Esmeril Racing Turbo Kit
04-23-2009, 10:30 PM
#53
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Holy crap, new manifold + a/w intercooler is win...
I didn't seem to see the Access Port compatibility mentioned before, has there been any work into getting that up and running yet? I imagine that adding that a/w could free up a nice path for an intake pipe through the standard intake chassis hole thing (highly scientific terminology there).
I didn't seem to see the Access Port compatibility mentioned before, has there been any work into getting that up and running yet? I imagine that adding that a/w could free up a nice path for an intake pipe through the standard intake chassis hole thing (highly scientific terminology there).
04-23-2009, 11:48 PM
#55
I think there would be significant tuning hurdles with using a MAF sensor and the AP. It would probably have to be in blow-through configuration (after the turbo as opposed to before it) and that I imagine that would cause major calibration issues. The best thing to do would be to look into how Evo's are running blow-through MAF sensors while reflashing the factory PCM, if they are in fact doing so.
04-24-2009, 07:05 AM
#57
I was wanting to go FI this summer and narrowed it down to 2 kits (this one and the pettit). Untill I started reading this thread it was a definite choice, pettit. But now I have to say I'm really starting to look hard at this kit, its 700 dollars cheaper, seems built very well and you guys are still doing R&D on it...not to mention its capable of 400+ hp which I'm not so sure the pettit can even come close to.
My biggest concern is reliability......I want a kit that I can use every day, wont kill me on maintenance (I have no problems with doing maintenance work just want to keep it half way simple lol), and can produce massive power on command
04-24-2009, 08:20 AM
#58
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I think there would be significant tuning hurdles with using a MAF sensor and the AP. It would probably have to be in blow-through configuration (after the turbo as opposed to before it) and that I imagine that would cause major calibration issues. The best thing to do would be to look into how Evo's are running blow-through MAF sensors while reflashing the factory PCM, if they are in fact doing so.
04-24-2009, 09:11 AM
#60
Right, but with the nice addition of the a/w intercooler it opens up (I'm assuming) the stock intake/vfad routing area that was originally filled with intercooler piping (I believe). So there potentially could be a viable draw-through solution if the intake pipe could be extended through the front bumper to create a CAI. At least that was my thought process when I initially saw the new setup...
Either way, it would require a lot of development time. Esmeril would have to make sure that people don't try and run the AP and then have serious driveability and/or reliability problems due to the MAF issues. Maybe the MAF sensor would work in one type of setup but not another (without significant recalibration). You may have customers not following installation instructions and then blaming either the AP vendor or Esmeril when something goes wrong. If the MAF issues are significant then from a business perspective AP compatibility could be risky to develop and market.
04-24-2009, 09:12 AM
#61
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I'm happy that the kit is going through new upgrades, so I just don't know if to buy now or wait a little bit for the improvements 
Good work Esmeril!
I remember that I have had another question about ECU I didn't get answer. I was reading on the mazdaparts.com that it's possible to ship the Interceptor-X with the kit. So, that Interceptor-X unit will do the trick with ECU, right?
Good work Esmeril!
I remember that I have had another question about ECU I didn't get answer. I was reading on the mazdaparts.com that it's possible to ship the Interceptor-X with the kit. So, that Interceptor-X unit will do the trick with ECU, right?
04-24-2009, 11:53 AM
#63
I'm happy that the kit is going through new upgrades, so I just don't know if to buy now or wait a little bit for the improvements
Good work Esmeril!
I remember that I have had another question about ECU I didn't get answer. I was reading on the mazdaparts.com that it's possible to ship the Interceptor-X with the kit. So, that Interceptor-X unit will do the trick with ECU, right?
Good work Esmeril!
I remember that I have had another question about ECU I didn't get answer. I was reading on the mazdaparts.com that it's possible to ship the Interceptor-X with the kit. So, that Interceptor-X unit will do the trick with ECU, right?
The interceptor will come with a base map which is rich and you can drive it around safely. They recommend that the car is tuned once it complete the 500 miles break in (drive with no boost). I have my kit install and all I need now is install the gauges and start up the car. I think you can just order the interceptor and has them program base map for you. Ask Mazdapart for more detail. I got mine with the kit.
04-24-2009, 01:18 PM
#64
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And what wat the extra cost for interceptor??? Please...
Second thing, you wrote that they provide base map (safe) ... Is esmeril racing providing some extra map (for performance)?
What gauges are you using, link will help, if possible...
Second thing, you wrote that they provide base map (safe) ... Is esmeril racing providing some extra map (for performance)?
What gauges are you using, link will help, if possible...
