Nitrous Dyno
11-28-2007, 12:36 PM
#51
No means yes
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^= you have a gripe with Mazda for fine-tuning the engine? Yes the V8s have more head room. Would you rather the 8 come with 150HP instead of 230? -_-
Turbos have passed the 400whp mark. With a good system and proper tuning you could run a 200 shot.
Turbos have passed the 400whp mark. With a good system and proper tuning you could run a 200 shot.
11-28-2007, 12:50 PM
#52
11-28-2007, 12:50 PM
#53
Destroying Threads
=..= thats not what I'm saying...........but thanks for the headsup about that though, I complete forgot mazda did a very good job with extracting as much power as possible from our engine
11-28-2007, 01:06 PM
#54
No means yes
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Yes you could run ANYTHING! But within the octane allowances of a street car, ignition system limitations, and the currently available engine management, 400WHP is as far is people have gotten so far. In the future, who knows?
Speaking of which... The reason that the ignition system is a limitation for turbo applications is spark blowout (more air = higher voltage needed to jump the gap). However, with nitrous you aren't pushing in a higher volume of air, you're modifying the chemistry of the gas, so theoretically you shouldn't encounter this issue.
At that point your performance ceiling would likely be somewhere around the point where the concentration of O2 becomes too high... Kane mentioned this being somewhere around 30%.
Speaking of which... The reason that the ignition system is a limitation for turbo applications is spark blowout (more air = higher voltage needed to jump the gap). However, with nitrous you aren't pushing in a higher volume of air, you're modifying the chemistry of the gas, so theoretically you shouldn't encounter this issue.
At that point your performance ceiling would likely be somewhere around the point where the concentration of O2 becomes too high... Kane mentioned this being somewhere around 30%.
11-28-2007, 01:23 PM
#57
No means yes
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^= right. I meant that you're compressing a larger volume of air into the same space. Density would have been the correct term.
The issue with the 37% number is just what you said - "for storage purposes". Since we are storing the oxygen in the form of N2O we're safe on that front. The problem is what happens once combustion begins and N20 starts to break down and free up O2... What happens if the concentration goes above 37% at that point? Detonation? A big bang? Is 37% the magic number or is it significantly lower because of all the other stuff going on inside the combustion chamber? I would love for someone more qualified that I am to chime in
Assuming 37% concentration is indeed the limit, then we can expect gains via nitrous only to be limited to about 75% of original power. Kind of weak?
The issue with the 37% number is just what you said - "for storage purposes". Since we are storing the oxygen in the form of N2O we're safe on that front. The problem is what happens once combustion begins and N20 starts to break down and free up O2... What happens if the concentration goes above 37% at that point? Detonation? A big bang? Is 37% the magic number or is it significantly lower because of all the other stuff going on inside the combustion chamber? I would love for someone more qualified that I am to chime in
Assuming 37% concentration is indeed the limit, then we can expect gains via nitrous only to be limited to about 75% of original power. Kind of weak?
11-28-2007, 01:28 PM
#58
Destroying Threads
well its a cheap mod man, 75% increase assuming that a stock rx8 (with all bolt on) makes 200rwhp (assuming) I guess we can assume that we can grab about 150whp more with nitrous alone (this is ofcourse tuned)..........
I do not see anything weak about that.......350whp nitrous injected isn't bad at all
I do not see anything weak about that.......350whp nitrous injected isn't bad at all
11-28-2007, 01:36 PM
#59
No means yes
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At those power levels it will not be cheap, per se. Cheaper than a turbo, yes, but you still need engine management and tuning (say, another 2k?). You also have to refill the bottle on a regular basis (3 times more often than you do now with a 50 shot)... I didn't do the math, but depending on your driving style it may be the worst proposition financially...
I am not bashing nitrous BTW. I think it's a great mod for the money, but not sure how easy it is to live with over the long term.
I am not bashing nitrous BTW. I think it's a great mod for the money, but not sure how easy it is to live with over the long term.
11-28-2007, 01:38 PM
#60
In theory - you could run any amount of PPO2 - but 37% is the safe limit because of risk on uncontrolled explosive fire from any uncontrolled heat or spark.
So a small metal shaving from a thread gets heated in the O2 stream due to friction of the gas passing over it - and BOOM.
So a small metal shaving from a thread gets heated in the O2 stream due to friction of the gas passing over it - and BOOM.
