Esmeril upgraded turbo by BNR Supercars
12-10-2009, 03:08 PM
#26
However the AP is not exactly perfect on a boosted renesis. Remember we are flashing a pcm made for a naturally aspirated engine. Not that I am unhappy with my AP and how it works so far with my turbo 8; but there is always room for improvement, right?
*disclaimer*
I am not saying the microtech is better, but you probably knew that.
12-10-2009, 03:13 PM
#27
I agree with you, changing the induction of a car is always a problem.
We were discussing which sistem is "better", if we were talking about the "best" then... how much are we willing to spend to save an $4000\4500engine?
There are some very good computers out there but most of them are well beyond our budget and needs!
We were discussing which sistem is "better", if we were talking about the "best" then... how much are we willing to spend to save an $4000\4500engine?
There are some very good computers out there but most of them are well beyond our budget and needs!
12-10-2009, 03:26 PM
#30
The stock ecu cannot drive low impedence injectors. It cannot handle an auxilary input or output. It requires a proper maf sensor mount and flow for a response that can be calibrated. It requires functional O2 sensors to run in closed loop. As power level increases, it may require a new intake diameter to get a valid MAF response curve.
While I would agree that overall, the AP and using the stock ECU is a cleaner and generally superior solution, the availability of an ECU that is much more open ended than the stock ECU is important.
While I would agree that overall, the AP and using the stock ECU is a cleaner and generally superior solution, the availability of an ECU that is much more open ended than the stock ECU is important.
12-10-2009, 03:30 PM
#31
The stock ecu cannot drive low impedence injectors. It cannot handle an auxilary input or output. It requires a proper maf sensor mount and flow for a response that can be calibrated. It requires functional O2 sensors to run in closed loop. As power level increases, it may require a new intake diameter to get a valid MAF response curve.
While I would agree that overall, the AP and using the stock ECU is a cleaner and generally superior solution, the availability of an ECU that is much more open ended than the stock ECU is important.
While I would agree that overall, the AP and using the stock ECU is a cleaner and generally superior solution, the availability of an ECU that is much more open ended than the stock ECU is important.
12-10-2009, 03:45 PM
#32
Don't even check the price for a Magneti Marelli Marvel series ecu then
I agree with you but i wouldn't trade the computation functions\ speed and capabilities of a stock pcm over THAT particular Ecu. There are other options that can work better than a stock PCM but they all need custom wiring harnesses to keep some stock features of our ecu working and plus they cost more than the whole turbo kit
A serious ecu would be a cool alternative but who is willing to spend other 6000 or so $ for just the PCM? The stock ecu, on the other hand, is there and you can have the precision of a way more expensive ecu for the price of an accessPORT or proTuner.
You described part of the trade-offs very well but are they really trade offs? MAF sensors can be scaled, intake pipes can be built... Having to change from a winter to a summer map is weird to say the least and means that the ecu really can't adjust too much while our stock one does
The stock ecu cannot drive low impedence injectors. It cannot handle an auxilary input or output. It requires a proper maf sensor mount and flow for a response that can be calibrated. It requires functional O2 sensors to run in closed loop. As power level increases, it may require a new intake diameter to get a valid MAF response curve.
While I would agree that overall, the AP and using the stock ECU is a cleaner and generally superior solution, the availability of an ECU that is much more open ended than the stock ECU is important.
While I would agree that overall, the AP and using the stock ECU is a cleaner and generally superior solution, the availability of an ECU that is much more open ended than the stock ECU is important.
A serious ecu would be a cool alternative but who is willing to spend other 6000 or so $ for just the PCM? The stock ecu, on the other hand, is there and you can have the precision of a way more expensive ecu for the price of an accessPORT or proTuner.
You described part of the trade-offs very well but are they really trade offs? MAF sensors can be scaled, intake pipes can be built... Having to change from a winter to a summer map is weird to say the least and means that the ecu really can't adjust too much while our stock one does
12-10-2009, 03:51 PM
#33
It really isn't that big of deal with the "low" powered boosted rx8's out there; the AP does an excellent job with them.
But if one were to build a turbo powered, E85 drinking renesis, I probably would ditch the AP and go all out
Anyways...Nice work on the turbo Bryan.
But if one were to build a turbo powered, E85 drinking renesis, I probably would ditch the AP and go all out
Anyways...Nice work on the turbo Bryan.
