87
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
I blasted the coating off my manifold and instead draped a three-layer header blanket across the top and down the side such that it blocks exhaust heat from going up to the intake/engine bay area but still allows air to flow around and past the manifold from front to rear
Do you have pictures of this setup?
04-14-2011, 08:07 AM
#90
Bingo---thats the thing to do. I also think Team has said earier somewhere and I did also --somewhere---the addition of a small "spolier" on the back undertray/crossmember area will help to evacuate engine bay heat by forming a low pressure area directly behind it.
I have done mine in kind of a trick way.
I run a secondary radiator set up and I have ended up V mounting it to the bottom of the a/c condensor and undertray. To help secure this radiator i ran a rather thick (1/2 inch) aluminum bar along the underside of the undertray. This serves as a good anchor for the radiator and also as the undertray spoiler. Its not the best undertray spoiler set up, but it does help a little.
I too will have the header heat shield set up.
I have done mine in kind of a trick way.
I run a secondary radiator set up and I have ended up V mounting it to the bottom of the a/c condensor and undertray. To help secure this radiator i ran a rather thick (1/2 inch) aluminum bar along the underside of the undertray. This serves as a good anchor for the radiator and also as the undertray spoiler. Its not the best undertray spoiler set up, but it does help a little.
I too will have the header heat shield set up.
04-28-2011, 05:38 PM
#92
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
Bingo---thats the thing to do. I also think Team has said earier somewhere and I did also --somewhere---the addition of a small "spolier" on the back undertray/crossmember area will help to evacuate engine bay heat by forming a low pressure area directly behind it.
I have done mine in kind of a trick way.
I run a secondary radiator set up and I have ended up V mounting it to the bottom of the a/c condensor and undertray. To help secure this radiator i ran a rather thick (1/2 inch) aluminum bar along the underside of the undertray. This serves as a good anchor for the radiator and also as the undertray spoiler. Its not the best undertray spoiler set up, but it does help a little.
I too will have the header heat shield set up.
I have done mine in kind of a trick way.
I run a secondary radiator set up and I have ended up V mounting it to the bottom of the a/c condensor and undertray. To help secure this radiator i ran a rather thick (1/2 inch) aluminum bar along the underside of the undertray. This serves as a good anchor for the radiator and also as the undertray spoiler. Its not the best undertray spoiler set up, but it does help a little.
I too will have the header heat shield set up.
I need a visual
04-28-2011, 08:56 PM
#94
Ok update---- received my engine yesterday.
Cam talked me out of the low compression build.
Instead I have the laser cut rx8 rotors with the tall rx7 apex seals, street ported, addition cooling work to the sparkplug/exhaust area ( i now have a capped hole between the leading/trailing plugs hehe) oil channel work, upgraded oil pump, balanced and blueprinted, modified clearances and the rotor housings are painted silver.
I have it in the car now. But--still have a lot of work to do
trans/ppf/exhaust etc etc and I have to work tomorrow and have the Mitty Saturday.
Stay tuned--more to come.
OD
Cam talked me out of the low compression build.
Instead I have the laser cut rx8 rotors with the tall rx7 apex seals, street ported, addition cooling work to the sparkplug/exhaust area ( i now have a capped hole between the leading/trailing plugs hehe) oil channel work, upgraded oil pump, balanced and blueprinted, modified clearances and the rotor housings are painted silver.
I have it in the car now. But--still have a lot of work to do
trans/ppf/exhaust etc etc and I have to work tomorrow and have the Mitty Saturday.
Stay tuned--more to come.
OD
04-29-2011, 11:29 AM
#95
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
Ok update---- received my engine yesterday.
Cam talked me out of the low compression build.
Instead I have the laser cut rx8 rotors with the tall rx7 apex seals, street ported, addition cooling work to the sparkplug/exhaust area ( i now have a capped hole between the leading/trailing plugs hehe) oil channel work, upgraded oil pump, balanced and blueprinted, modified clearances and the rotor housings are painted silver.
I have it in the car now. But--still have a lot of work to do
trans/ppf/exhaust etc etc and I have to work tomorrow and have the Mitty Saturday.
Stay tuned--more to come.
OD
Cam talked me out of the low compression build.
