Maybe. Sometimes it's enough. Sometimes it's not. If it's not, you've got a few guys who aren't too happy with you anymore!

 

I hear the Texans are preaty tough dudes and they are crazy about anything rotary. ...probably won't be too much of a trouble for a couple of them to come down here and help a newb out

 

My thoughts: I think that the reason pulling the car works is that it drives the MOP and injects oil into the block. This is what restores the compression of a flooded engine. I did the same thing with my starter in the thread I referenced above - just laid on it for a couple of minutes. The engine was turning and so was the MOP. With this in mind, I would think that the guys pushing it would give out long before the engine started. When you pull an RX-7 to de-flood it it takes a while. The engine sputters and coughs for a long time before it finally comes to life.

If I were you, I'd just pull the plugs and inject a few cc's in the block before trying to push or pull it. Hell, you might even get the starter to crank it after that. Just beware that when I was laying on the starter it was submerged in water - keeping it nice and cool. I'd say there's a chance you'll fry it if you lay on it as long as I did.

 

I was going to go get that compression cheker...
How much was it at Pep Boys?

Putting oil is a trick I'll try. Doesn't seem to be complicated.
To be honest I am getting quite sick of it, and beginning to think about just calling the Mazda Dealer and having them deal with it.
Don't they owe us a one free deflood? I never used mine up...
Plus all the recalls and flushes I need to do anyway.

I spoke with the guy at the Delray Mazda, he says bring it over, he'll see what can be done under the warranty (though I doubt the warranty will cover much in my case)

I just want to try a few more times, and if not then the hell with it... Let Mazda fix it.
If god forbid the engine is blown, then I'll just have to look for someplace to get it rebuilt. Maybe street port it too and thicker seals while at it.

I just hope it is not the case though...

 

There is such a minute amount of oil coming in from the oil metering pump that it does nothing for compression. Just think about how many engine revolutions your engine completes in the time it takes for the engine to have 1 quart of oil injected. It's not even funny. A few revolutions trying to start it won't give you hardly anything.

The reason pull starting it works is because you are getting centrifugal force on the seals and they seal better. You need to do this without introducing any more fuel into the engine. When you are flooded, you have fuel getting under the rounded apex seal tips and it pushes up on them and bleeds off into the next chamber. This lowers compression. This is unique to a rotary engine and can't happen to a piston engine as their seals are sharp and not rounded. The more fuel in the engine, the longer it takes for this to clear out. As the engine spins some of this fuel goes out the exhaust port. As you get more pressure on the seals, less fuel can go around them and compression stays up. Then it ignites and the world is a happy place again. If you are using your starter, you are spinning the engine over but you are also adding more fuel to the mix. This complicates things. This is why they tell you to push the pedal all the way down to stop fuel flow. Even then it doesn't always work. Remember the oil metering pump is injecting oil then too. Just pull it and all will be well.

I've started a rotary that had a blown rotor before by pull starting it! If your engine has fuel and ignition working properly, pull starting it will work. Sometimes it runs rough right afterward but usually goes away in a few minutes.

 

Thanks, RG
I'll see if I can get someone to agree to drag me around :-)

 

Just to clarify, a good portion of the time I was cranking with the starter I did have the pedal to the floor to prevent injection of additional fuel.

Good point about the centrifugal force. But more fuel is being inejected when you're pulling it, right? Would flooring the pedal at first during the pulling process cut-off the injectors? I wouldn't think it would. I think the PCM has to detect 'start' in order for flooring the pedal to cut fuel.

 

What about leaving the pedal alone?

 

I would push the pedal all the way in for a while. When I was stuck in the water I alternated long periods with the pedal in (to cut fuel) with short periods with the pedal out. It took a lot of "feel", but it was obvious that it eventually wanted to catch when the pedal was out and fuel was being delivered.

Of course this only applies to the starter method. I don't know what would happen if you floor it while pulling it.

 

The car is back on the wheels!
I would like to extend a very special thanks to Moon Assad, for being a true friend, and coming to my house to help out, even though we have never met before. He just came over to my place on saturday, and in exchange for a couple of meals, a drink and future friendship, spent a whole day working together with me on getting the car up and running again. We had lods of fun.
Also thanks to RG for pointing out to a sure way of getting the car unflooded. Dragging it in tow of my wifes SUV did the trick. Thanks everyone else for your support and suggestions.

Here is what was wong:
My car has around 23000 miles on it of which around 2-3000 miles I put on driving with ZEX Nitrous System and another 3500 or so running my turbo with pressures as hight as 10 (and at times even more) psi. The car had a stock exhaust, with a cat. I guess when my ignition map got screwed up and got the engine running at 1900 F EGT, it was just the last drop. My poor converter couldn't take anymore.
Moon and I ended up taking down the cat and cleaning it out and reinstalling it.

If anyone is interested I posted a DIY on that here: https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...95#post1723995

Took as a liitle bit longer than we antisipated, as one of the nuts ( the top one ) was so cooked, that (and due to the lack of power cutting tools), we ended up handsawing the bolt off. And because of the space limitations, it was a very lengthy and painful process.

Once everything was done we hooked the car to the truck, pulled it around the block a couple of times with the fuel pump fuse out, which made the car backfire like a machine gun while spitting out flames and making a shitload of smoke. After the backfiring settled down a bit, we stopped reinserted the fuse and started the engine normally. Ir run rough for a minute and then came to life.

 

Good to know it was not the install that was the culprit .
Back to having fun now eh RR . Ib suppose it goes even better than before with the cat gutted ?

 

I told you the towing trick works!

 

I lost my original tune, so at this point I am using a copy of the map that Mysql posted ^. That map seems to be a bit too rich for me. The engine tends to boggle and stumble at above 6-7K rpm. I have to re-tune it again.
I had already done some of the work on it, but it remains to be unstable and I don't go too aggressive with it.

 

yeah, my map is richer than what shipped with the standard int-x. you'll have to drop fuel.

 

Intersting.
And how does it run for you.
I mean for me it literally floods the engine at above 5K.
I had to completely flatten out the rpm_crs to get it to run more or less normally.

 

See for yourself:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vTFWJiHOGv0

Boost controller is setup conservatively in this video.

 

I do not doubt, I am just wonderin as to how two of the same cars require such a different tune.

 

hmmm, I'm catless with aftermarket exhaust.

I also premix, vac numbers are -19 to -22 range.

before the map was richened, I would see 16 AFR under boost, which was not pleasing...

I also have aftermarket fuel pump, but when that was installed, it didn't require a change in the map.

 

Could this be because of the premix?