Greddy kit worth while
08-12-2009, 10:05 PM
#27
If the flow chart is anything to go by the 3071r is actually inferior to the BNR upgrade as far as power potential goes . The fact that the highest dyno posted for this turbo is 316whp after all this time suggests to me that it is less than ideal when chasing higher numbers .
It looks like the 3071r would be a better turbo for the 8 if it had an upgraded compressor wheel similar in size to the one BNR uses (60-1).
read this for reference :
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...2&postcount=31
It looks like the 3071r would be a better turbo for the 8 if it had an upgraded compressor wheel similar in size to the one BNR uses (60-1).
read this for reference :
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...2&postcount=31
It will out-flow the BNR. What's the highest BNR dyno we've seen? Under 300, right?
Most people with the 3071 aren't pushing it too much, since it feels SO damn good at low boost, like 9-10psi. I love my car at that boost- honestly I've run 12 and 14psi and it's a little scary.
Nonetheless I am probably redoing my fuel system for E85 and hitting the dyno (soon), so stay tuned kids.
08-12-2009, 10:13 PM
#28
I've seen what the GT3071 CAN do, I don't know why Jeff doesn't post the dynos.....
It will out-flow the BNR. What's the highest BNR dyno we've seen? Under 300, right?
Most people with the 3071 aren't pushing it too much, since it feels SO damn good at low boost, like 9-10psi. I love my car at that boost- honestly I've run 12 and 14psi and it's a little scary.
Nonetheless I am probably redoing my fuel system for E85 and hitting the dyno (soon), so stay tuned kids.
It will out-flow the BNR. What's the highest BNR dyno we've seen? Under 300, right?
Most people with the 3071 aren't pushing it too much, since it feels SO damn good at low boost, like 9-10psi. I love my car at that boost- honestly I've run 12 and 14psi and it's a little scary.
Nonetheless I am probably redoing my fuel system for E85 and hitting the dyno (soon), so stay tuned kids.
I don't even think he runs the 3071r anyway . I'm sure i read somewhere he had upgraded it to something else .
08-12-2009, 11:41 PM
#29
Jeff? No he runs the 3071 with some mods but none to the compressor or turbine wheels.....
I think he doesn't post the high RWHP dynos because then he will have customers barking about obtaining those numbers, and the likelyhood of blowing their motor becomes more prevalent.
I think he doesn't post the high RWHP dynos because then he will have customers barking about obtaining those numbers, and the likelyhood of blowing their motor becomes more prevalent.
08-13-2009, 12:31 AM
#30
Jeff? No he runs the 3071 with some mods but none to the compressor or turbine wheels.....
I think he doesn't post the high RWHP dynos because then he will have customers barking about obtaining those numbers, and the likelyhood of blowing their motor becomes more prevalent.
I think he doesn't post the high RWHP dynos because then he will have customers barking about obtaining those numbers, and the likelyhood of blowing their motor becomes more prevalent.
Unless of course he has upgraded the wheel size without actually telling anyone - hmmmm . Would he do something like that ?
08-13-2009, 07:59 AM
#31
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Also having MM to help this guy out with the turbo upgrade would be the best option I think. Only if he is willing to wait.
08-13-2009, 07:59 AM
#32
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That doesn't make sense Brettus... the efficiency for the 3071R doesn't really start picking up until higher boost than most people are running. It's a pretty big turbo and is capable of flowing enough for 400+ whp. Jeff doesn't have any changes to the 3071R over the one that he sells as far as I'm aware, but he is running 14 lbs of boost on the street and 11 lbs at the track. He doesn't post dynos of that according to him because most customers will not be seeing those numbers and he doesn't want to deal with a lot of grief about "I only got 300 whp". I would just post them and say "results not typical" but whatever. I agree the BNR flow maps look great too, and especially for the range of power most people are hitting its probably a better bet.
08-13-2009, 01:25 PM
#33
Have a look at the flow diagram below . I've put on there where i believe the 3071 would be operating at 310whp and 9psi .
Flow for this whp should be around 340g/s and pressure at the turbo is going to be around 11-12psi .
Note that the turbo is already outside its efficiency range at 310whp . And you say it will do 400whp ? Can't see how that would be possible unless this flow map does not represent your turbo .
Last edited by Brettus; 08-13-2009 at 01:30 PM.
08-13-2009, 01:38 PM
#34
Correct , it is more efficient at higher pressure .But at higher PSI the renesis wants to flow way more than the 3071 can provide .
Have a look at the flow diagram below . I've put on there where i believe the 3071 would be operating at 310whp and 9psi .
Flow for this whp should be around 340g/s and pressure at the turbo is going to be around 11-12psi .
Note that the turbo is already outside its efficiency range at 310whp . And you say it will do 400whp ? Can't see how that would be possible unless this flow map does not represent your turbo .
Have a look at the flow diagram below . I've put on there where i believe the 3071 would be operating at 310whp and 9psi .
Flow for this whp should be around 340g/s and pressure at the turbo is going to be around 11-12psi .
Note that the turbo is already outside its efficiency range at 310whp . And you say it will do 400whp ? Can't see how that would be possible unless this flow map does not represent your turbo .