Instead I have the laser cut rx8 rotors with the tall rx7 apex seals, street ported, addition cooling work to the sparkplug/exhaust area ( i now have a capped hole between the leading/trailing plugs hehe) oil channel work, upgraded oil pump, balanced and blueprinted, modified clearances and the rotor housings are painted silver.
I have it in the car now. But--still have a lot of work to do
trans/ppf/exhaust etc etc and I have to work tomorrow and have the Mitty Saturday.
Stay tuned--more to come.
OD
Awesome. I bet you are excited.
04-30-2011, 07:49 AM
#96
Excitement comes after it is in and running.
DOnt know why it has taken me so long to realize that to install a trans (especially the bigger and heavier 09) is not a simple task. I am not that lucky. I had to make some long guide studs to help with the install and then it is step by step--little here--little there--until finally it bolts up.
Finish install today and hopefully drive it to the Mitty tomorrow?
OD
DOnt know why it has taken me so long to realize that to install a trans (especially the bigger and heavier 09) is not a simple task. I am not that lucky. I had to make some long guide studs to help with the install and then it is step by step--little here--little there--until finally it bolts up.
Finish install today and hopefully drive it to the Mitty tomorrow?
OD
05-03-2011, 08:21 AM
#98
I also will have a bunch of pics to post after all is completed.
On the exhaust--all I have done is placed a catylitic type heat shield over the oem header and then placed another oem aluminum ( i have the aluminum shield, additional shield, then another aluminum shield) shield like a sandwich, on mine. It works very well. The temp using a laser is never over what the engine temp is. Usually around 180-200 measured on the outer most aluminum shield.
Mine is NOT wrap around. The underside of the oem header is open like it usually is. That heat has to go somewhere.
On the exhaust--all I have done is placed a catylitic type heat shield over the oem header and then placed another oem aluminum ( i have the aluminum shield, additional shield, then another aluminum shield) shield like a sandwich, on mine. It works very well. The temp using a laser is never over what the engine temp is. Usually around 180-200 measured on the outer most aluminum shield.
Mine is NOT wrap around. The underside of the oem header is open like it usually is. That heat has to go somewhere.
05-03-2011, 09:47 AM
#99
I love following these types of threads, you get very useful information you never expected to come across. Can't wait to hear how your new engine runs olddragger. I was just down at pettit's this last week picking up some protek and a mid pipe from a guy. I have my eye on one of their superchargers but I told (I think it was cam) I wanted them to rebuild my engine first. He said it was generally a good idea but that was before he knew I had an 04 with only 43k on it. How do you like their supercharger? Not to thread jack or anything but does it pick up quick on the low rpms? And how about streetability? You said earlier you wanted something to abuse on the track, but still be a good street car.
Also what are the advantages of going with the rx7 apex seals rather than the rx8's? This is my first rotary, while I've done alot of reading on the Renesis, the older rotaries I know very little about. Was the rx7's seals better at handling boost? I'm sure when it comes to that time Cam with go over everything with me when I get mine rebuilt but I'm trying to learn as much as I can in the meantime. I plan on doing a rebuild before I ever get to 100k miles.
Last question lol, how hard was it taking out the rotary engine? I've rebuilt a Jaguar inline 6 but i didn't have to disconect it from the tranny and pull the whole thing out. I plan on just driving my engine down to pettit, then pick it up. I can't imagine that its all that heavy, at least compared to a 4.0 six. But thats what engine lifts are for right? But how long did it take you to take it out? Assuming one has all the proper tools.
Hope the new engine works out for you this time so you don't keep going through them lol.
Also what are the advantages of going with the rx7 apex seals rather than the rx8's? This is my first rotary, while I've done alot of reading on the Renesis, the older rotaries I know very little about. Was the rx7's seals better at handling boost? I'm sure when it comes to that time Cam with go over everything with me when I get mine rebuilt but I'm trying to learn as much as I can in the meantime. I plan on doing a rebuild before I ever get to 100k miles.
Last question lol, how hard was it taking out the rotary engine? I've rebuilt a Jaguar inline 6 but i didn't have to disconect it from the tranny and pull the whole thing out. I plan on just driving my engine down to pettit, then pick it up. I can't imagine that its all that heavy, at least compared to a 4.0 six. But thats what engine lifts are for right? But how long did it take you to take it out? Assuming one has all the proper tools.
