Greddy Turbo owners thread
01-06-2011, 06:09 PM
#177
I've heard you say this before and I don't get it . The compressor wheel is plenty big enough - are you refering to the housing ?
There is nothing different ,in the way the turbo is controlled ,to what you were doing when you ran the 3071 outside it's flow chart ?
There is nothing different ,in the way the turbo is controlled ,to what you were doing when you ran the 3071 outside it's flow chart ?
Last edited by Brettus; 01-06-2011 at 06:15 PM.
01-06-2011, 06:11 PM
#178
Yes - I'm sure you are . How much though ? Let's see your next dyno 
BTW - this discussion is what is behind my request that you find out what was done to your actuator . It would be good to know if your actuator is actually doing the work or whether they just jacked the WG closed .
BTW - this discussion is what is behind my request that you find out what was done to your actuator . It would be good to know if your actuator is actually doing the work or whether they just jacked the WG closed .
Last edited by Brettus; 01-06-2011 at 06:37 PM.
01-06-2011, 06:30 PM
#180
Yes - please explain .
Exactly the same thing . Only difference being you did it with a boost controller and large actuator . I did it mechanically .
If you think there is a difference in what the wastegate is actually doing then I would love to hear what that might be .
Exactly the same thing . Only difference being you did it with a boost controller and large actuator . I did it mechanically .
If you think there is a difference in what the wastegate is actually doing then I would love to hear what that might be .
Last edited by Brettus; 01-06-2011 at 07:06 PM.
01-06-2011, 06:45 PM
#181
What you did was make the actual wastegate port smaller so that it acted as a constant restriction.
By actually opening and closing the gate via normal boost control, a significant amount of heat and pressure is not forced to accumulate or overspin the turbo to get the desired result.
Pulsing the WG open and closed is not the same thing as simply making the port smaller.
01-06-2011, 06:56 PM
#182
Wrong!
What you did was make the actual wastegate port smaller so that it acted as a constant restriction.
By actually opening and closing the gate via normal boost control, a significant amount of heat and pressure is not forced to accumulate or overspin the turbo to get the desired result.
Pulsing the WG open and closed is not the same thing as simply making the port smaller.
What you did was make the actual wastegate port smaller so that it acted as a constant restriction.
By actually opening and closing the gate via normal boost control, a significant amount of heat and pressure is not forced to accumulate or overspin the turbo to get the desired result.
Pulsing the WG open and closed is not the same thing as simply making the port smaller.
It's the boost controller that pulses air to try maintain the Wastegate in the exact same position not the Wastegate itself pulsing .
1/Here is my approx boost profile . without a boost controller
3500-6000 7psi
6000-7000 10psi
7000-8000 8.5psi
2/ With boost controller turned on :
3500-6000 10psi (or whatever I want so long as it's more than 7psi) Note that WG has to be closed off even more than it is in scenario 1 to achieve this .
6000-7000 10psi
7000-8000 8.5psi
Now tell me how using a larger actuator does anything different than what is happening in scenario 2 ?
Last edited by Brettus; 01-06-2011 at 07:15 PM.
01-06-2011, 07:07 PM
#184
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I think what he is saying is that a lot more heat is generated when the exhaust gas can only pass through the turbine. amirite?
But, just curious, how does this affect turbine speed?
But, just curious, how does this affect turbine speed?
01-06-2011, 07:29 PM
#186
Don't take this too personally, but I made a New Year's resolution to allow people to fail and allow bad advice to stand.
It is not my place to save everyone - just the people that ask (pay) me to do so.
So, I'm gonna just point out that suggestions like this are 1) obviously bad and well documented as to why it is bad (just connect the dots); and 2) like monkeys flinging **** - some of it will stick.
So, you continue to do it your way.
If you ever get a chance to track your car or drive it in a seriously hard manner (instead of *****-footing it around and pretending that your power output is an actual success), talk to me again when you notice those funny little "results" in your turbine housing, center section and manifold.
It is not my place to save everyone - just the people that ask (pay) me to do so.
So, I'm gonna just point out that suggestions like this are 1) obviously bad and well documented as to why it is bad (just connect the dots); and 2) like monkeys flinging **** - some of it will stick.
So, you continue to do it your way.
If you ever get a chance to track your car or drive it in a seriously hard manner (instead of *****-footing it around and pretending that your power output is an actual success), talk to me again when you notice those funny little "results" in your turbine housing, center section and manifold.
01-06-2011, 07:57 PM
#188
I got over taking what you say personally years ago ....
It always seems to get to this point .
I wish you could just prove me wrong conclusively and shut me up (really I do - it would make me happier that way) rather than spouting off out some impossible to prove statement that we are all just supposed to believe because you percieve yourself to be the 'all knowing' one .
I wish you could just prove me wrong conclusively and shut me up (really I do - it would make me happier that way) rather than spouting off out some impossible to prove statement that we are all just supposed to believe because you percieve yourself to be the 'all knowing' one .
