Blackenedwings Franken-turbo install thread
07-27-2009, 07:59 PM
#177
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Yeah, to give Ray from PFS credit where it is due... he is a respected rotary tuner. He knows how to tune an RX-8, he has tuned several turbocharged 8s, he just doesn't know the Cobb software at all and its so completely different from the software he uses that he doesn't know where to make the changes he needs to make to get the car sorted. He has been dynoing it with race gas with very conservative settings trying to figure out the things he needs to properly scale the injectors, adjust the dwell etc... but its like playing with a handgrenade, eventually you will **** up and pull the pin.
07-27-2009, 07:59 PM
#178
You need to march down there now - hopefully they have the car in a running condition . Negotiate a price for the work they have done so far less ******* about time and then drive the car outta there (hopefully they have not killed the motor already) .
Then you can reassess your options for tuning once you get the car back ...
Sounds like they lied to you about their capabilities so I would not trust them from this point onwards
Then you can reassess your options for tuning once you get the car back ...
Sounds like they lied to you about their capabilities so I would not trust them from this point onwards
You know there are options for free open source tuning - you just have to do some legwork.
07-27-2009, 08:01 PM
#179
Yeah, to give Ray from PFS credit where it is due... he is a respected rotary tuner. He knows how to tune an RX-8, he has tuned several turbocharged 8s, he just doesn't know the Cobb software at all and its so completely different from the software he uses that he doesn't know where to make the changes he needs to make to get the car sorted. He has been dynoing it with race gas with very conservative settings trying to figure out the things he needs to properly scale the injectors, adjust the dwell etc... but its like playing with a handgrenade, eventually you will **** up and pull the pin.
maybe ray knows that software
07-27-2009, 08:03 PM
#180
Life begins @ 30 psi
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Well, I'm going to see if I can get Ray from PFS to run the car on the dyno and datalog changes to the base MM map and get Jeff to work with him to get the car out of the shop. The money for the tune can go to Jeff for doing the tuning, the money for the dyno pulls can go to Ray, and I won't sue the **** out of PFS.
07-27-2009, 08:16 PM
#182
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All of that is forgivable. Honestly if I picked up my car and was able to drive it away I would have written a glowing review about how it was worth the wait despite the communication problems. The timeframe is not my complaint. The installation including brakes and tuning brings the total of this job to $3000 not $1600 but I don't have a problem with the cost either.
What I do have a problem with is that I was greatly misled about their tuning capabilities and now I'm up **** creek without a paddle. I was told that they had the AccessPORT software and had tuned RX-8s before with it and it was no problem to tune my setup with it. What they didn't tell me is that I was actually the first RX-8 they had on the dyno with the AccessPORT. I can only assume they expected the Cobb RaceTuner software (no they apparently don't have ProTuner) to work the same way other ECU software did. Boy where they surprised. So they have been dynoing my car for two days without any idea what they are doing.
What I do have a problem with is that I was greatly misled about their tuning capabilities and now I'm up **** creek without a paddle. I was told that they had the AccessPORT software and had tuned RX-8s before with it and it was no problem to tune my setup with it. What they didn't tell me is that I was actually the first RX-8 they had on the dyno with the AccessPORT. I can only assume they expected the Cobb RaceTuner software (no they apparently don't have ProTuner) to work the same way other ECU software did. Boy where they surprised. So they have been dynoing my car for two days without any idea what they are doing.
I didn't want to put a huge burden on the locals here. I've been helped out a lot by the folks here and they are a good bunch. I appreciated the help, but there comes a point when you are just taking advantage of people. Dan in particular gets hit up for help by basically everybody in the Tri state area. I did try to find a garage to do the work at, but my options were somewhat limited and the main reason I decided to go with PFS is that I heard they were now doing AccessPORT dyno tuning. My biggest issue with doing the install myself is that I would be at the mercy of Jeff's AccessPORT subscription service. I have never been shy about my complaints that the tunes are good but they take an insanely long time. I would also not have any dyno graphs from the result. Putting the car in the hands of a known rotary shop, that I had heard a lot of positive feedback from who could dyno tune with the software I needed seemed like the best solution so I went with it.
07-27-2009, 08:25 PM
#183
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If Jeff is willing to remotely dyno tune the car with Ray working the dyno on this side then I can get this done and take the car out of there. If not then I need to re-evaluate my tuning options.
07-27-2009, 09:01 PM
#186
Yeah, this works out pretty good.
I was gonna be in Maryland (well, the DC area) from the 5th until the 12th anyway, so I'll shoe-horn some quality time on the dyno for this. Should be fun.
EDIT - I am staying with some friends in Columbia for much of that week, so this is all really, really convenient!
I was gonna be in Maryland (well, the DC area) from the 5th until the 12th anyway, so I'll shoe-horn some quality time on the dyno for this. Should be fun.
EDIT - I am staying with some friends in Columbia for much of that week, so this is all really, really convenient!
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 07-27-2009 at 09:06 PM.
07-27-2009, 09:07 PM
#187
Life begins @ 30 psi
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Yeah, this works out pretty good.
I was gonna be in Maryland (well, the DC area) from the 5th until the 12th anyway, so I'll shoe-horn some quality time on the dyno for this. Should be fun.
EDIT - I am staying with some friends in Columbia for much of that week, so this is all really, really convenient!
I was gonna be in Maryland (well, the DC area) from the 5th until the 12th anyway, so I'll shoe-horn some quality time on the dyno for this. Should be fun.
EDIT - I am staying with some friends in Columbia for much of that week, so this is all really, really convenient!
07-28-2009, 06:19 AM
#191
07-28-2009, 09:17 AM
#194
Life begins @ 30 psi
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Well, Ray knows Jeff from when Jeff lived in MD. Ray is also a really nice guy, despite making an incredibly stupid decision to try and figure out Cobb's software on the fly using my car without telling me he didn't know it. I don't expect any problems on that front. To be honest, PFS should be greatful I haven't flipped my lid over this. Peter Farrell lost that business over a turbocharged 8. You would think they would have learned the lesson.
07-28-2009, 09:25 AM
#195
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Learning the AP on a freshly installed turbo charged RX8 that they have never tuned before? YIKES!
At the very least if someone was learning on my car I'd expect the tuning to be free!
Best of luck. Sounds like you have a solution in the works so I hope everything works out. If there is one thing I can say about this industry it would be to not judge someone based on their likability. I know plenty of nice guys who I wouldn't let within 10 feet of my car let alone tuning it!
07-28-2009, 09:59 AM
#196
Well, Ray knows Jeff from when Jeff lived in MD. Ray is also a really nice guy, despite making an incredibly stupid decision to try and figure out Cobb's software on the fly using my car without telling me he didn't know it. I don't expect any problems on that front.
Well, Ryan's '8 was just a link in that chain. It was Ryan's incredible parking skills and the whole John Duff thing that really took them down.
07-28-2009, 10:23 AM
#197
Life begins @ 30 psi
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Alright, just chatted with Ray, he is putting the car in the corner until Jeff gets there.
Jeff, he is going to give you a call later today to chat. We're both fluid around your schedule next week, I'll take off work to come out to Frederick during the week so I can chill with you during the dyno tune. I will bring offerings of food and drink to the dyno gods.
Jeff, he is going to give you a call later today to chat. We're both fluid around your schedule next week, I'll take off work to come out to Frederick during the week so I can chill with you during the dyno tune. I will bring offerings of food and drink to the dyno gods.
