alex12345rx8

iTrader: (1)

So I'm looking into getting a turbo kit and reading through all of the posts. It seems like most people buy the Greddy kit and thenend up having to spend a whole lot more later to get what they want. So my question is whether I should by the greddy or hold off and just get the esmeril from the start?

chickenwafer

iTrader: (9)

It depends on your goals

The Esmeril is a good kit but it can't be used with the easiest and best EMS....the Cobb AP

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

If you buy the Greddy knowing you have to spend more to get the outcome you want it is still a good option .
Very bad option if you just bolt on the stock kit

blackenedwings

The upgraded Esmeril kit might be a decent option, as you have the option for a good turbo now, and a "low-profile" wastegate. Most of us do not favor the use of the Int-X tuning required by that kit though, as there are much better options available for other kits, like the Cobb AccessPORT. The previous iteration of the Esmeril kit was absolutely horrible, so I would definitely stay away from any used kits. Basically, do your research long before you start buying parts, I can say for a fact that it will end up costing you a hell of a lot more time, money, and frustration than you expect to finally get it up and running, but once you do there is nothing quite like a boosted 8.

turborx8

iTrader: (1)

To get the most of out a GReddy turbo kit you will need the following:

cobb accessport
3.5" cold air intake
silicone couplers with t-bolt clamps
blow-off valve
colder spark plugs
boost/wideband guage
boost controller

You will eventually need a turbo upgrade and the BNR hybrid is the best choice so far. It is also a good idea to get the BHR coils to avoid spark blow-out.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

As kane rightly pointed out to me - ditch the boost controller and put that towards the BNR upgrade .
Then just modify the actuator arm for boost control - once your tune is dialed in .

I found boost controllers work very poorly with the greddy and are a quick trip to dead engine land ....

chickenwafer

iTrader: (9)

Plus you don't need colder plugs unless you're pushing over 350 g/s of air or so, which is over 11psi on the GReddy snail

alex12345rx8

iTrader: (1)

So given that if you want to reach that 300 mark you are probably going to need an upgraded turbo, buying a used greddy kit is really a good option to start with

mscamp02

iTrader: (3)

If I'm right it wasnt just the turbo that had problems or needed replacing within the kit but alot of little things were wrong with it. (if you cant tell there are alot of used ones for sale here on this forum....I wonder why)

The big question is what do you really want out of a FI kit, is it power (go with esmeril) or is it realiability (go with Pettit). Do you research and try and find someone who really knows there stuff and get to talking with them to help clear up questions that would be better asked one on one.

bhop

Save your money. This will be a long journey, trust me.

blackenedwings

Just because its a long journey doesn't necessarily mean its a bad one, just go in with your eyes open. Don't expect to slap a used GReddy kit on and have a reliable 300+ hp car out of the box.

AngryBumblebee

it helps to have a second vehicle too when building a turbo car

bhop

Of course not, it should be fun if anything. I'm saying don't expect certain things just yet and there could possibly be ups and downs at times throughout the process. Once finished it will be a treat and then all you have to worry about is maintaining unless you want to take it a step further. Your right, don't expect 300hp from a used one but if he wants a good 300 hp he should go with Greddy along with a AP from MM. I was also saying save up on the side for just tuning alone.

I do have one question though. If you were to get the esmeril($$$$$), would this be a good idea to go with for a reliable 300hp every day not even at high boost. Since some people are claiming 400+?

chickenwafer

iTrader: (9)

People see the GReddy kit because they blow their motors due to bad tuning and need money to replace the engine, simple as that. And because there are 25X more GReddy kits out there than ANY other kit COMBINED. So naturally there are more to show up in the used market...

The only other things "wrong" with the GReddy is the couplers (which wear out, like any other coupler), and the EMS (E-Manage Blue or Ultimate). The Ultimate isn't terrible (but not great) but still won't work with the way it's wiring harness ships. Other than that the GReddy kit is good as can be- the rest is just cast iron and aluminum pipes...

You can't do 300-rwhp on a stock GReddy T618Z snail and the AP....well you might but it the turbo would be really out of breath and it would peak at a low rpm and the fall on it's face when you move past 7000rpm. Not ideal. Plus it would create mass amounts of hot air which leads to easier detonation.

The Esmeril kit is a great kit (once the knock-off turbo and w/g are replaced), but you're forced to use the Int-X which is A) hard to find now that MazSport is out of business, B) No tech support, and C)Inferior of the Cobb AccessPORT. Plus it's a pain to tune.

It's throttle response will also be MUCH lower than a properly sized 300-hp snail, like the BNR upgraded GReddy or GT3071R. If all you want is 300-rwhp I would recommend a modified GReddy kit.

