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I happen to have an S2 block here so I mocked up some old parts I have lying around . These are not the actual parts you'll use but show approximately what you will be dealing with.
Showing room under turbo for wastegate pipe Fitting would go approx where black cross is.
If you get a genuine Tial ...you should get all the springs .... but 7lb rather than 14.
I think 750s would work well with 1000s in P2 on an S2.
Thanks, ordered the BOV. You're definitely not the only one seeing delays. Bit of a lead time on the Tial parts right now. Looks like one of the clamps won't ship until the end of March at the earliest.
the current “short body/pintle” ID injectors won’t fit in the primary position. Only the earlier “long body/pintle” injectors will fit into the iron primary position. Because the fitment hole in the iron is deep and that extra length between the injector seal and where the electrical connector is located on the injector body is required for it to fit and seal properly.
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they don’t sell the long body style any more. You have to find them used or maybe leftover, or use different injectors there. In fact, the 1050x is the lowest flow they currently produce, they don’t even sell anything below this now because the injector performs so well at low flow rates. This also applies to Bosch injectors.
Thanks a lot Brett for the picture of the S2 block, was going to run a scavenge pump to the filler neck for return but I'll tap there instead now!
Suggest mocking it up with turbo and fitttings/hose in place before you do any tapping . It's tight and getting the hose set up so it's not kinked will be important.
The best solution may actually be to weld a short length of pipe in on an angle rather than tapping a hole.
the current “short body/pintle” ID injectors won’t fit in the primary position. Only the earlier “long body/pintle” injectors will fit into the iron primary position. Because the fitment hole in the iron is deep and that extra length between the injector seal and where the electrical connector is located on the injector body is required for it to fit and seal properly.
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they don’t sell the long body style any more. You have to find them used or maybe leftover, or use different injectors there. In fact, the 1050x is the lowest flow they currently produce, they don’t even sell anything below this now because the injector performs so well at low flow rates. This also applies to Bosch injectors.
Ah, Thanks! That explains why "secondaries only".
I think that's also part of what Rob Dahm had to do when he machined primaries into his plates. He added cutouts for the electric connection. But those were billet plates.
It looks like a few places still sell ID725 and ID1000, which appear to be in that longer body. Although they do state it would only work in the secondaries.
If only the 1050x would fit...
No reason you can't just use the S2 Browns in p1 and the ID 1000's in Sec. Certainly if it were me tuning it ...that's what I'd prefer 100%.
Mainly because you know the latency tables will be 100% correct for the important idle/cruise/rolling on the throttle portions of the map. The ID's do provide good information for latency but not for the complete table so there is still some guessing that has to be done.
I thought they had already provided the full data for those on the RX8 a long time ago, but having never done it in the factory software I may be mistaken on that. A number of people here have run them in the primary position, think Slash was one of them.
I had also been considering putting an extension off the OE oil pan similar to the S2, but more with the intended purpose of making sure to minimize any possibly of oil ever backing up from the CHRA drain.
Very interesting for sure Brettus, keep up the good work.
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Plus ........... I've already tuned an S2 with that combo and it runs mint!
Ok, for that reason I'll just have my browns serviced and use them. I'm tempted still to consider other injectors in the primary position but will wait for after the initial setup to be complete.
On the intercooler, you went with a different, vertical flow. Right?
I'm still thinking air-water but haven't solidified plans yet.
Last edited by 3toedSloth; 02-13-2022 at 05:36 PM.
Suggest mocking it up with turbo and fitttings/hose in place before you do any tapping . It's tight and getting the hose set up so it's not kinked will be important.
The best solution may actually be to weld a short length of pipe in on an angle rather than tapping a hole.
Will do, when I start mocking up the downpipe I’ll have a look at that and see how to go about it. Just gotta find the time to work on these cars 😅
I thought they had already provided the full data for those on the RX8 a long time ago
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I've used the standard table they provide which only fills in one line on the rx8 table so have guessed the rest . You may have mentioned a full table for the 8 before but I've never actually seen it.
On the intercooler, you went with a different, vertical flow. Right?
I'm still thinking air-water but haven't solidified plans yet.
Yeah , the IC i have is custom and works exceptionally well. Unfortunately it would be impractical to make one the same. I actually cut the end tanks off a cheap EBAY IC , modified the top one for direct flow to throttle and had them welded onto an 8" vertical flow Vibrant core. Happy to provide more thorough info if you want to make one.
Air-water isn't everything they are cracked up to be IMO ..... have talked with several people that have/had them and they seem to only work well in certain situations.
Yeah , the IC i have is custom and works exceptionally well. Unfortunately it would be impractical to make one the same. I actually cut the end tanks off a cheap EBAY IC , modified the top one for direct flow to throttle and had them welded onto an 8" vertical flow Vibrant core. Happy to provide more thorough info if you want to make one.
Air-water isn't everything they are cracked up to be IMO ..... have talked with several people that have/had them and they seem to only work well in certain situations.
Yeah, and we're not cranking tons of boost either. The key is to have an intercooler. One that is capable of the flow rates. I've seen a number of people review the differences and many say its basically no different in practice.
For me it's less about that and more about ease of install, plumbing, and minimizing the cutting required. Air-2-water heat exchangers come in many different shapes and sizes, and the hoses are a lot easier to route. Yeah, it's a little more complex with a pump and so on, but I also water-cool other things (e.g. computers), so it isn't that unusual for me. My Mazdaspeed6 is A2W.
I'm going to pay attention to heat shielding, as you have. Try to keep as much heat in/around the exhaust as possible and away from the intake. Although I've heard that other things can make a bigger difference... like injecting fuel or meth further up the intake to help cool the charge. But that's for later. After a full rebuild, and maybe an aftermarket ECU.
Last edited by 3toedSloth; 02-14-2022 at 02:49 AM.
Nice! RE: injectors, any recommendations for S1? It was bitterly cold at COTA and I had space shuttle oring type issues when I smelled fuel before a run. The above discussion sounded more for S2.
Also...2:52.1 was the best I could do due to traffic. Seriously missing boost. Hahaha.
I'm running series 2 injectors atm and they are working great . green/brown/brown ....... 3600cc .... More than enough for what you can do safely with pump gas but a bit limited if you want to push things with ethanol.
Good to see things coming along. I applaud your transparency surrounding the achievements and challenges w/ the fabrication process. Everyone wants product sooner vs later, but "life happens"; and keeping specifically your customers, and the community, proactively and well informed - good business.
I applaud your transparency surrounding the achievements and challenges w/ the fabrication process.
Agreed!
And it looks like the castings came out nicely! Not many imperfections (always some in casting). Even the BRETTSPEED logo and lines from the 3D printed plugs came through. They must have used some very fine sand.
I have been slowly gathering parts for the build, but I'm patient. I even have a new shop! But it will take a month at least to get to the point I can do this project.
Also, I need to get my speed6 running first. It's has been waiting for shop space for a long while. It's my DD.
Update :
Much to my frustration I don't have much to report. The castings are at the engineers for welding/machining and have been there for weeks .
Meanwhile the covid Omicron outbreak here in NZ is at it's peak right now. Almost all businesses have been hit by staff shortages due to actual covid or close contact isolation requirements. Result is .... everything is taking more time and my project while it's important to me and those waiting , is not top of the list for the Engineers.
I don't even have an ETA at this time despite pestering them repeatedly. I'm currently trying to get at least a couple of them done by another party.
Will advise as soon as I know anything.
02-07-2022, 01:22 PM
