Dyno Comparisons - SC & Turbo
04-27-2007, 04:52 PM
#26
fancy stuff should be left off the pricetag, since a wideband, boost, egt, boost controller, etc. are all separate add-ons and the cost will be the same regardless of which kit.
greddy seems to sell about $3200. Hoses are about $120. $7 for an oil restrictor. EMU comes with the kit. So no extra charge. It's an extra $1400 if you want an int-x, but you'll get about $400 selling the EMU.
do know the final price tag for pettit with fuel management yet?
also, there isn't a stage 1 mazsport, it's TYPE 1. All their kits use the same turbos, just different layout configurations.
greddy seems to sell about $3200. Hoses are about $120. $7 for an oil restrictor. EMU comes with the kit. So no extra charge. It's an extra $1400 if you want an int-x, but you'll get about $400 selling the EMU.
do know the final price tag for pettit with fuel management yet?
also, there isn't a stage 1 mazsport, it's TYPE 1. All their kits use the same turbos, just different layout configurations.
04-27-2007, 04:58 PM
#27
Originally Posted by mysql101
fancy stuff should be left off the pricetag, since a wideband, boost, egt, boost controller, etc. are all separate add-ons and the cost will be the same regardless of which kit.
greddy seems to sell about $3200. Hoses are about $120. $7 for an oil restrictor. EMU comes with the kit. So no extra charge. It's an extra $1400 if you want an int-x, but you'll get about $400 selling the EMU.
do know the final price tag for pettit with fuel management yet?
also, there isn't a stage 1 mazsport, it's TYPE 1. All their kits use the same turbos, just different layout configurations.
greddy seems to sell about $3200. Hoses are about $120. $7 for an oil restrictor. EMU comes with the kit. So no extra charge. It's an extra $1400 if you want an int-x, but you'll get about $400 selling the EMU.
do know the final price tag for pettit with fuel management yet?
also, there isn't a stage 1 mazsport, it's TYPE 1. All their kits use the same turbos, just different layout configurations.
thanks for that - edited .
Gee -that Greddy looks better and better when you look at those numbers .
Also would be very interested to see the effect of the mazsport upgrade to the Greddy turbo
Last edited by Brettus; 04-27-2007 at 05:00 PM.
04-27-2007, 10:40 PM
#32
Power!!
Originally Posted by mysql101
shaun, also the x axis needs to be rpm for us to be able to use it.
04-28-2007, 05:03 AM
#33
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I have to step in here with my 2c.
I agree with RotaryGod and others that area under the curve is important. But I have to disagree that it's that important on the race track (road racing). I think that it's well known that racing engines are very peaky in search for max power. It all comes down to evg. rpm used on particular track. Our engine guy had 7 different cam shaft sets for different tracks - according to what he saw from data aquasition.
Remember that while racing you shift at red line and depending on gearing you have some RPM drop. So you don't really care what tq/hp is available under that RPM. You also look at you RPM drop in slowest corner which is usually not lower than rpm when shifted from 2nd to 3d but it depends on the track.
I don't have RX8 gear ratios handy but it's relatively close ratio box so it allows you to keep the revs high on a race track.
So in racing SRF will beat greddy hands down. But on the street... well on the street we need that low RPM torque. So greddy has advantage on the street.
I can back this up with some simulations on some well known US or European race track from which I have data at hand.
Thank You
Ted
I agree with RotaryGod and others that area under the curve is important. But I have to disagree that it's that important on the race track (road racing). I think that it's well known that racing engines are very peaky in search for max power. It all comes down to evg. rpm used on particular track. Our engine guy had 7 different cam shaft sets for different tracks - according to what he saw from data aquasition.
Remember that while racing you shift at red line and depending on gearing you have some RPM drop. So you don't really care what tq/hp is available under that RPM. You also look at you RPM drop in slowest corner which is usually not lower than rpm when shifted from 2nd to 3d but it depends on the track.
I don't have RX8 gear ratios handy but it's relatively close ratio box so it allows you to keep the revs high on a race track.
So in racing SRF will beat greddy hands down. But on the street... well on the street we need that low RPM torque. So greddy has advantage on the street.
I can back this up with some simulations on some well known US or European race track from which I have data at hand.
Thank You
Ted
Last edited by Tudor; 04-28-2007 at 05:06 AM.
04-28-2007, 06:37 PM
#34
the pettit sc curve would be nice to include. it should have an increase below 3k rpm.
I vote for average dyno curves to be used. max power can be freaks and un-safe tunes for max power that not everyone will achive.
