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And yes stg is on the right here in NZ ...why do you ask?
Ah, I was just wondering... how much more space would you have had down there if your RX8 was LHD instead of RHD? Is the difference minimal? I'm basically hoping that w/ a LHD build, there'd be more wiggle room. But by how much? You've packed everything in there pretty tight, kudos lol! I'm still only halfway through reading your "Ultimate Renesis" thread (it's 94 pages long!)... XD
LHD def. has an advantage. It's quite a mission getting around the steering column with the pipe to the IC. Otherwise..................... much the same.
Btw, I'm curious... have you considered direct injection? Not just DI by itself, but rather, in conjunction with the existing port injection. I was sorta inspired by Toyota's D4-S system where they use both port and direct injection simultaneously. I'd probably want to place the direct injectors in the same place Mazda did on their 16X prototype motor, i.e. directly on top & pointing straight down. I have a totaled BRZ so I was thinking of harvesting the direct injectors from the FA20 motor. Anyway, technical implementation aside, what are your thoughts? Do you think this merits some investigation? Or would such an effort be more trouble than it's worth? I just thought this seemed like the "experimental" type of thing you might attempt lol.
Edit: Oh and, the spray pattern of the FA20's direct injectors are shaped in a dual-fan pattern:
But of course, there are various spray patterns from other vehicles as well... (e.g. multi-point, cone-type, etc...)
I imagine with the given angle, the fans would hit the sides of the "bathtub" of the rotor and deflect towards the centerline, thus swirling perpendicular to the rotor's axis of rotation.
Ah, 1 more thing... have you tried WPC treatment before? If I remember correctly, I think Mad Mike uses it on all of his builds. It supposedly works wonders on rotaries due to all the frictional surfaces.
Cheers staf
Direct injection : haven't thought about it , that would be an entirely new project . Possibly bigger than the turbo project itself.
WPC : don't know a lot about it .... what are the gains ? NVM ...watched the video ...
WPC : don't know a lot about it .... what are the gains ?
It's basically a surface treatment (not coating) that reduces friction like no other. It actually goes well w/ the existing nitriding finish or other coatings as well. It's more of a reliability mod than anything though... as in, I wouldn't expect any power gains. Although, if there were power gains to be had (due to less friction), it would be in the single-digit range. I imagine if your previous motor(s) had WPC treatment, then these results you posted in your other thread may have been avoided or at least minimized:
Ok, forgive my continued pestering... I am rather late to the party and have much to catch up on lol. Anyway, I was wondering if you're still using the intercooler featured in your "Ultimate Renesis" thread (I finally finished all 94 pages!) and if so, do you know the dimensions of the intercooler core? Also, did you specifically pick that type of intercooler design for the vertical end-tank layout? (i.e. as opposed to having the end-tanks on the left/right ends) This is the one I'm referring to:
Just asking because I'm trying to figure out if this intercooler would fit in an RX8. Even if it fits, I'd love to discuss the pros/cons of the differing end-tank styles. Thx!
The one in the link looks too small for anything above 300whp ...you haven't stated any goals so
Mine may be similar core size but because all the tubes are short and there are lots of them .... it is more efficient and has very low pressure drop.
I could benefit from a larger core for things like dyno pulls because in that situation you need a lot of mass to hold temp down without much airflow over the fins. But for the track etc it works great.
The one in the link looks too small for anything above 300whp ...you haven't stated any goals so
I c... well, the Mishimoto one I linked is rated for 500HP supposedly, but that could just be an optimistic figure since it's coming from the manufacturer. I don't really have a concrete goal other than to further Renesis R&D lol. But if I had to pick a HP target, then I'd say 400hp tops for a semi-realistic goal. Probably using that XR6465S turbo I mentioned before. I feel it's always nice to have more data for the community, hence trying stuff others have not.
However, if I had an unlimited budget, then I'd say my dream build would be a short-shaft 3 rotor Renesis using 4-port front/rear irons and 2x 6-port center irons (i.e. the reverse of what you did). I remember seeing a 3-rotor Renesis done by Hayward Rotary in the UK (I think?). Would probably utilize REC's CNC porting service for consistency as well (especially exhaust ports). For FI, I might go w/ a Rotrex C38R to accentuate the N/A Renesis powerband and rev to the moon. Yes, the middle rotor would be choked to some degree, but I wouldn't be trying to break any HP records or anything. If that was the goal, I'd go turbo instead, but I might as well go PP 20B if I did that (as opposed to a "20B-MSP"). It would mostly be for the "feel" and novelty I guess. Oh, and for science!! I'm guessing such a build would sit around the 500-550HP range. A guy can dream, right? lol
Honestly, that 3-rotor was my "long-term" plan for my BRZ before it was totaled, but since that's no longer an option I've decided to go back to my roots and purchase another RX8 and go from there. (I learned to drive stick in an RX8 long ago, in a galaxy far far away) Obviously, a 3-rotor is still a far into the future prospect, so my most likely course of action will be to slap a turbo onto a stock RX8. I'll probably pull the trigger within the next couple of weeks after I've settled into my new house (man, moving is a bitch). Anywho, I digress... but those are my "goals" more or less (sry for the tangent).
