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Brettus turbo 111 (the ultimate Renesis turbo ?)

Old 06-28-2015, 05:19 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by logalinipoo View Post
Good luck with that.
Thanks
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Old 06-28-2015, 05:35 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by Brettus View Post
Converted back to NA (f**k it's sooooooooooooooooooo slow) and drove it in to fabricators this morning .
Feeling somewhat apprehensive I have to say .
But it handles better :p
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Old 06-29-2015, 09:39 AM
  #103  
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^ And the exhaust would have been louder....Zoom Zoom
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Old 07-06-2015, 09:20 PM
  #104  
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interesting situation, have seen some info that suggests on a rotary that the 1.03 A/R Tial undivided turbine housing will spools just as fast as the divided T4 with better top end flow ...

would eliminate the big, clunky 4-bolt flange and also allow full clocking ability

http://www.tialsport.com/index.php/t...rbine-housings



.
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Old 07-07-2015, 01:17 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by TeamRX8 View Post
interesting situation, have seen some info that suggests on a rotary that the 1.03 A/R Tial undivided turbine housing will spools just as fast as the divided T4 with better top end flow ...

would eliminate the big, clunky 4-bolt flange and also allow full clocking ability

TiAL Sport - Turbine Housings



.
Hard to imagine that happening . Apple for apples comparison?

Mine is a T3 BTW

I found this a very interesting read and quite relavent to what I'm doing as far as flange/runner size :
http://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-.../#post11922624

Last edited by Brettus; 07-07-2015 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 07-07-2015, 12:00 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by TeamRX8 View Post
interesting situation, have seen some info that suggests on a rotary that the 1.03 A/R Tial undivided turbine housing will spools just as fast as the divided T4 with better top end flow ...

would eliminate the big, clunky 4-bolt flange and also allow full clocking ability

TiAL Sport - Turbine Housings



.
Im running the 35 housing on my set up.
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Old 07-07-2015, 12:38 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by hoss -05 View Post
Im running the 35 housing on my set up.
Which A/R ? Any feedback on it ?
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Old 07-07-2015, 03:44 PM
  #108  
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sorry, T3 flange then, not as severe as a change as a T4 inlet would be, but consider this

two 36.7 mm ID pipes = 2116 mm^2 total area

Tial GT35 inlet = 2228 mm^2 total area

T3 divided inlet = 2260 mm^2 total area (edited: had made a mistake calculating T3 area, original argument applied more to a T4 flange)

Tial housing ID is much smoother and nice conical transition, T3 is not as smooth or as gentle of a transition into the turbine wheel. Tial is also about 1/2 the weight of a T3 housing.

you would want the 1.03 AR Tial. .80 will spool nice, but will restrict top end.



.

Last edited by TeamRX8; 07-07-2015 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 07-07-2015, 03:49 PM
  #109  
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separate note, one of the things I really disagree with is your GT3582R turbo selection

the compressor is too big relative to the turbine for optimum rotary use.
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Old 07-07-2015, 04:40 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by TeamRX8 View Post
sorry, T3 flange then, not as severe as a change as a T4 inlet would be, but consider this

two 36.7 mm ID pipes = 2116 mm^2 total area

Tial GT35 inlet = 2228 mm^2 total area

T3 divided inlet = 2512 mm^2 total area

Tial housing ID is much smoother and nice conical transition, T3 being fed by two 36.7mm ID pipes will see a sudden expansion (velocity/pressure drop) and is not as smooth or as gentle of a transition into the turbine wheel. Tial is also about 1/2 the weight of a T3 housing.

you would want the 1.03 AR Tial. .80 will spool nice, but will restrict top end.

.
When you take off the radius at the corners and the divider, a T3 divided is actually 2260mm2

Re the GT3582 :
That theory about turbine size vs compressor size . I'm not convinced that it is a good indicator to performance unless A/R is factored into that same theory . I think a better way to look at it would be to work out the % wastegating.
What I do know is that for many years , the GT3582r was considered the rotary turbo of choice.

Last edited by Brettus; 07-07-2015 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 07-07-2015, 04:56 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by Brettus View Post
What I do know is that for many years , the GT3582r was considered the rotary turbo of choice.
WAS the turbo of choice.
BW EFR series is where's its at, there's plenty of info out about them.
That would of been my choice but I know you are dealing with a low mount and space is tight.
A GT35R is still a good turbo, back pressure/egts will build with higher boost due to the smaller hotside.
G/L
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Old 07-07-2015, 05:05 PM
  #112  
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I did take it off, but I was squeezing it in while working and used radius for the corner area calcs rather than diameter. That threw it off, sorry.

well if you look at the turbos that were considered of rotary choice; T04, 60-1, etc. the one thing they all have in common was approx. 1:1 compressor/turbine area relationship. The billet turbines alter this because they flow better for a given area, but this turbo doesn't have it. Higher A/R will flow, because it's letting air bypass the wheel rather than apply work to it. The 3582 is a 1:0.81 compressor/turbine relationship (expressed as 81 in the thread link below that discusses why 100/1:1 is preferred, which is discussed extensively on RX7Club):

Turbo Comparison... includes new 2015 turbos. see post one - RX7Club.com

the size EFR he would want won't fit in low mount position (discussed in a different thread here)

this non-EFR BW caught my eye though:

Borg Warner S300 60 PN177282 & 80.....6.383..................6.328............... ........99
as compared to the 3582:

GT3582R........................................... ........6.386..................5.171.............. ........81
but you'd have to confirm all the dimensions

.