11-28-2007, 01:45 PM
#61
Destroying Threads
CS: I understand what you are saying, which is why most people do not use nitrous as their primary only mean of boosting.......but it is not bad either...........as u mentioned, assuming that you do run a 150 shot nitrous on your rx8, you will need at least 2 10lb bottles, or you can use 1 20lb bottle, but they are really heavy..........
that being said, for easy calculation, right now a 10lb bottle lasts me 2 weeks (8-10 second spray........about 15-20 times)
so running a 150 shot (I run 60) would cost roughly 35+35+35$ = 105$ per two weeks for 150whp increase, that +say 1.4k INT-X+1k for nitrous setup+600 say for tuning = 3k in total for your entire setup
that +105$ each 2 weeks to boost up........that will take 20 weeks to equal in price to the esmeril racing turbo or about 30 weeks to be equal to the price of the pettit supercharger......which makes 300whp
that being said, for easy calculation, right now a 10lb bottle lasts me 2 weeks (8-10 second spray........about 15-20 times)
so running a 150 shot (I run 60) would cost roughly 35+35+35$ = 105$ per two weeks for 150whp increase, that +say 1.4k INT-X+1k for nitrous setup+600 say for tuning = 3k in total for your entire setup
that +105$ each 2 weeks to boost up........that will take 20 weeks to equal in price to the esmeril racing turbo or about 30 weeks to be equal to the price of the pettit supercharger......which makes 300whp
11-28-2007, 01:56 PM
#62
No means yes
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Do you plan to keep your setup for more than 6 months? 
If you're a heavy user it's not cost effective. For the occasional little run it's great though.
20lbs is not THAT heavy, you girl. Two 10lbs bottles will give you plumbing headaches and multiply the cost of remote openers and bottle heaters by 2.
If you're a heavy user it's not cost effective. For the occasional little run it's great though.20lbs is not THAT heavy, you girl. Two 10lbs bottles will give you plumbing headaches and multiply the cost of remote openers and bottle heaters by 2.
11-28-2007, 01:57 PM
#63
No means yes
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In theory - you could run any amount of PPO2 - but 37% is the safe limit because of risk on uncontrolled explosive fire from any uncontrolled heat or spark.
So a small metal shaving from a thread gets heated in the O2 stream due to friction of the gas passing over it - and BOOM.
So a small metal shaving from a thread gets heated in the O2 stream due to friction of the gas passing over it - and BOOM.
11-28-2007, 02:07 PM
#65
Destroying Threads
Do you plan to keep your setup for more than 6 months? If you're a heavy user it's not cost effective. For the occasional little run it's great though.
20lbs is not THAT heavy, you girl. Two 10lbs bottles will give you plumbing headaches and multiply the cost of remote openers and bottle heaters by 2.
If you're a heavy user it's not cost effective. For the occasional little run it's great though.20lbs is not THAT heavy, you girl. Two 10lbs bottles will give you plumbing headaches and multiply the cost of remote openers and bottle heaters by 2.
EDIT: sorry I was watching idiocracy
Last edited by tajabaho1; 11-28-2007 at 02:36 PM.
11-28-2007, 02:16 PM
#68
No means yes
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taj, you need to stop huffin that nitrous.. Please re-read your last post.
Ray, I'm not very familiar with the Pro Mod cars... Their budgets are significantly higher than ours, but we can definitely take away from their experience... Are you aware of any special measures they take to cope with the high concentration of O2?
Ray, I'm not very familiar with the Pro Mod cars... Their budgets are significantly higher than ours, but we can definitely take away from their experience... Are you aware of any special measures they take to cope with the high concentration of O2?
11-28-2007, 02:18 PM
#69
The Professor
This is true. Theoretically you could run fuel combusion under a full nitrous atmosphere. You would have to change fuels to something bound with its own oxidizer to get it going, nitromethane probably.
11-28-2007, 02:19 PM
#70
The Professor
11-28-2007, 02:22 PM
#72
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now correct me if i am wrong ... but *in theory* its being said that a 150 shot could be ran on this car with the right amount of tuning. . . but would the fuel pump be able to keep up with the added amount of fuel needed also ?
11-28-2007, 02:37 PM
#74
Destroying Threads
beside...........1000hp nitrous systems for rx8? u gotta be jokin
11-28-2007, 02:39 PM
#75
Destroying Threads
that truly depends on how much fuel the solenoid would be flowing for the 150shot jetting size.......
and I don't have a clue about this one