Fuel Pump Solution - All Failure Modes
12-17-2009, 07:50 AM
#202
Tony says, RX8s are GREAT
Ok, Thanks for the heads up. I will be using this fuel pump mod to feed a resivior and an external fuel pump to feed the fuel rail. This will eliminate fuel starvation under extreme cornering during touge/canyon and track events. I would hate to loose a motor due to all the fuel pressed up against the fuel tank wall.
Ben
12-17-2009, 10:34 AM
#203
No, that's wrong.
The siphon wont work like that.
Uh, huh?
The point of the pump upgrade is to keep fuel flowing.
Why would you use an accumulator/external pump AND the upgraded internal pump?
I sped a lot of time on the track and PIR has a NASCAR left-hander that puts all of the fuel on the right-side for more than 5 seconds. There is no starvation.
Where is there Touge in the US?
The siphon wont work like that.
Jeff,
Ok, Thanks for the heads up. I will be using this fuel pump mod to feed a resivior and an external fuel pump to feed the fuel rail. This will eliminate fuel starvation under extreme cornering during touge/canyon and track events. I would hate to loose a motor due to all the fuel pressed up against the fuel tank wall.
Ben
Ok, Thanks for the heads up. I will be using this fuel pump mod to feed a resivior and an external fuel pump to feed the fuel rail. This will eliminate fuel starvation under extreme cornering during touge/canyon and track events. I would hate to loose a motor due to all the fuel pressed up against the fuel tank wall.
Ben
The point of the pump upgrade is to keep fuel flowing.
Why would you use an accumulator/external pump AND the upgraded internal pump?
I sped a lot of time on the track and PIR has a NASCAR left-hander that puts all of the fuel on the right-side for more than 5 seconds. There is no starvation.
Where is there Touge in the US?
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 12-17-2009 at 10:38 AM.
12-17-2009, 11:53 AM
#204
Tony says, RX8s are GREAT
Jeff,
I know that the stock pump will out flow any external pump once the stock pump has no more preasure slowing it down when it feeds the resevoir in a loop. But I want to make a bullet proof set-up. I like your mod.
We have runs all year long in the canyons out here. We have alot of winding back roads. Look for chasing the touge dvd, those are my friends. Touge is everywhere in the US. Were just not making shows on it like they do in Japan.
We have experienced starvation before when running hard on the higher powered cars in immidiate left to right turns that causes the gas to slush around in the tank. If the tank is half to full, no problems. But some of our backroads are so deep it takes a full tank to make it through them. When were low on gas in the corners the fuel is not at the bottom of the tank for the pump to pick it up. It happens in drifting too. I know the easy solution is to keep a full tank. Unfortunately some situations arise where we can't keep a full tank as long as we would like to.
I believe you that for 5 seconds its good, but when your constanly going left and right you will eventually experince a problem. The set-up that I am making will support upto 20 sec full throttle no matter how hard your cornering. Also think of a cd player in the car. It reads ahead so that when a bump causes it to skip you do not hear the drop out in music. If you hit enough bumps or have enough vibration eventually you will hear a drop out in music because the cd player only read so far in advance. That is the same concept for the fuel resevoir. It is there to prevent a drop out in fuel when the car is performing under extreme conditions. It is also ment for relability and intended to be a supporting mod. I would hate to lose my motor because the gas was not where it was supposed to be. This upgrade will also come with my s/c kit. The only thing someone will need to get is their chocie of engine managment.
Of all the issues I have seen with the rotary in racing have mainly been related to fuel. Some call what I want to do is overkill, but with this set-up you will have no worries. Kind of like your guys coil kit... no worries.
Anyways your pump upgrade is sweet, but I need redundancy to be race reliable and to have the best possible set-up so that I have minimal un-forseen problems at the track. This is the very reason why we have dry sump oil systems because in hard cornering the oil in the pan is against the wall and not able to be picked up.
Now for everyday application and weekend warrior, your pump upgrade is enough. Eventually my car will be a dedicated track car, this is the main reason for my application.
also for anyone else who wants to see what I'm talking about.....
http://www.rotaryextreme.com/fuel.html
Ben
I know that the stock pump will out flow any external pump once the stock pump has no more preasure slowing it down when it feeds the resevoir in a loop. But I want to make a bullet proof set-up. I like your mod.
We have runs all year long in the canyons out here. We have alot of winding back roads. Look for chasing the touge dvd, those are my friends. Touge is everywhere in the US. Were just not making shows on it like they do in Japan.
We have experienced starvation before when running hard on the higher powered cars in immidiate left to right turns that causes the gas to slush around in the tank. If the tank is half to full, no problems. But some of our backroads are so deep it takes a full tank to make it through them. When were low on gas in the corners the fuel is not at the bottom of the tank for the pump to pick it up. It happens in drifting too. I know the easy solution is to keep a full tank. Unfortunately some situations arise where we can't keep a full tank as long as we would like to.
I believe you that for 5 seconds its good, but when your constanly going left and right you will eventually experince a problem. The set-up that I am making will support upto 20 sec full throttle no matter how hard your cornering. Also think of a cd player in the car. It reads ahead so that when a bump causes it to skip you do not hear the drop out in music. If you hit enough bumps or have enough vibration eventually you will hear a drop out in music because the cd player only read so far in advance. That is the same concept for the fuel resevoir. It is there to prevent a drop out in fuel when the car is performing under extreme conditions. It is also ment for relability and intended to be a supporting mod. I would hate to lose my motor because the gas was not where it was supposed to be. This upgrade will also come with my s/c kit. The only thing someone will need to get is their chocie of engine managment.
