Dyno Comparisons - SC & Turbo
04-25-2007, 06:46 PM
#1
Dyno Comparisons - SC & Turbo
Seeing as we are getting some good dynos coming out lately I put this up for general discussion . I know we have discussed this to death but I don't think anyone has tried to put actual real world charts together to get a better comparison .
04-25-2007, 08:22 PM
#2
i like this thread... I can help out - here's an overlay of a few runs. It goes past 7k, so you can get a better idea of the greddy power curve.
keep in mind this was a very mild tune, so there's people with an extra 20-30 whp over mine with the same setup.
if you can get some high res shots of the other dynos, we can overlay and get an accurate comparison.
keep in mind this was a very mild tune, so there's people with an extra 20-30 whp over mine with the same setup.
if you can get some high res shots of the other dynos, we can overlay and get an accurate comparison.
04-25-2007, 10:04 PM
#4
thanks mysql101 - it was your chart I used but the one you had posted did not go past 7500 .
I'll do a better chart once I get info from Pettit installs & maybe put in SFR & Mazsport as well as they come along .
The numbers may be a bit out due to different dynos but I think they will be close enough for a good comparison.
I'll do a better chart once I get info from Pettit installs & maybe put in SFR & Mazsport as well as they come along .
The numbers may be a bit out due to different dynos but I think they will be close enough for a good comparison.
Last edited by Brettus; 04-25-2007 at 10:09 PM.
04-25-2007, 11:39 PM
#6
Registered
It's pretty much as I've said before. Centrifugals only make top end power. They don't do crap anywhere else and engines equipped with them make less power than stock until nearly halfway up the powerband. They are not a good match for a high revving engine. They have peak power. Take a look at the Greddy or Pettit runs. Those would be faster cars on the street as they have more average power. Peak power doesn't mean much.
04-26-2007, 01:21 AM
#8
putting it in a new thread so that the first post has the graphs:
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-major-horsepower-upgrades-93/dyno-comparison-rx-8-turbo-supercharger-etc-115447/#post1857145
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-major-horsepower-upgrades-93/dyno-comparison-rx-8-turbo-supercharger-etc-115447/#post1857145
Last edited by mysql101; 04-30-2007 at 06:18 PM.
04-26-2007, 01:56 AM
#9
thats awesome work mysql - can you put the Pettit in there as well please 
looking at that - I think I would prefer the Greddy to the SFR . Sacrifice a little up top but much better down low .
looking at that - I think I would prefer the Greddy to the SFR . Sacrifice a little up top but much better down low .
Last edited by Brettus; 04-26-2007 at 01:58 AM.
04-26-2007, 02:20 AM
#10
here it is - not the best but you can still pick the no.s off it
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...chmentid=85970
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...chmentid=85970
04-26-2007, 06:02 AM
#14
2 turbos > 1
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Shrewsbury, MA
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We need to get rid of HP ratings and start rating cars as area under the dyno curves. The largest area under the curve equates to the best average power for everyday use.
This reminds me.... why do we not have any torque curves in here...?
This reminds me.... why do we not have any torque curves in here...?
04-26-2007, 07:08 AM
#16
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Woodstock Ontario
Posts: 512
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by maxxdamigz
HP is a combination of torque and speed. If a kit makes more hp at a given speed (RPM), it makes proportionately more torque I should think. In this way, the torque curves would look similar. hp = tqxrpm/5252 I think.
04-26-2007, 11:55 PM
#17
Power!!
Wow. You know what's kinda scary...The Greddy really looks like the right turbo for street application and seems to have the most area under the curve overall. Very interesting. I didn't think the SFR turbo was quite as peaky as it looks compared to the Greddy unit. I guess I expected more grunt down low as well...
04-27-2007, 12:03 AM
#18
Registered
Just for ***** and giggles let's say the usable powerband is from 6500-8500 rpms. The Greddy turbo in this chart would have about an average of about 265 hp over that range. The much higher peak power centrifugal would also have an average of about 265 hp over this rpm range. In spite of the higher peak power of the centrifugal, which one do you think will be faster in a race? The turbo would have a more steady rate of acceleration whereas the supercharger would be slower after a shift and then catch up on the top end before needing to shift again. It would only finally pass the turbo in top gear after the rpms climbed high enough. I'm not even going to venture at what speed that is but usably you'll never see it.
Average power is why knowing only peak power is useless. When people ask how much power something produces, they are looking for a number that impresses them. Go buy a Supra if you want mega numbers that do nothing useful except during drag races on freeways at speeds well over 100 mph. On paper seeing 326 peak hp appears much more impressive than 275 hp, More must be better right? 51 more hp is alot. However it doesn't tell you the whole story. Average power wins races. Not peak. In this case the average power is about the same over the usable powerband at full throttle but anywhere else the Greddy will walk all over it.
Average power is why knowing only peak power is useless. When people ask how much power something produces, they are looking for a number that impresses them. Go buy a Supra if you want mega numbers that do nothing useful except during drag races on freeways at speeds well over 100 mph. On paper seeing 326 peak hp appears much more impressive than 275 hp, More must be better right? 51 more hp is alot. However it doesn't tell you the whole story. Average power wins races. Not peak. In this case the average power is about the same over the usable powerband at full throttle but anywhere else the Greddy will walk all over it.
04-27-2007, 12:52 AM
#19
well if you look in the first post that shows the pettit as well you will notice that it is not too far away from the greddy up top but way better below 4000 which is your daily drive range .
