Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Agreed , that's a large part of it (but not the whole story ).

BTW - you infer that I have the issue ............................ I don't

Bryan@BNR

How are you finding this wheel to flow 50 lb/min? I understand that the RENESIS is a bit more restrictive, but Chris from PR made over 400 RWHP with a 60mm turbo. At 18 psi with a full 60-1 T4 turbo on the RENESIS better break 400. The Greddy won't flow 400 RWHP b/c of the turbine housing size, and the short manifold design. But I bet you it can make 360 RWHP when I get the boost up to 14 psi on the 60-1. So an upgraded actuator will come standard now.

It was my fault for the misunderstanding of Air Mass. Sometimes everyone needs their wake up call. I just totally took the terminology Air mass the wrong way. I knew the air has its efficiencies/inefficiencies but I am not all into reading compressor maps and doing studies on air flow and knowing the terminologies. So forgive me for for my ignorance. You are very knowlegeable on compressor maps and readings. I always think in a different way than most on some of this stuff. All of it is personal experience and no deep study on the flow charts. Try something out that works, try to find something thats better. You definately tought me a much needed lesson Jeff, thanks!

I do not base my builds souly on compressor maps. I have had almost every turbo on my RX7's. If I like a particular powerband, I make that happen as a product offered. If I don't like a set up or the way it responds and drives I will not push the product. Right now I am experimenting with a GT61 (35R compressor) hybrid. I do not like it one bit compared to the 60-1. The T61 just doesn't get going until 4-4500 RPM. Very lazy in first gear. It may outpower the 60-1 by 40ish RWHP up top, but below the curve the 60-1 will walk all over it. I don't think peak RWHP is worth losing a big portion of your powerband. We can discuss Air mass and air volume, but to me it all comes down to how it works in the car...

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Which is what started this discussion in the first place . Poor results . I'm 90% sure it is just a WG actuator issue but until someone actually resolves that we can't be sure .
In the meantime , when anyone buys this upgrade and makes less than 290whp they just wasted their money IMO

Bryan@BNR

What actuator spring tension are you running on your hybrid? You are running an H3 compressor wheel which has about the same charactoristics as the 60-1.

I agree with you on the 290 WHP. The actuator needs to be replaced and the low boost issue needs to be resolved. Also I think the Greddy intercooler is a restriction, but I don't know the efficiencies of that piece. I will have some actuator brackets made and I will send all my customers upgraded actuators. Just got to get some feedback on the new actuators...

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Dimensions on mine match a To4e 57trim exactly so pretty sure that is what it is .Not as good as the 60-1(in theory) but I'm happy with it.
I just jam the wg closed by adjusting the arm according to whatever mass flow/whp i want to make . Works well for me but does get me into arguments with MM all the time LOL .

FWIW - i tried a higher flow IC and did get more flow (at the same WG setting)but was not as dramatic as I expected.

BDC

I did about 424 at around 17psi w/ about 315 or so ft/lbs of torque back in 2000 and then on New Years Eve 2006 did 439 and change at 360ft/lbs of torque at 23-24psi. The compressor does start to run out of useful "steam" about 17-18psi or so (with diminishing gains thereafter) but is still a terrific street turbo for a 2-rotor setup. It won't crack 500 but it will make 400. It's small enough to have some decent spool on a full T4 platform but large enough to make really good numbers on a street car. It'll do the 300-375hp range all day long without breaking a sweat and doing it at under a bar of boost so I agree with Bryan that it'd be an ideal compressor for a turbocharged 13B (older or Renesis) setup. It might be a "dinosaur" (haha!) but it's good and is a great workhorse turbo.

Bryan@BNR

crunching numbers between BDCs 424 RWHP dyno sheet 65 peak lb/min, and the 50 lb/min calculated for the renesis at sub 18psi. There is 15 lb-min/110 BHP flow difference at the same boost level. Is the renesis that restrictive, or is it getting into territory that isnt commonly explored so we dont know exactly what it will do?

swoope

iTrader: (5)

sorry,

on a silly side not to this thread from hell..

jeff, water meth injection is a waste? perspective ..

wondering.. and to all. great info, and banter.


beers

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Waste? Not really (on an FI car).
It doesn't make power, though.