01-06-2011, 11:00 PM
#189
I've explained why it doesn't work the way you think it works.
I've held your hand.
The problem is, you want everything explained in your terms in a way that validates some part of your premise, rather than simply seeing that your cause and effect relationships have no basis in reality.
01-07-2011, 02:16 AM
#190
I've already done that.
I've explained why it doesn't work the way you think it works.
I've held your hand.
The problem is, you want everything explained in your terms in a way that validates some part of your premise, rather than simply seeing that your cause and effect relationships have no basis in reality.
I've explained why it doesn't work the way you think it works.
I've held your hand.
The problem is, you want everything explained in your terms in a way that validates some part of your premise, rather than simply seeing that your cause and effect relationships have no basis in reality.
Let me see if I can digest what you are saying here ......
Didn't you know that the NORMAL position of the wastegate is CLOSED ?
We only open it up to prevent too much boost being made and if you make say 10 psi at 5000rpm the position of the arm is the same whether you hold it mechanically or use a boost controller . It does not somehow majically become more restrictive just because of the method we use to hold it !
Yes ........ it is . With a BC you pulse it open to the same spot so both methods are making the port smaller .
01-07-2011, 02:31 AM
#192
That does not mean I wont argue the point if I disagree and have some experience to back up my argument . If your argument was convincing on this I would have caved in long ago .
01-07-2011, 03:13 AM
#193
As I have mentioned - I couldn't possibly care any less about your "caving" or anything like it.
My only concern is to make sure that other people don't try this or, at least, do so understanding why it is a bad idea.
I think it is pretty apparent that ALL admonishments I make around here are in that vein.
I just get the data sets in as a matter of record.
I accept that the vast majority of people that come to this forum for advice on these subjects are, for the most part, completely unqualified twits and can't discern the wheat from the chaff.
01-07-2011, 08:59 AM
#194
Original Turbo 'd Auto !!
and learn something everytime.
01-07-2011, 01:23 PM
#196
But we do it anyway for the same reason we fitted the turbo in the first place (which was even more of a bad idea) .
My "argument" is not "convincing" to you because you don't want to observe the facts, physics or data already presented in massive quantity elsewhere, hindered in your belief that the outcome you perceived in your particular circumstance amounts to something other than coincidence.
.
.
But the "facts" in this case (IE Greddy turbo on Renesis) , are that it works , it works well and there are no side effects.
As for the "physics" . Well I'm just really surprised you can't see that it does not matter who is holding the door shut .
Whether it's Tinkerbell or Jabber the Hut , the door is still shut .
01-07-2011, 02:20 PM
#197
Yes, there are. Significant ones, at that.
Believe me, before I started using bigger actuators back in '07, I had the GReddy actuator cranked all the way down.
You will crack your turbine housing and lay waste to your bearings.
This will eat your wheels.
The manifold pressure is completely different with your method. I know you believe otherwise, but I am telling you that the effect on the center iron is significant.
If you are easy on the motor, you might never know. But if you are really wringing it out, the damage is consistent, repeatable and obvious.
Believe me, before I started using bigger actuators back in '07, I had the GReddy actuator cranked all the way down.
You will crack your turbine housing and lay waste to your bearings.
This will eat your wheels.
The manifold pressure is completely different with your method. I know you believe otherwise, but I am telling you that the effect on the center iron is significant.
If you are easy on the motor, you might never know. But if you are really wringing it out, the damage is consistent, repeatable and obvious.
01-07-2011, 03:14 PM
#198
Could it be possible that you are pointing the blame at the way you cranked the WG rather than the fact that you ran the snot out of the turbo and it could not handle it ?
But you do raise a good point and I'm very hesitant to run significant boost on this turbo at the track for those reasons.
Last edited by Brettus; 01-07-2011 at 03:33 PM.
01-07-2011, 03:54 PM
#199
At the exact same boost pressure with the exact same amount of work, changing the WG system eliminated the failure.
This is not just on my own car, BTW.
It is also not the data used to come to the conclusion, only the indicators used to investigate the failure.
Both systems (actually, 4 different systems) were evaluated against each other using EMAP and EGT.
This is not just on my own car, BTW.
It is also not the data used to come to the conclusion, only the indicators used to investigate the failure.
Both systems (actually, 4 different systems) were evaluated against each other using EMAP and EGT.
01-07-2011, 04:17 PM
#200
It seems that based on the above tests , done specicically to test the very premise we are arguing about (but not mentioned before today) you made the following conclusion :
If you wring the snot out of a Greddy turbo on our engines (and the tune is good blah blah blah) - so long as you use an actuator and don't crank the WG.............................................. nothing bad will happen ?
If you wring the snot out of a Greddy turbo on our engines (and the tune is good blah blah blah) - so long as you use an actuator and don't crank the WG.............................................. nothing bad will happen ?