04-24-2009, 01:44 PM
#65
I will have Esmeril tune my car. According to Chris (I might be wrong this is from my memory) I could get up to 3 maps. The tuning costs would be around $250. The extra maps come from the safe map that has been lean out and certain adjustment will be made and this will increase the horse power from the safe map.
Gauges...I have boost, AFR (Innovate LC1 WB O2 sensor+gauge) and oil pressure gauge. Gauges are from Prosport. You can install more gauges and that is up to you. If you are not installing a lot of gauges, make sure you install the most important gauges like AFR to monitor the air/fuel ratio, boost gauge to monitor the boost and oil pressure gauge since the turbo require oil to lubricate the internal parts. Water temp, oil temp etc are nice to have but I live in colder climate and the chance that I will run the car that hard to over heat it would be almost never. I don't daily drive my car so traffic jam is out of question. That is when lots of over heating occurred.
Radiator upgrade is recommended. I will keep mine stock for now. Everyone I know that live in my area that has turbo in their cars said stock radiator is adequate. If you live in Arizona, it is a must have.
04-24-2009, 03:19 PM
#66
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That turbo has a 4" inlet. Clearly that MAF sensor was not designed to work in 4" piping. Maybe it could be made to work with the correct calibration or something, or maybe a different MAF would be needed. Or you'd have to use a smaller inlet pipe and a reducer, which would be restrictive.
Either way, it would require a lot of development time. Esmeril would have to make sure that people don't try and run the AP and then have serious driveability and/or reliability problems due to the MAF issues. Maybe the MAF sensor would work in one type of setup but not another (without significant recalibration). You may have customers not following installation instructions and then blaming either the AP vendor or Esmeril when something goes wrong. If the MAF issues are significant then from a business perspective AP compatibility could be risky to develop and market.
Either way, it would require a lot of development time. Esmeril would have to make sure that people don't try and run the AP and then have serious driveability and/or reliability problems due to the MAF issues. Maybe the MAF sensor would work in one type of setup but not another (without significant recalibration). You may have customers not following installation instructions and then blaming either the AP vendor or Esmeril when something goes wrong. If the MAF issues are significant then from a business perspective AP compatibility could be risky to develop and market.
Also, I imagine that if someone is dumb enough to not follow the directions of installing anything on their 8 without the proper experience, they are most likely going to have problems and will be unhappy with their product. This is no ones fault by their own, I don't even see why you would bother bringing this issue up as a reason against researching an alternate approach to do something.
04-24-2009, 09:07 PM
#67
Iam not sure if Chris is going to sell the improve turbo setup. He just pushing the engine as far as possible and I want to know how much he can squeeze from it.
But anything around 400whp you can get form esmerill turbo and int-x should make you happy !!
and I want to know how much he can squeeze from it.But anything around 400whp you can get form esmerill turbo and int-x should make you happy !!
04-25-2009, 11:33 AM
#68
Its not about changing the kit design. The kit works great in its current form and is ideal. The reason we are changing everything is because we can and we want to push the Renesis engine to limit. Air to Air are better street intercoolers under most circumstances, the reason we went with an air to water is because with the bigger turbo we wanted to reduce lag as much as possible and the air to water allows a very short travel from turbo to throttle body, not to mention that the intercooler has less internal volume to fill.
Best regards,
Chris
and we want to push the Renesis engine to limit. Air to Air are better street intercoolers under most circumstances, the reason we went with an air to water is because with the bigger turbo we wanted to reduce lag as much as possible and the air to water allows a very short travel from turbo to throttle body, not to mention that the intercooler has less internal volume to fill.Best regards,
Chris
OOPSSS! I edited my original post to read:
"Air to Air are better street intercoolers under most cirscumtances"
I mistakenly wrote Air to Water in the original post.
Chris
04-25-2009, 11:39 AM
#70
I will tell you what I know since I have been talking to them quite a bit during my installation. If you buy the interceptor through Mazdapart it will cost you around $700-800. You can keep your eye on For Sale forum and buy one yourself which may be cheaper. If you buy one yourself you will have to sent it to Esmeril and have them program the base map.
I will have Esmeril tune my car. According to Chris (I might be wrong this is from my memory) I could get up to 3 maps. The tuning costs would be around $250. The extra maps come from the safe map that has been lean out and certain adjustment will be made and this will increase the horse power from the safe map.