08-13-2009, 01:54 PM
#36
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Damn 14 psi on the street, thats gotta be 350+ rwhp... but I have to agree, the complete BHR/MM kit will be the best bang for your buck. It has all the weak points of the stock GReddy kit upgraded and you can easily and safely drive 300+ whp with it.... I plan to order it next spring and i'm sure it will be worth all the wait... even though that will be a the hardest part.
08-13-2009, 02:59 PM
#37
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08-13-2009, 04:09 PM
#38
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Brettus, yeah, I'm not sure what's up with the flow map honestly. I'm hardly an authority on the subject, but from what I've seen with the turbo just from my early attempts I don't see how it can be right. I dynoed 295 peak whp at only 6 psi. Jeff cleaned up some of my curve and I hit over 300 whp with 8.5 lbs. Mysql was running 11 psi, and Jeff runs a lot more and were putting down a hell of a lot more than my 301 whp.
08-13-2009, 05:02 PM
#40
Correct , it is more efficient at higher pressure .But at higher PSI the renesis wants to flow way more than the 3071 can provide .
Have a look at the flow diagram below . I've put on there where i believe the 3071 would be operating at 310whp and 9psi .
Flow for this whp should be around 340g/s and pressure at the turbo is going to be around 11-12psi .
Note that the turbo is already outside its efficiency range at 310whp . And you say it will do 400whp ? Can't see how that would be possible unless this flow map does not represent your turbo .
Have a look at the flow diagram below . I've put on there where i believe the 3071 would be operating at 310whp and 9psi .
Flow for this whp should be around 340g/s and pressure at the turbo is going to be around 11-12psi .
Note that the turbo is already outside its efficiency range at 310whp . And you say it will do 400whp ? Can't see how that would be possible unless this flow map does not represent your turbo .
I do know Jeff has an off-the-shelf GT3071R-WG with a machined compressor housing back plate. That's it. And I've seen him dyno over 350-rwhp.
I also know other cars (yes, not the Renesis) make over 425-rwhp or so with this turbo at 25psi or less.
Last edited by chickenwafer; 08-13-2009 at 05:19 PM.
08-13-2009, 05:24 PM
#41
Don't you have an upgraded GReddy with the TD-18G wheel? Meaning that your 306-rwhp is surging the **** out of it if your calculations are correct?
Secondly, your calculations for grams per second are slightly off. 1 gram per second = 7.93664144 pounds per hr. So 40 lbs/hr of air is actually 317.4656576 grams per second of air, or 317.47 is you want keep it nice and sweet. This pushes back your claimed surge line. 50 lbs/hr of air would actually be 396.83 grams per second, which then bumps up the power expected at that level as well.
I do know Jeff has an off-the-shelf GT3071R-WG with a machined compressor housing back plate. That's it. And I've seen him dyno over 350-rwhp.
I also know other cars (yes, not the Renesis) make over 425-rwhp or so with this turbo at 25psi or less.
Secondly, your calculations for grams per second are slightly off. 1 gram per second = 7.93664144 pounds per hr. So 40 lbs/hr of air is actually 317.4656576 grams per second of air, or 317.47 is you want keep it nice and sweet. This pushes back your claimed surge line. 50 lbs/hr of air would actually be 396.83 grams per second, which then bumps up the power expected at that level as well.
I do know Jeff has an off-the-shelf GT3071R-WG with a machined compressor housing back plate. That's it. And I've seen him dyno over 350-rwhp.
I also know other cars (yes, not the Renesis) make over 425-rwhp or so with this turbo at 25psi or less.
2/This is how i got my g\s number
1kg = 1000g = 2.2046 pounds
so 40lb/min = 40/(2.2046x60) x1000 = 302.4g/s
3/I'm not doubting he made 350whp if that is what you are saying but I would be very surprised if he weren't makeing lots of heat and having to cool the charge to get there .
We have not talked about the turbine wheel here which is where the 3071 probably has an advantage . I know my wastegate has to be virtually closed to get 320whp . The BNR could be even more problematic . It has had some mods to the turbine and wastegate but I do wonder if the turbine will have enough grunt to drive the 60-1 trim wheel to its potential .
Last edited by Brettus; 08-13-2009 at 05:33 PM.
08-13-2009, 05:38 PM
#42
No, you were right on the grams/sec to lbs/hr. Google sent me the wrong formula, blah
The GT3071R has the upper hand of course in the turbine side of things. I think maps for the GReddy turbine wheel aren't even available...they are hard enough to get for the 3071.
I guess the only other thing to consider is you're assuming sea level operation, and since MM is above sea level by a good couple hundred feet, it pushes it up into the upper pressure ratio territory, but again the map suggest it shouldn't do that power......I dunno
The GT3071R has the upper hand of course in the turbine side of things. I think maps for the GReddy turbine wheel aren't even available...they are hard enough to get for the 3071.
I guess the only other thing to consider is you're assuming sea level operation, and since MM is above sea level by a good couple hundred feet, it pushes it up into the upper pressure ratio territory, but again the map suggest it shouldn't do that power......I dunno
08-13-2009, 07:34 PM
#43
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Maybe Jeff can chip in on this... because the 3071R is handling 300whp with no sweat at low boost, so I'm not sure beyond that. I do know that now that my MAF setup is sorted I plan to be pushing the boost up over time towards a much more aggressive number.
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