I vote for average dyno curves to be used. max power can be freaks and un-safe tunes for max power that not everyone will achive.
04-28-2007, 06:56 PM
#35
Originally Posted by rotarenvy
the pettit sc curve would be nice to include. it should have an increase below 3k rpm.
I vote for average dyno curves to be used. max power can be freaks and un-safe tunes for max power that not everyone will achive.
I vote for average dyno curves to be used. max power can be freaks and un-safe tunes for max power that not everyone will achive.
Pettit will be added soon as we see a real dyno. But judging from the preliminary hand drawn graph, I don't think it will be pushing much under 3k since it's not optimized for low end - it peaks nicely in the upper ranges.
04-28-2007, 08:13 PM
#36
I did redid the graphs...
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...60&postcount=8
It's a lot more accurate since I didn't throw it together as fast as I could. The numbers line up properly, and the SFR kit is looking a lot better.
I don't have the dyno chart of the DNA SC handy so that is missing now...
https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...60&postcount=8
It's a lot more accurate since I didn't throw it together as fast as I could. The numbers line up properly, and the SFR kit is looking a lot better.
I don't have the dyno chart of the DNA SC handy so that is missing now...
i miss that snail.
jk
04-29-2007, 10:56 AM
#41
nice thread. I've been looking for something like this. A Mazsport kit (either type 1, 2, or 3) would be nice as well, even though I know it's pretty similar to the SFR kit.
A drag between an 8 equipped with the Petitt S/C and a properly tuned GReddy turbo (i.e. 270 or so rwhp) would be interesting. I think the S/C might pull from the a little quicker, but then the turbo comes to life and would pass the S/C equipped 8. But then it's around 7500 rpm it would be interesting as the GReddy runs out of breathe and the S/C is still pulling. Pretty damn close.
A drag between an 8 equipped with the Petitt S/C and a properly tuned GReddy turbo (i.e. 270 or so rwhp) would be interesting. I think the S/C might pull from the a little quicker, but then the turbo comes to life and would pass the S/C equipped 8. But then it's around 7500 rpm it would be interesting as the GReddy runs out of breathe and the S/C is still pulling. Pretty damn close.
04-29-2007, 11:33 AM
#43
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Not mine, but I thought you might be interetested to graph the original 9PSI pull that Scott over at Mazsport published. Link to DynoJet graph here: https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...chmentid=75528
04-29-2007, 10:03 PM
#44
Hey, I 2nd that we should be putting the psi boost too. I think the Pettit numbers were with 6 to 9 psi. But, it would be nice if it was confirmed. It looks like the greddy numbers are coming from 11 psi.
A "head to head" between Pettit and Greddy would be very interesting. For the RX-8 Autos though, I think the preference would be for Pettit because of the under 4,000 rpm boost. The Auto's have a slight torque advantage over the MTs as well, so low rpm to high rpm "speed ups" would be very interesting.
Also, if the ECU is flashed on the Auto and it has an ATF cooler than it could go to 8,000 to 8,500 rpm.
A "head to head" between Pettit and Greddy would be very interesting. For the RX-8 Autos though, I think the preference would be for Pettit because of the under 4,000 rpm boost. The Auto's have a slight torque advantage over the MTs as well, so low rpm to high rpm "speed ups" would be very interesting.
Also, if the ECU is flashed on the Auto and it has an ATF cooler than it could go to 8,000 to 8,500 rpm.
Last edited by sosonic; 04-29-2007 at 10:17 PM.
04-29-2007, 10:06 PM
#45
i started to list psi and price tag for base usable kit (means fuel management must be included). right now I only know of pettit base (5k) + int-x (1.5k), thus the 6.5k number. Greddy base price should be around 3200, but I added a few bucks for the hoses and pill. Though in reality you could be on the road running with the kit hoses, so maybe I should take that off...
I put in the hp for DNA, but it's graph clearly says crank horse power, which if it's measured at the crank, means it's a good 15-20% higher than it should be. Their torque graph was at a different scale, so I didn't bother plotting it till we find out about the crank hp number..
I put in the hp for DNA, but it's graph clearly says crank horse power, which if it's measured at the crank, means it's a good 15-20% higher than it should be. Their torque graph was at a different scale, so I didn't bother plotting it till we find out about the crank hp number..
04-29-2007, 10:30 PM
#46
Originally Posted by mysql101
i started to list psi and price tag for base usable kit (means fuel management must be included). right now I only know of pettit base (5k) + int-x (1.5k), thus the 6.5k number. Greddy base price should be around 3200, but I added a few bucks for the hoses and pill. Though in reality you could be on the road running with the kit hoses, so maybe I should take that off...