Gauges...I have boost, AFR (Innovate LC1 WB O2 sensor+gauge) and oil pressure gauge. Gauges are from Prosport. You can install more gauges and that is up to you. If you are not installing a lot of gauges, make sure you install the most important gauges like AFR to monitor the air/fuel ratio, boost gauge to monitor the boost and oil pressure gauge since the turbo require oil to lubricate the internal parts. Water temp, oil temp etc are nice to have but I live in colder climate and the chance that I will run the car that hard to over heat it would be almost never. I don't daily drive my car so traffic jam is out of question. That is when lots of over heating occurred.
Radiator upgrade is recommended. I will keep mine stock for now. Everyone I know that live in my area that has turbo in their cars said stock radiator is adequate. If you live in Arizona, it is a must have.
I will have Esmeril tune my car. According to Chris (I might be wrong this is from my memory) I could get up to 3 maps. The tuning costs would be around $250. The extra maps come from the safe map that has been lean out and certain adjustment will be made and this will increase the horse power from the safe map.
Gauges...I have boost, AFR (Innovate LC1 WB O2 sensor+gauge) and oil pressure gauge. Gauges are from Prosport. You can install more gauges and that is up to you. If you are not installing a lot of gauges, make sure you install the most important gauges like AFR to monitor the air/fuel ratio, boost gauge to monitor the boost and oil pressure gauge since the turbo require oil to lubricate the internal parts. Water temp, oil temp etc are nice to have but I live in colder climate and the chance that I will run the car that hard to over heat it would be almost never. I don't daily drive my car so traffic jam is out of question. That is when lots of over heating occurred.
Radiator upgrade is recommended. I will keep mine stock for now. Everyone I know that live in my area that has turbo in their cars said stock radiator is adequate. If you live in Arizona, it is a must have.
Chris
04-25-2009, 12:14 PM
#71
I'm happy that the kit is going through new upgrades, so I just don't know if to buy now or wait a little bit for the improvements
Good work Esmeril!
I remember that I have had another question about ECU I didn't get answer. I was reading on the mazdaparts.com that it's possible to ship the Interceptor-X with the kit. So, that Interceptor-X unit will do the trick with ECU, right?
Good work Esmeril!
I remember that I have had another question about ECU I didn't get answer. I was reading on the mazdaparts.com that it's possible to ship the Interceptor-X with the kit. So, that Interceptor-X unit will do the trick with ECU, right?
The intake manifold, we didn't plan on selling either simply because the 500whp numbers can be reached with the stock one and the cost to of manufacturing would be stratospheric. We might consider making a few for those that really want it and are willing to pay for it. Again, it was in part an experimental "why not" as opposed to a "we need this". If we test it and see that it provides great gains we might consider selling it. If we do choose to offer the intake mani it will be separate and again, it requires modifications of many other things like the oil spout which has to be fabricated to a different location, all the solenoids for the air pump, the ssv and the valve that joins the front and rear rotors will be gone and inoperable. I am leaving all initial 4 ports open all the time, no airpump and I'm still playing with the APV.
The Esmeril kit will still be sold as it is, with the new Tial WG and the option of the PT turbo.
Best regards,
Chris
04-25-2009, 05:47 PM
#73
Chris[/QUOTE]
I think otherwise.
I use a very short MAF tube on the end of the compressor and it works well. the esmeril kit may be a little more constricted but I think the space is there.
re-calibrating the maf is possible now for different sized pipes however I have been told that moving a draw through MAF to blow through doesn't require that much retuning as long as you don't change the diameter.
the key to a good MAF is in the detail: size and flow characteristics.
I think there would be significant tuning hurdles with using a MAF sensor and the AP. It would probably have to be in blow-through configuration (after the turbo as opposed to before it) and that I imagine that would cause major calibration issues. The best thing to do would be to look into how Evo's are running blow-through MAF sensors while reflashing the factory PCM, if they are in fact doing so.
I use a very short MAF tube on the end of the compressor and it works well. the esmeril kit may be a little more constricted but I think the space is there.
re-calibrating the maf is possible now for different sized pipes however I have been told that moving a draw through MAF to blow through doesn't require that much retuning as long as you don't change the diameter.
the key to a good MAF is in the detail: size and flow characteristics.
04-25-2009, 05:49 PM
#74
very debatable topic.great work! you are one of the most innovative tuners out there. I love how you're willing to try something different just to see how it works, you
never know otherwise.
04-25-2009, 08:51 PM
#75
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The intercooler set up will not be available anytime from us. It requires moving/removal of too many stock components to make it work as well as the mani.
The intake manifold, we didn't plan on selling either simply because the 500whp numbers can be reached with the stock one and the cost to of manufacturing would be stratospheric.
The intake manifold, we didn't plan on selling either simply because the 500whp numbers can be reached with the stock one and the cost to of manufacturing would be stratospheric.
I mean the kit is still sexy as hell though...