In fact, on all the FI cars I've tuned with W/M, there is a slight loss of power when the spray comes on. (Unless you run really high alky concentrations where it is a wash.)
You can run more timing to make it up, but then you are kinda defeating the purpose.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

point missed.

did not mention making power, just imply was not a waste, more so on the track!

very tongue in cheek. and really should have not been in this thread.

beers

Benjamz

Good thread, good info.
So glad that there are tunners like Jeff out there and also people like Bryan who have tried crap loads of combinations to find out what works best for what.
I will stick to the hardware side of things..lol.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Totally.

Huh?

I do run W/M on my car at the track.
It is a great detonation suppressant.
Too bad it doesn't lower engine temps! I've thought about taking the nozzle out and pointing it at the rad instead!

bse50

We take advantage of our Xenon washers. Remove them and redirect them to the rad

RX8YA

iTrader: (8)

^ thats a good one........I saw that bumper for the first time when the fellow who purchased my turbo kit drove from Canada...I think its odd that wasnt an option here in the states.

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

Hmmm, not a bad idea to consider for FI applications/track days... I should look into that; to tell you the truth those headlamp washers a pretty useless, other than for spraying washer fluid all the way up my hood when I'm on the hi-way.

Benjamz

You can get it here from the parts department at any Mazda dealer. I found out when they asked us if we wanted that bumper when my buddy had to do a front end repair on an RX8. I do not have the part number for it though. Sorry for off topic reply to OP.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

would be good to see his boost profile and compare with Esmeril racing's 416whp @ 16psi . Certainly from those base numbers the Renesis seems to behave similarly .....

PhantomRX-8

iTrader: (1)

Jeff made me the actuator that he uses. Im hoping it will be here this week if he got around to sending it. Ill throw it on and let you know if it resolves the issue. Then maybe you guys can work something out about what/where he got everything for it.

Bryan@BNR

Any help is appreciated. I am working with Gregs right now to test certain parts. Before we spend all this time on actuators, I want to check over his system to make sure there isn't restrictions or boost leaks.

Bryan@BNR

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

/\ cool

Frosty288

score. I can't wait to upgrade the turbo. I'll definitely be trying to get all I can out of it.

In other news, Frosty starts tuning his car today. Resultant chance of boom, 50%

Bryan@BNR

Lets get this boost drop problem figured out before we do anything.

No risk, no reward! I boomed one about 4 months ago running too much timing. Side seals collapsed... 5 hours later engine was back in the car running :D.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Holy crap!
It takes us 5 hours just to clean the engine components before assembly!
How did you get the motor out of the car, the engine torn down, cleaned, clearanced and assembled and then back in the car in 5 hours?!?!

When I take my motor out it takes 4 hours to do it by myself.

Frosty288

Psh.

I wish I could take my motor out...

I lack skillz.

Bryan@BNR

hahaha. Its in a 1st gen RX7 w/o power steering or a/c. I first did a compression check to see which side was messed up. I have special brackets to hold half the sandwich together. Since it was the rear rotor, I didnt have to remove any of the front of the engine (water pump, alternator, front pulley ect.) Removed clutch, flywheel, tension bolts and rear iron, I even kept the lower intake and the oil pan and the turbo/turbo manifold on lol. Popped out the rotor transferred the the good parts into another rotor, popped it in, zipped it all back up.

All the accessories are all easy to come out. The intercooler has 2 clamps holding it in, the DP is 2 v band clamps, intake pipe is 2 bolts, intake manifold and wiring harness can be removed in 3 minutes :D. 5 trans bolts, 2 starter bolts, 2 engine mount bolts. I guess the biggest pain is removing the radiator. I really like to simplify things when i fabricate parts. Makes it quick to work on. If the car gets past dyno tuning, A/C is getting reinstalled so that will add complication.