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Out of interest , this is from the rx7 forum G25 660 0.92 on 12.5 psi at peak rpm of 6500
Note EMAP is 23.0 psi at peak !
Not trying to say this is a good comparison with mine ( TeamZ4 ) because there is a lot we don't know about the setup. But combine this with with what we are seeing on u-tube etc and there is already reason to believe the G25-660 isn't the way to go vs the G30-660 .
Will you be testing the .83 housing or just sticking with the 1.01. Would be interested to see how it spools
Yes , I already have one ready to try ..... didn't put it on this time around because the T3 housing put the turbo in a different place than the 'v band' and things didn't line up very well.
Was just looking over your coolant temps and it's quite cool especially being boosted, what have you done in terms of cooling to get it to those temps?
Also, sorry to be a pain but do you think you'd be ready to sell these manifolds some time this year, possibly next? I know that isn't your primary goal and totally understand you want to be completely satisfied with it before you're comfortable with selling them. Really appreciate the effort you've put into this build and the Renesis in general!
Was just looking over your coolant temps and it's quite cool especially being boosted, what have you done in terms of cooling to get it to those temps?
Also, sorry to be a pain but do you think you'd be ready to sell these manifolds some time this year, possibly next? I know that isn't your primary goal and totally understand you want to be completely satisfied with it before you're comfortable with selling them. Really appreciate the effort you've put into this build and the Renesis in general!
I run a 38mm Al. radiator (nothing special) plus an additional radiator where the 2nd oil cooler would go . The main radiator is sealed up to prevent air bypassing it and all the original ductwork is still in place. The main thing though is that I've worked to ensure the intercooler is set up to allow sufficient air to bypass around it and have a direct route to the radiator. Interestingly , I've found that if you get that gap about right , both the radiator AND the intercooler work great. Only this week I fitted the Mazdaspeed front bumper and was a little apprehensive about how that might affect the setup . If anything I think it's actually improved the way the IC is working and so far I'm not seeing any issues with the radiator (although it's not hot here yet).
Setup with original bumper: Note the air gap underneath the IC, particularly on right hand side where many people have IC exit hose blocking flow.
New setup with MS bumper :
As for the manifold , I'm getting some made right now but not sure if I'll have any left over at this stage . PM me.
...The main thing though is that I've worked to ensure the intercooler is set up to allow sufficient air to bypass around it and have a direct route to the radiator. Interestingly , I've found that if you get that gap about right , both the radiator AND the intercooler work great. Only this week I fitted the Mazdaspeed front bumper ... . If anything I think it's actually improved the way the IC is working and so far I'm not seeing any issues with the radiator (although it's not hot here yet).
....
I've always liked the MS, and don't particularly care for the "smile" of the OEM bumper. However, the OEM bumper openings are effective in allowing direct airflow separately to the IC, rad, and oil coolers. With no bottom horizontal opening on the MS it'll be interesting to see how the rad (ECTs) perform when things get hot there. Major concern in my neck of the woods where ambient temps top 90°F four months of the year.
I've always liked the MS, and don't particularly care for the "smile" of the OEM bumper. However, the OEM bumper openings are effective in allowing direct airflow separately to the IC, rad, and oil coolers. With no bottom horizontal opening on the MS it'll be interesting to see how the rad (ECTs) perform when things get hot there. Major concern in my neck of the woods where ambient temps top 90°F four months of the year.
What is your average ambient high temp?
I agree that potentially the MS arrangement might not be as good for engine cooling. One of the things I realised with the OEM was that if you fit a large IC with in/out at the bottom , you actually block off a lot of flow with the hoses. If you take up most of that bottom inlet with IC but leave the area at the sides free (by using an IC with in/out in the middle ) you still get enough flow to the rad.
BTW ..... with the MS bumper I'm now seeing cruise IATs between 0 and 1 degree C above ambient.
We very rarely see temps above 90F here with average daily highs in peak of summer being around 77F.
... One of the things I realised with the OEM was that if you fit a large IC with in/out at the bottom , you actually block off a lot of flow with the hoses. ...
Agreed. Lesson learned...
Originally Posted by Brettus
...If you take up most of that bottom inlet with IC but leave the area at the sides free (by using an IC with in/out in the middle ) you still get enough flow to the rad...
This, of course, w/b relative to the ambient temp environment. Heat mitigation at mid/upper 70s may not be sufficient at mid/upper 90s.