12-10-2009, 03:56 PM
#34
That's what i would do as well, except for the e85 part since it is not available here. We only get good gas :p
All out means a serious ECU though, not the microtech
Anyway, back on the Esmeril married to the AP: i know that BHR makes custom modified AEM intakes as well to work with the greddy kit and an accessPORT. How hard would it be to mate that particular intake with the esmeril kit? There should be enough space to run a straight maf tube with the screens!
Here's the pic: http://usera.imagecave.com/boffam/Esmerilturbo.jpg
All out means a serious ECU though, not the microtech
Anyway, back on the Esmeril married to the AP: i know that BHR makes custom modified AEM intakes as well to work with the greddy kit and an accessPORT. How hard would it be to mate that particular intake with the esmeril kit? There should be enough space to run a straight maf tube with the screens!
Here's the pic: http://usera.imagecave.com/boffam/Esmerilturbo.jpg
12-10-2009, 04:03 PM
#35
Microtech ecus have coolant and air temp adjustment maps.
Anyways - this is getting off topic. It's nice to see someone expanding the offerings available to Rx8 owners. I know I'll probably have to do a turbo rebuild or replacement at some point.
If I were going to run an AP on that system, I'd cut the intake if it wasn't 3.375"+ ID inside the front bumper and extend the MAF wiring harness. I could already give you a company that would make you the piece you'd need.
Anyways - this is getting off topic. It's nice to see someone expanding the offerings available to Rx8 owners. I know I'll probably have to do a turbo rebuild or replacement at some point.
If I were going to run an AP on that system, I'd cut the intake if it wasn't 3.375"+ ID inside the front bumper and extend the MAF wiring harness. I could already give you a company that would make you the piece you'd need.
Last edited by maxxdamigz; 12-10-2009 at 04:06 PM.
12-10-2009, 04:13 PM
#36
I prefer a system with the turbo close to the header for a multitude of reasons i'm not going to explain now so the tuning will be fairly easy in my case as i already know that i'll be able to use the stock MAF based system.
Anyway since every "Kit" is pretty much the same since you apparently have to source your ecu etc i think that the small bit we left behind as an OT is not going to be completely useless
Anyway since every "Kit" is pretty much the same since you apparently have to source your ecu etc i think that the small bit we left behind as an OT is not going to be completely useless
12-10-2009, 07:05 PM
#39
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(Yes, I know you were just making a point, I'm kidding)
One day I *will* run an M600 on my 8... might not be for a long time, but I promise I'll do it
12-14-2009, 12:06 AM
#40
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How about we get back on topic since the first one of these r installed now. Still haven't drove yet cause tunning "hint hint" is needed but jus at idle it was sending chills down my back. Install was a super easy for anyone who did there own turbo install befor An if u haven't u don't need a turbo this big anyways.
12-17-2009, 06:08 PM
#43
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12-18-2009, 01:16 AM
#45
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So whats the difference between this upgrade and just buying and bolting on a Garrett turbo?
Is it me or is it just rediculous that half the " kits " available for these cars are based around ebay crap??? You would think this is a honda forum!
Is it me or is it just rediculous that half the " kits " available for these cars are based around ebay crap??? You would think this is a honda forum!
12-18-2009, 05:58 AM
#46
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I will get Chris's gas entire kit. Manifold and all, there is nothing on this kit that is from ebay I can assure you. As far as his regular kit if your referring to the turbo and you would like a "name brand' then just tell him he has the ability to replace the normal turbo with one. The build quality of the Esmeril kit is very good things won't break on you like the greddy kit.
Its funny how everything on the greddy kit breaks but no one calls that kit a crappy kit because it has a name associated with it?
Its funny how everything on the greddy kit breaks but no one calls that kit a crappy kit because it has a name associated with it?
12-18-2009, 11:21 AM
#49
Everything on the greddy kit breaks?
That's an ignorant statement.
Also just about everyone calls the greddy kit crappy; yet they don't even own one or a turbo 8 for that matter.
12-18-2009, 11:44 AM
#50
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Waiting on a base tune from ppo2performance " thanks Kane " to upload so that I can run the car an tune it on the dyon with out blowing it up first. So all that will be comeing soon. Any sugestions on what u want me to vidio.