I put in the hp for DNA, but it's graph clearly says crank horse power, which if it's measured at the crank, means it's a good 15-20% higher than it should be. Their torque graph was at a different scale, so I didn't bother plotting it till we find out about the crank hp number..
I put in the hp for DNA, but it's graph clearly says crank horse power, which if it's measured at the crank, means it's a good 15-20% higher than it should be. Their torque graph was at a different scale, so I didn't bother plotting it till we find out about the crank hp number..
Plus, I thought there are a choices with the EMU. You could use the int-x with greddy, thus the price would go up.
It's not fair to comare the DNS SC crank HP with WHP for the others. Maybe you should calculate the WHP from their numbers and bring it down a bit, so the comparison would be better.
Last edited by sosonic; 04-29-2007 at 10:32 PM.
04-29-2007, 10:33 PM
#47
Registered
Originally Posted by Tudor
I have to step in here with my 2c.
I agree with RotaryGod and others that area under the curve is important. But I have to disagree that it's that important on the race track (road racing). I think that it's well known that racing engines are very peaky in search for max power. It all comes down to evg. rpm used on particular track. Our engine guy had 7 different cam shaft sets for different tracks - according to what he saw from data aquasition.
Remember that while racing you shift at red line and depending on gearing you have some RPM drop. So you don't really care what tq/hp is available under that RPM. You also look at you RPM drop in slowest corner which is usually not lower than rpm when shifted from 2nd to 3d but it depends on the track.
I don't have RX8 gear ratios handy but it's relatively close ratio box so it allows you to keep the revs high on a race track.
So in racing SRF will beat greddy hands down. But on the street... well on the street we need that low RPM torque. So greddy has advantage on the street.
I can back this up with some simulations on some well known US or European race track from which I have data at hand.
Thank You
Ted
I agree with RotaryGod and others that area under the curve is important. But I have to disagree that it's that important on the race track (road racing). I think that it's well known that racing engines are very peaky in search for max power. It all comes down to evg. rpm used on particular track. Our engine guy had 7 different cam shaft sets for different tracks - according to what he saw from data aquasition.
Remember that while racing you shift at red line and depending on gearing you have some RPM drop. So you don't really care what tq/hp is available under that RPM. You also look at you RPM drop in slowest corner which is usually not lower than rpm when shifted from 2nd to 3d but it depends on the track.
I don't have RX8 gear ratios handy but it's relatively close ratio box so it allows you to keep the revs high on a race track.
So in racing SRF will beat greddy hands down. But on the street... well on the street we need that low RPM torque. So greddy has advantage on the street.
I can back this up with some simulations on some well known US or European race track from which I have data at hand.
Thank You
Ted
04-29-2007, 10:37 PM
#48
Originally Posted by sosonic
I'm confused by the greddy price. From all the threads on it, it seems that if you don't want to have some major problems there are a number of things that you should upgrade. Thus this would bring its price up.
Plus, I thought there are a choices with the EMU. You could use the int-x with greddy, thus the price would go up.
It's not fair to comare the DNS SC crank HP with WHP for the others. Maybe you should calculate the WHP from their numbers and bring it down a bit, so the comparison would be better.
Plus, I thought there are a choices with the EMU. You could use the int-x with greddy, thus the price would go up.
It's not fair to comare the DNS SC crank HP with WHP for the others. Maybe you should calculate the WHP from their numbers and bring it down a bit, so the comparison would be better.
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-major-horsepower-upgrades-93/definitive-greddy-turbo-fixes-here-they-81825/
the new kits out come with the new emu.. not a choice..
you cannot combine the interceptor and the greedy emu they do the same thing..
beers
04-29-2007, 10:38 PM
#49
Originally Posted by sosonic
I'm confused by the greddy price. From all the threads on it, it seems that if you don't want to have some major problems there are a number of things that you should upgrade. Thus this would bring its price up.
04-29-2007, 10:50 PM
#50
Originally Posted by mysql101
I put in the hp for DNA, but it's graph clearly says crank horse power, which if it's measured at the crank, means it's a good 15-20% higher than it should be. Their torque graph was at a different scale, so I didn't bother plotting it till we find out about the crank hp number..
Also - price is US$7800 (from DNA site) and dyno was at 10 PSI (peak)
Last edited by Brettus; 04-29-2007 at 11:17 PM.