Of all the issues I have seen with the rotary in racing have mainly been related to fuel. Some call what I want to do is overkill, but with this set-up you will have no worries. Kind of like your guys coil kit... no worries.
Anyways your pump upgrade is sweet, but I need redundancy to be race reliable and to have the best possible set-up so that I have minimal un-forseen problems at the track. This is the very reason why we have dry sump oil systems because in hard cornering the oil in the pan is against the wall and not able to be picked up.
Now for everyday application and weekend warrior, your pump upgrade is enough. Eventually my car will be a dedicated track car, this is the main reason for my application.
also for anyone else who wants to see what I'm talking about.....
http://www.rotaryextreme.com/fuel.html
Ben
Last edited by Benjamz; 12-17-2009 at 12:23 PM.
12-17-2009, 01:04 PM
#206
The correct upgrade path would be two separate external pumps, each with a pressurized accumulator, feeding from a dedicated fuel cell.
That said, my point about the track was that I am in a near-constant left hand turn scenario, at the limit of grip, for nearly the entire course at PIR. There are only two right hand turns and only one is a sweeper.
I am in boost on all of the left hand turns and I see no fluctuation in fuel pressure, even when I get down below the 1/4 mark.
For anything less than a stripped, dedicated track car, the information in this thread is more than sufficient.
A dedicated track car would NOT be making mountain runs.
That said, my point about the track was that I am in a near-constant left hand turn scenario, at the limit of grip, for nearly the entire course at PIR. There are only two right hand turns and only one is a sweeper.
I am in boost on all of the left hand turns and I see no fluctuation in fuel pressure, even when I get down below the 1/4 mark.
For anything less than a stripped, dedicated track car, the information in this thread is more than sufficient.
A dedicated track car would NOT be making mountain runs.
12-17-2009, 02:29 PM
#207
Tony says, RX8s are GREAT
The correct upgrade path would be two separate external pumps, each with a pressurized accumulator, feeding from a dedicated fuel cell.
For anything less than a stripped, dedicated track car, the information in this thread is more than sufficient.
A dedicated track car would NOT be making mountain runs.
For anything less than a stripped, dedicated track car, the information in this thread is more than sufficient.
A dedicated track car would NOT be making mountain runs.
I hope no one thought I was debating anything, only mentioning how I like to overkill my set-up.
And.... most poeple would not bring out a track car to some night mountain runs.. but we have had some join for some fun in the past...lol
But very happy you have found an easy solution to the stock pump.
Last edited by Benjamz; 12-17-2009 at 02:54 PM.
12-17-2009, 03:33 PM
#208
Uncontrollable drifter
[QUOTE=MazdaManiac;3356294]No, that's wrong.
The siphon wont work like that.
Ok, I don't see why it doesn't, could you please elaborate on how it should be because I've read the posts and simutaneously drew it out. So please help me out if you have the time and the decency, thank you!
The siphon wont work like that.
Ok, I don't see why it doesn't, could you please elaborate on how it should be because I've read the posts and simutaneously drew it out. So please help me out if you have the time and the decency, thank you!
12-30-2009, 02:53 PM
#210
Liquid gas isn't explosive (its hardly even inflammable) and the vapor concentrations need to be really high to "explode".
You'll be fine. Just ground yourself to the chassis each time you get in or out of the car by holding the door latch striker as you move.
You'll be fine. Just ground yourself to the chassis each time you get in or out of the car by holding the door latch striker as you move.
01-01-2010, 07:05 PM
#214
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Mr. MM -- lets say a BHR walbro fuel pump is making its way to my house as we speak ... would I need an updated tune for any reason -- Ive been reading / searching and couldn't figure it out. I'm sick and tired of my car stalling / almost stalling every time I go for a couple of hard turns -- This would fix / mostly fix the problem right?
01-01-2010, 08:40 PM
#216
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no, but its on the to do list. Along with another compression test.
At this point I am sick of trying to figure out the issues Ive been having and replacing items that i was going to replace anyway. Since the walbro fits right in I was planning on switching it last year but got lazy.
Also for installation -- is the only thing you "need" to do is the o-ring? Is the melting optional? Also -- anyone around LI have the special tool i need?
At this point I am sick of trying to figure out the issues Ive been having and replacing items that i was going to replace anyway. Since the walbro fits right in I was planning on switching it last year but got lazy.
Also for installation -- is the only thing you "need" to do is the o-ring? Is the melting optional? Also -- anyone around LI have the special tool i need?
Last edited by heyarnold69; 01-01-2010 at 09:03 PM.
01-04-2010, 08:01 AM
#217
Oh yea, about the o-ring part. Hmm.
Ace Hardware sells it? There is no Ace Hardware around where I live ... Do you have the exact size of it MM ?
Heyarnold69, you not gonna do it now are you? its f-ing cold out.
I might get the official Mazda tool, a damn expensive SST but if I get it, maybe I can rent it out to people for 10 bux. sounds like a good deal ?
Ace Hardware sells it? There is no Ace Hardware around where I live ... Do you have the exact size of it MM ?
Heyarnold69, you not gonna do it now are you? its f-ing cold out.
I might get the official Mazda tool, a damn expensive SST but if I get it, maybe I can rent it out to people for 10 bux. sounds like a good deal ?
02-15-2010, 05:20 PM
#220
Question About The Resistor
If the only function of the resistor in the "CIRCUIT" mode of operation of the OE pump is to lower the volts by 2 volts to the pump under low load/idle/etc., would there be any adverse effects to eliminate the resistor all together? Would the PCM know the resistor was unplugged? What would the outcome be other than more noise from the pump?