Hope the new engine works out for you this time so you don't keep going through them lol.
05-03-2011, 10:38 AM
#100
Welcome to the rotary madness! Once bitten its hard to let go.
1st the kit--i cant imagine having this car without it. It acutually makes the car drive better on the street as you now have power to pass in any gear you want and your takeoff from a standstill is better. It is very smooth and has oem linear response
The blower can build full boost by 2.5K rpm. I have lowered my redline to 7.5 as there is no need to go above that--even though there is a little more power a little further up. It changes the car so much that I really cant describe it.
The taller apex seals are the ones that Mazda used for their boosted rotary engine in the rx7. They give a more solid base to the top part of the seal. Imagine a post in the dirt that is 1 foot deep versus one that is 2 feet deep, for example?
With this type of build Cam does a lot of other things to increase cooling in some key areas of the engine, street ports it, balances and blueprints the engine to much better specs than oem, oil passage work etc.
My blown engines are an adventure! We know exactly what happened to all but one and they had nothing to do with the blower. I have lost gas lines, vaccum lines, used the wrong maf pipe ( at the beginning when we all were just starting to have some understanding about tuning this thing) and had bad gas. All of them but one were on the track in a very high load area through multiple gears. The bad gas one was on the street and I wasnt even in boost then.
The condition of the gas around here is causing me to retard my timing a bit more so I will have a little more safety room.
Working on this car is really simple. Pulling an engine from the top (especially after installing this kit) is simple back yard work. I leave the trans in. I dont have a lift but I have learned to build "cribbing" and put the car on it---not jack stands. I dont trust stands anymore and the cribbing allows much more room under the car. If you pulled a Jag engine (those are monsters!) you can do this without a problem. The trans comes out easy but the pilot bearing is something you need to watch during the reinstall. I learned to use guide pins and long mounting bolts and took it slow and it went right in.
If i can do it --just about anyone can
I would be more than glad to help you in anyway I can.
Also one thing to keep in mind. Pettit racing has been around for a good while and Cam backs this kit without question. Thats important when making the decision to modify your engine with an FI kit. He will be there next year and the year after etc.
Hope you step aboard--you will not regret it.
1st the kit--i cant imagine having this car without it. It acutually makes the car drive better on the street as you now have power to pass in any gear you want and your takeoff from a standstill is better. It is very smooth and has oem linear response
The blower can build full boost by 2.5K rpm. I have lowered my redline to 7.5 as there is no need to go above that--even though there is a little more power a little further up. It changes the car so much that I really cant describe it.
The taller apex seals are the ones that Mazda used for their boosted rotary engine in the rx7. They give a more solid base to the top part of the seal. Imagine a post in the dirt that is 1 foot deep versus one that is 2 feet deep, for example?
With this type of build Cam does a lot of other things to increase cooling in some key areas of the engine, street ports it, balances and blueprints the engine to much better specs than oem, oil passage work etc.
My blown engines are an adventure! We know exactly what happened to all but one and they had nothing to do with the blower. I have lost gas lines, vaccum lines, used the wrong maf pipe ( at the beginning when we all were just starting to have some understanding about tuning this thing) and had bad gas. All of them but one were on the track in a very high load area through multiple gears. The bad gas one was on the street and I wasnt even in boost then.
The condition of the gas around here is causing me to retard my timing a bit more so I will have a little more safety room.
Working on this car is really simple. Pulling an engine from the top (especially after installing this kit) is simple back yard work. I leave the trans in. I dont have a lift but I have learned to build "cribbing" and put the car on it---not jack stands. I dont trust stands anymore and the cribbing allows much more room under the car. If you pulled a Jag engine (those are monsters!) you can do this without a problem. The trans comes out easy but the pilot bearing is something you need to watch during the reinstall. I learned to use guide pins and long mounting bolts and took it slow and it went right in.
If i can do it --just about anyone can
I would be more than glad to help you in anyway I can.
Also one thing to keep in mind. Pettit racing has been around for a good while and Cam backs this kit without question. Thats important when making the decision to modify your engine with an FI kit. He will be there next year and the year after etc.
Hope you step aboard--you will not regret it.