I agree that potentially the MS arrangement might not be as good for engine cooling. One of the things I realised with the OEM was that if you fit a large IC with in/out at the bottom , you actually block off a lot of flow with the hoses. If you take up most of that bottom inlet with IC but leave the area at the sides free (by using an IC with in/out in the middle ) you still get enough flow to the rad.
BTW ..... with the MS bumper I'm now seeing cruise IATs between 0 and 1 degree C above ambient.
We very rarely see temps above 90F here with average daily highs in peak of summer being around 77F.
I don't have any logged data to back this up.... but we have similar summer climates and I didn't notice any coolant temp changes with my greddy setup after fitting a MS bumper. I wasn't monitoring post IC IAT's though so can't say much for that but I doubt there was any significant changes. I also installed an actual cold air intake to replace the stock greddy "hot air" intake when I put the MS bumper on so....
Here are the 3D prints for the first production run. These are all spoken for . Should be turned into cast stainless in the next few weeks covid lockdowns permitting !
Here are the 3D prints for the first production run. These are all spoken for . Should be turned into cast stainless in the next few weeks covid lockdowns permitting !
That's awesome! How do I get on the list for a future run?
Took the 3582 along with the cast manifold out after it's initial testing period. Yes it gets hot as evidenced by the change of colour. But there are no signs of any issues so very happy with how it's working out so far.
Final version ready to test . T3 flange is slightly forward which will enable better fitment for the G30-660 0.83 which will be going in in the next few days. The 3582 setup was awesome. I have high hopes the G30 will be even better.
Brett - please post more pictures of the installation and piping after the new version is installed. Just scrolled through the thread again and see the 2" 90d elbow off the turbo outlet but can't tell if the next pipe stays at 2" or transitions to 2.5" before increasing to 3" at the IC.
Brett - please post more pictures of the installation and piping after the new version is installed. Just scrolled through the thread again and see the 2" 90d elbow off the turbo outlet but can't tell if the next pipe stays at 2" or transitions to 2.5" before increasing to 3" at the IC.
The elbow is actually 2" to 21/4" then 21/4" through past the steering column then 21/2" to IC . Without the steering column there you can probably clock the turbo to have the exit vertical and go straight to 21/2".
it will better on multiple levels, but s recently discussed on RX7Club per the G40 thread not as good as a T4 divided manifold, even on a 6 port Renesis imo, best regards.
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For an REW .....I would agree.
But definitely not for a Renesis where:
1/We have an external WG diverting flow from the flange. T3 is more than sufficient to efficiently flow what the turbo needs.
2/We have 3 exhaust ports. Remember I've already experimented with a twin scroll and found limited gains and an unbalanced flow with this current layout.
3/We have limited space to work with. T4 turbine housing simply would not fit in this configuration, even If I thought it was a good idea.
Just saw this on the ATP site.
Is the 'V band' cross sectional area more on the T4,....... or is the divider on the T4 making the difference? Interesting because it shows how at lower flows (smaller AR) the difference is pretty insignificant but the difference becomes more of a factor as flows increase. I think we might see a similar thing with the T3 vs T4 debate .....
apology, I had deleted the comment because it wasn’t really relevant to your efforts and didn’t want it to distract from what you were doing.
since you beat me on the edit though, imo the comparison won’t be the same due to the size difference. I would suggest going back to when you started with a comparison between the past and present. Because I feel like a few details were possibly missed or overlooked that do represent a more significant impact on a G30 than what you’re referring to on the G40.
imo a divided housing can offer close to the same advantage over an undivided housing on the 3-port Renesis exhaust, but as you stated; just not with the manifold as configured here. That’s not to take anything away from how you have it configured, because what you’ve done is fairly ingenious wrt to working around the OE motor mount configuration etc., but again that design configuration existed for the 13B in several old school variations over the years.
Yet again, I don’t want to distract from your effort here and choose not to expound on it further. I’ll only add that the performance difference between a divided and an open housing is not truly represented on a turbine map. That will only be fully represented when the pulses are occuring in the actual engine application and the spool differences can then be measured/seen. When you only have one without the other though, it’s often not as apparent as having both side by side.
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08-19-2021, 05:51 PM
) because there is a lot we don't know about the setup. But combine this with with what we are seeing on u-tube etc and there is already reason to believe the G25-660 isn't the way to go vs the G30-660 .
. Should be turned into cast stainless in the next few weeks covid lockdowns permitting !