Without that glitch in the mid range there would not be much in it at all - be interesting to see if they have resolved that.
So for a daily driver I'm going to stick my neck out & say the pettit looks to offer the best all round compromise .
Without that glitch in the mid range there would not be much in it at all - be interesting to see if they have resolved that.
So for a daily driver I'm going to stick my neck out & say the pettit looks to offer the best all round compromise .
04-27-2007, 03:26 AM
#20
Originally Posted by rotarygod
Just for ***** and giggles let's say the usable powerband is from 6500-8500 rpms. The Greddy turbo in this chart would have about an average of about 265 hp over that range. The much higher peak power centrifugal would also have an average of about 265 hp over this rpm range. In spite of the higher peak power of the centrifugal, which one do you think will be faster in a race? The turbo would have a more steady rate of acceleration whereas the supercharger would be slower after a shift and then catch up on the top end before needing to shift again. It would only finally pass the turbo in top gear after the rpms climbed high enough. I'm not even going to venture at what speed that is but usably you'll never see it.
Average power is why knowing only peak power is useless. When people ask how much power something produces, they are looking for a number that impresses them. Go buy a Supra if you want mega numbers that do nothing useful except during drag races on freeways at speeds well over 100 mph. On paper seeing 326 peak hp appears much more impressive than 275 hp, More must be better right? 51 more hp is alot. However it doesn't tell you the whole story. Average power wins races. Not peak. In this case the average power is about the same over the usable powerband at full throttle but anywhere else the Greddy will walk all over it.
Average power is why knowing only peak power is useless. When people ask how much power something produces, they are looking for a number that impresses them. Go buy a Supra if you want mega numbers that do nothing useful except during drag races on freeways at speeds well over 100 mph. On paper seeing 326 peak hp appears much more impressive than 275 hp, More must be better right? 51 more hp is alot. However it doesn't tell you the whole story. Average power wins races. Not peak. In this case the average power is about the same over the usable powerband at full throttle but anywhere else the Greddy will walk all over it.
so in a straight line.. the cf sc is at a disadvantage in first gear to ~ 5 k.. after that all things are =.
on a road course. all things are =...
beers
04-27-2007, 04:06 AM
#21
Originally Posted by Brettus
well if you look in the first post that shows the pettit as well you will notice that it is not too far away from the greddy up top but way better below 4000 which is your daily drive range .
Without that glitch in the mid range there would not be much in it at all - be interesting to see if they have resolved that.
So for a daily driver I'm going to stick my neck out & say the pettit looks to offer the best all round compromise .
Without that glitch in the mid range there would not be much in it at all - be interesting to see if they have resolved that.
So for a daily driver I'm going to stick my neck out & say the pettit looks to offer the best all round compromise .
Last edited by sosonic; 04-27-2007 at 04:09 AM.
04-27-2007, 03:00 PM
#22
Go Texas Longhorns!
This shows why BMW's cars, which typically have been down on peak HP compared to others, can have such great real world numbers. They tune for AVERAGE power. The 330i before the new twin turbo engine was down on power to the G35, but yet sill managed to be faster.
This is also why I'm going to build a turbo 8 that makes about 250-260whp with a nice torque shelf and be done with it. I don't care if someone's car can dyno over 300 with a peaky power band, I'm going to walk all over them with average power in real world/track situations
This is also why I'm going to build a turbo 8 that makes about 250-260whp with a nice torque shelf and be done with it. I don't care if someone's car can dyno over 300 with a peaky power band, I'm going to walk all over them with average power in real world/track situations
04-27-2007, 03:06 PM
#23
Power!!
Originally Posted by Brettus
well if you look in the first post that shows the pettit as well you will notice that it is not too far away from the greddy up top but way better below 4000 which is your daily drive range .
Without that glitch in the mid range there would not be much in it at all - be interesting to see if they have resolved that.
So for a daily driver I'm going to stick my neck out & say the pettit looks to offer the best all round compromise .
Without that glitch in the mid range there would not be much in it at all - be interesting to see if they have resolved that.
So for a daily driver I'm going to stick my neck out & say the pettit looks to offer the best all round compromise .
Hopefully we'll see a dyno Chart from Shinka's install today or tomorrow to add in to the mix to get a better picture.
04-27-2007, 04:46 PM
#25
Something we need to add in consideration with these graphs is $$$$$$ .
Lets just talk basic - get you running kits , not all the fancy add ons you really should have as well ......
Greddy Turbo - add say $200 to replace crap parts......$3400
Pettit Twin screw sc -$5000 + $1000? (for EMU) =........$6000
DNA Centrifugal stage 2 ...............................................$70 00(check)
Speed Force kit with powermod EMS.............................$7500
Mazsport Type1............................................. ...............$8000
Not sure on DNA (site is down at moment) or price of EMU for Pettit but I know Powermod can be had for about $1100 US . Will correct if someone can help with those .
Lets just talk basic - get you running kits , not all the fancy add ons you really should have as well ......
Greddy Turbo - add say $200 to replace crap parts......$3400
Pettit Twin screw sc -$5000 + $1000? (for EMU) =........$6000
DNA Centrifugal stage 2 ...............................................$70 00(check)
Speed Force kit with powermod EMS.............................$7500
Mazsport Type1............................................. ...............$8000
Not sure on DNA (site is down at moment) or price of EMU for Pettit but I know Powermod can be had for about $1100 US . Will correct if someone can help with those .
Last edited by Brettus; 04-27-2007 at 04:56 PM.