RivalDrift

iTrader: (1)

Is there a reason why the AP doesnt work with the Esmeril kit?

blackenedwings

The MAF setup the AccessPORT requires is like stock, because the AccessPORT flashes the stock ECU. The Int-X does not require that setup, and the Esmeril kit was not made with that in mind. Chris has also made clear he doesn't intend to re-architect the kit to support AccessPORT tuning.

For reliable 300-350 whp I don't think there are any options better than a GReddy kit with a BNR upgrade turbo or a MM 3071R upgrade and the AccessPORT for tuning. That is by no means the limit of these setups either, but most people running this kit combination are in that range.

RivalDrift

iTrader: (1)

Ya Im also stuck deciding whether to get the Esmeril kit or the Greddy. Ill be using my car as a weekend warrior at the tracks and also for some "spirited driving" in the mountains. For me my goal is 350hp and if needed going up close to 400hp,with very little lag, as ill be using it for road racing.

Even with the BNR upgrade has anyone gotten close to 350whp? all ive seen so far is people just breaking over 300 with that upgrade.

RivalDrift

iTrader: (1)

I am also leaning towards the greddy kit more than the esmeril kit because although the turbo placement of the esmeril kit is bad ***, Im worried about heatsoak. I really like how the greddy kit is placed in the rear and low away from the engine bay.

mysql101

300 whp on the BHR/MM turbo is with very low PSI. I made that with around 9 psi and my boost controller wasn't setup.

I'm not going to make any claim if you can hit 350 with it - if Jeff doesn't want to post his results, I can't make the claim. But I don't see why you couldn't. At 12 PSI the car was a rocket, and it made 9 psi seem like stock.

Heat soak from the esmeril position isn't an issue.

RivalDrift

iTrader: (1)

bah too bad they stopped making the MM turbos... whats the max psi you guys getting out of those turbos?

bhop

Modified greddy kit, cool, but how much is this guy willing to spend once it is done + tuning. Sorry, was not really thinking about the upgrade. Modified greddy kit would be good for the money vs the esmeril I think. Now that I think about it, if esmeril claims 414 at 16 psi, is that pushing it? Would 300hp daily be easy for esmeril even at 8 psi daily what would the power gains be(daily driving)? I think someone needs to post some dyno's and compare the two. There is not really good explanations out there as to why have one over the other. I forget how esmeril got into discussion. I think this thread would be a bit better if gave a little more detail as to what he wants out of the kit if he decides to buy.

Mysql mentioned above that 9 psi felt like stock compared to just 12 psi at 350hp but this is not for daily driving I suppose. I have yet to see concrete dyno results with a 450hp esmeril. I don't know to much about the rx8 and greddy because proir to this I had a greddy turbo 350z but I can't compare to much because of the different driving experiences each car has given me. How much more reliable can we make the greddy kit for people who would rather daily drive with 320+hp

RivalDrift

iTrader: (1)

^I think there's a thread floating around with all the dyno graphs of all the different power adders available,and they're all plotted together in 1 graph so you can compare your options

05rex8

iTrader: (7)

huh?
http://www.mazdamaniac.com/upgrade/M...20Upgrade.html
http://www.mazdamaniac.com/upgrade/complete_kit.htm

blackenedwings

A BHR/MM complete turbo setup would be by far the best available turbo solution, because Ray wouldn't sell it if it wasn't a complete kit, and it would have all the lessons learned from the stuff Jeff has done with the 3071R etc. If Jeff is still offering the 3071R do not purchase it expecting to see next day (or next month) delivery. It takes a LONG time to get it, but imo was worth the wait. The fastest GReddy upgrade is the Bryan@BNR upgrade, which by all reports is very nice, resolves a lot of problems with the TD06 turbo by adding water cooling and a lot more capacity for flow without losing the fast spooling.

I can't speak for other people with the 3071R and peak capacity, but the turbo isn't even really hitting its stride until well over 10 psi. I'm running mine at 9 lbs of boost right now to get it dialed in and then I'm going to 11 psi. Anecdotally (whatever that is worth to you) I've heard of cars on pump gas over 400 whp with the 3071R. Jeff runs his at 14 psi on the street which is more ambitious than I plan to be, but he also tunes the car himself.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

If the flow chart is anything to go by the 3071r is actually inferior to the BNR upgrade as far as power potential goes . The fact that the highest dyno posted for this turbo is 316whp after all this time suggests to me that it is less than ideal when chasing higher numbers .
It looks like the 3071r would be a better turbo for the 8 if it had an upgraded compressor wheel similar in size to the one BNR uses (60-1).
read this for reference :
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...2&postcount=31