Last edited by TeamRX8; 07-07-2015 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 07-07-2015, 05:06 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by firecran View Post
WAS the turbo of choice.
BW EFR series is where's its at, there's plenty of info out about them.
That would of been my choice but I know you are dealing with a low mount and space is tight.
A GT35R is still a good turbo, back pressure/egts will build with higher boost due to the smaller hotside.
G/L
Yes I did realise that and desperately looked at how I could fit an EFR down there without success . The Precision 6266 although much smaller than the EFR was still too big and only came in a T4 divided.
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Old 07-07-2015, 05:36 PM
  #114  
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Borg Warner S300 60 PN177282 & 80.....6.383..................6.328............... ........99

That's not gonna fit down low.

BW vs GT35r... Middle two turbos

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Last edited by firecran; 07-07-2015 at 05:39 PM.
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Old 07-07-2015, 05:39 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by TeamRX8 View Post

well if you look at the turbos that were considered of rotary choice; T04, 60-1, etc. the one thing they all have in common was approx. 1:1 compressor/turbine area relationship. The billet turbines alter this because they flow better for a given area, but this turbo doesn't have it. Higher A/R will flow, because it's letting air bypass the wheel rather than apply work to it. The 3582 is a 1:0.81 compressor/turbine relationship (expressed as 81 in the thread link below that discusses why 100/1:1 is preferred, which is discussed extensively on RX7Club):

.
I've read that thread a few times and again just then . I'm still not seeing anything definitive proving the theory .

Originally Posted by TeamRX8 View Post
Higher A/R will flow, because it's letting air bypass the wheel rather than apply work to it.

.
Really ? First time I've heard that . In my reading It's always been about lowering the backpressure required to spool the turbo by reducing the velocity of the gasses entering the turbine .

Last edited by Brettus; 07-07-2015 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 07-07-2015, 05:46 PM
  #116  
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why do you think a larger A/R spools slower yet flows more all else being equal? EDIT: actually didn't use the right terminology. It has more to do with velocity and the angle that the turbine wheel is impacted. The general gist is how the work from the exhaust is applied to the turbine wheel. At the same time a larger turbine area will have a lower velocity as well. You mihgt have a suitable argument.

it's just years of experience/evaluation, but yeah it's not an exact science. In general, Garrett turbos have that lopsided relationship and seem to be a better fit on piston engines as a result

Last edited by TeamRX8; 07-07-2015 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 07-07-2015, 05:49 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by firecran View Post

That's not gonna fit down low.
Plus ... the compressor housing I'm using is much smaller than a stock 3582 one anyway.
Garrett says reduction to efficiency "will be minimal" .
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Old 07-07-2015, 05:57 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by TeamRX8 View Post
why do you think a larger A/R spools slower yet flows more all else being equal?
Never thought about that ...

Originally Posted by TeamRX8 View Post
it's just years of experience/evaluation, but yeah it's not an exact science. In general, Garrett turbos have that lopsided relationship and seem to be a better fit on piston engines as a result
Yet ..... the 3582 has, up until recently , been considered THE rotary turbo of choice
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Old 07-07-2015, 07:33 PM
  #119  
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not everyone is original enough to try using the siamese port for a wastegate either
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Old 07-07-2015, 07:42 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by TeamRX8 View Post
not everyone is original enough to try using the siamese port for a wastegate either
If it works on a low mount , it will be worth trying on a top mount as well . In which case there wont be any compromises on turbo selection and the EFR8374 would be the ultimate choice .
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Old 07-07-2015, 08:21 PM
  #121  
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the 8374 is already the ultimate choice and since it has an internal wastegate that functions very well it makes your manifold idea a moot point for a top mount

and fwiw ...

BW EFR "8374"..........................................6. 626..................6.23....................94
but there are unique other features that make it function more like 100 on an older technology turbo ...


.

Last edited by TeamRX8; 07-07-2015 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 07-07-2015, 08:25 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by TeamRX8 View Post
the 8374 is already the ultimate choice and since it has an internal wastegate that functions very well it makes your manifold idea a moot point for a top mount
Maybe ................ Maybe not .
The whole reason for even trying this was to improve the flow potential through the exhaust ports . Which has been the limiting factor to getting decent power on the Renesis .
Same thing applies no matter where you mount the turbo or what turbo you use.
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Old 07-07-2015, 08:43 PM
  #123  
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Think 8374 with 1.05 Twin scroll External WG
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Old 07-07-2015, 08:44 PM
  #124  
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why?
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Old 07-07-2015, 08:57 PM
  #125  
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With that turbo , you could run 2x 45ID runners to the t4 divided flange and still use the siamese to WG . Down pipe wouldn't even need to be that large with no WG gases going through it ...

Last edited by Brettus; 07-07-2015 at 09:02 PM.
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