Edit: Btw, I'm not sure how thick your IC core is, but that Mishimoto one is a hearty 3.75" thick. So maybe that's why it's rated higher than it looks. Fwiw, it was tested on a Hyundai Genesis @ 576rwhp.
Yeah ...500 piston fwhp = 450 piston whp = 340rotary whp .... So pretty good rating considering how big it is (must be efficient design) ..... but still too small.
Hey Brettus, I was just watching this video on the new Supra and its B58 engine. I noticed the way BMW designed the exhaust manifold is kind of similar to the design of your manifold, at least functionally; except their's is integrated into the block. Basically no runners, with a small volume from the exhaust to turbo. I guess BMW concluded that pushing 3.0L worth of exhaust through those 2 fairly small exhaust ports (see video @ 3:55) wasn't much of a bottleneck. That just reassures me even more wrt your manifold design! I know it's an apples or oranges comparison, but still lol. Edit: I'm assuming the inside of that integrated manifold is hollow, but it may not be now that I think about it...
Hey Brettus, I was just watching this video on the new Supra and its B58 engine. I noticed the way BMW designed the exhaust manifold is kind of similar to the design of your manifold, at least functionally; except their's is integrated into the block. Basically no runners, with a small volume from the exhaust to turbo. I guess BMW concluded that pushing 3.0L worth of exhaust through those 2 fairly small exhaust ports (see video @ 3:55) wasn't much of a bottleneck. That just reassures me even more wrt your manifold design! I know it's an apples or oranges comparison, but still lol. Edit: I'm assuming the inside of that integrated manifold is hollow, but it may not be now that I think about it... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MckxlP60cnY
Edit2: Turns out they decided to make a more traditional exhaust manifold, so idk what to think now lol. (I didn't know you could 3D print Inconel!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jbn0ah3u9E
Man, I would love to see your manifold made using this process!
It's been modelled and is ready to 3d print and test fit . Then we will investment cast a trial version in stainless.
It's gunna look better, flow better and boost creep less than my fabricated one for sure
But as far as flow goes ..... There is close to zero restriction at either end under full load and that only leaves the siamese being slightly restricted which with all the testing I've done ...just isn't an issue.
Brett,
Any idea on the timeline for you getting the new manifold? How much do you want for the used manifold after you get the new one? Maybe just have several made at the same time?
Brett,
Any idea on the timeline for you getting the new manifold? How much do you want for the used manifold after you get the new one?
I think I could sell my existing one 10 times over ...lol ... But I'm not happy with level of boost creep on it as it is anyway ... most of that is due to the extreme efficiency of the G30 though !
Should have my 3d print ready for test fitting this coming week ...fingers xd.
Once I get the actual casting there is still a lot I need to do to make sure it works as intended. Maybe some track testing etc . I really don't want to be sending something out I'm not 100% confident in!
oohhhh the 100% requirement - that's sad news. I have been following your turbo research for years and it doesn't look like you will ever stop looking for improvements which means you won't meet that 100%. Unhappy
Sorry for the highjack, regarding intercoolers, just replaced my Greddy one with this https://www.holley.com/products/cool...rs/parts/FB604
Ducted, about 17C rise from ambient temperature. Drop in replacement for the Greddy, no front bar mods needed. It's partially ducted (I need to seal the underside). Recommend it 100%.
oohhhh the 100% requirement - that's sad news. I have been following your turbo research for years and it doesn't look like you will ever stop looking for improvements which means you won't meet that 100%. Unhappy
.... would it make you feel better if I said it's 99% there already .....
Should have my 3d print ready for test fitting this coming week ...fingers xd.
Is it a way to generate "read protected" 3D files?
I'm thinking that if this is possible, you could sell the files for financing the last 1%, no/little hassle for you. Metal 3D printer availability seems to be on the rise, and I remember Koenigsegg mention that 3D printing was more cost efficient than cast, and revealed new possibilities for them. Now this was some years ago, casting cost might have changed, and the possibilities might not be needed to a manifold, but still like the idea of just sending a file that we can print.
Is it a way to generate "read protectes" 3D files?
I'm thinking that if this is possible, you could sell the files for financing the last 1%, no/little hassle for you. Metal 3D printer availability seems to be on the rise, and I remember Koenigsegg mention that 3D printing was more cost efficient than cast, and revealed new possibilities for them. Now this was some years ago, casting cost might have changed, and the possibilities might not be needed to a manifold, but still like the idea of just sending a file that we can print.
Brettus, these guys are in your neck of the woods and can give you a quote for metal 3d printing (stainless 316, titanium, etc.) to compare against your above PLA method. https://www.ram3d.co.nz/
Ah, so you're 3D printing a mold, not the part itself. That does sound more cost-effective.
I'm just going with what my engineer is recommending ..... It's been 16 years since I was an engineer so I've completely lost touch with the best way of making things these days.
03-07-2021, 02:33 PM
