brillo

hows the idle quality for you guys? can you richen up the idle with the P2's on the sub injector map?

looks like you guys have a good solution for those with some good knowledge of tuning. wonder why Greddy didn't think of this (rhetorical question)

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Probably can't do much for idle since it is closed-loop.
I tend to address idle with ignition advance, though I won't mess with it until I have separate leading/trailing maps on with the Ultimate.

MadDog

My idle is perfectly smooth. Seriously, I sometimes wonder if the car is still on. But, this was the case before the fuel mod, too. My Idle AFR is about 14.0-14.2 most of the time.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

My idle tends to sit around 15:1, which will occasionally make it grumble a bit.
I suppose that after I get the P2 severed I should reset the PCM to fix the LTFT which will fix the idle mixture.

MadDog

Okay,
Here is the lated map -*SCALED FOR THE STOCK 390cc P2 INJECTORS, SEVERED FROM THE PCM*- that I have tuned a little leaner in a few locations. Tuning is easy and predictable. When doing the conversion from my 490cc map, I tended to round up, just to be safe. You can see that the flow rates required in the high-boost, high-RPM region exceeds the capacity of the 390cc injectors. But, I doubt that anyone with the GReddy turbo can hit this area of the MAP anyway. I don't think I ever have. Also, please remember that the injectors can vary +/-7% from nominal flow rates and still be within specification, which emphasizes the need to monitor AFR when changing your MAP or going to this fuel setup.

Enjoy.


Oh yeah, I don't care that the jpeg sucks....

QBallz

^ So does that mean your really only safe upto about 5.5psi with stock injectors, before you start running the chance of going lean?

MadDog

Well, you certainly run that risk if you can hold that pressure in that RPM range. The bottom corner of the MAP for the 390cc injectors looks like:

89.5 96.5 100 109.5
91.5 97.5 102.5 110.5
102 109 113 117
105.5 112.5 117 121.5

But the support tool won't display anything over 100% duty cycle. My AFR at the achieveable limits of boost and RPM is about 11-11.5. So, there is a tiny bit of wiggle room, if you can indeed cover this region of the map.

Another option is to add a little fuel using the additional injection map in the lower right corner. That's a good option if you're still running the 390cc P2's. Again, you have to be able to monitor AFR and do map tracing if you want to do this right

MadDog

Moderators: Any way to merge this with the sticky on the same subject? At least the first post would be nice....

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

We should probably re-write the whole thing, anyway. There is so much discussion mixed in that the threads are becoming unruly.

I just had a thought when taking a break a few minutes ago. This may be of minimal value (or it may be plainly obvious, but I hadn't really thought about it until now).

The additional injector map for the E-Manage, in our application, effectively worked upon only the secondary injectors until the P2s came on line.
Problem - the secondaries are mounted in the secondary intake ducts, which are shuttered by the SSV until at least 3250 RPM. This means any fuel added before this point wasn't going anywhere.
Furthermore, the opening point is dependant on what the PCM saw as load which may or may not have been realistic since it couldn't see boost, only air flow.
This would explain the hairy transitions that would happen at mid RPMs.

I know that might be a "duh", but it just crossed my mind and better out than in I always say....

two rotors

Yes but the secondary injectors are not fired by the PCM until the SSV solenoid gets the signal to open.(At least that is the way I understand it).So the e-manage does nothing until the PCM fires the secodaries.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Exactly. Then, when they start firing, the PCM catches the E-Manage out and hits with whatever it is trying to do at that load point, which could be just about anything. That is, IMHO, the cause of a lot of the weirdness in the 3500 to 4700 RPM range with everyone's setup (except mine and MadDog's, of course ).

mikeschaefer

After watching people tune their RX-8s for so long and seeing all that has been done I have decided I want to get in on it. I've seen lots of tuning done with CZ but nobody that has used MM's and MadDog's work with the e-manage on an N/A application. I recall an earlier post in this thread asking if the e-manage would be viable for N/A and if it would be better than or at least more cost effective than the CZ unit. I'm sure there are lots of readers wondering the same thing. We've all seen the gains that were possible on the CZ unit. Let's see what happens when we have more control of the fuel!

I've decided that if MM and MadDog and anybody else knowledgable on the topic think it would be a good idea to try out e-manage tuning on an N/A RX-8 then I will be the guinnea (sp?) pig. I already intended on going Greddy kit and using the "definitive greddy kit fixes." BUT I have to save up enough cash for that first :P. For now I'd love to help on an e-manage + N/A project.

I'll just need some close guidance on this. I'm not an idiot or anything (I swear!). I managed to get a 4 year degree in Computer Science. But of course I haven't much experience tuning cars, other than watching a friend tune his eclipse with an e-manage.

So let me know guys if this would be a good project. From what I've been following I think it would be a great idea, but stop me from ordering if you can think of any problems! I'll also be getting a wideband O2 of course, most likely the LC-1 since it comes recommended (any opinions on a decent guage to hook up to it?). What else should I get? Scanalyser? Let me know!

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Nope. The E-Manage as we have configured and improved it, is only beneficial in this manner for a forced-induction vehicle.
None of the improvements are aimed at reducing the amount of fuel, which is what is what is needed when tuning a N/A RX-8.

KrisD1

From what i have seen it looks like all the 4port(manual or auto) owners have to do is do this change to the e-manage and we can use the greddy turbo kit.Some finetuning will be needed but that's about it or am i missing something?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

The 4-port doesn't have a set of P2 injectors, so it won't work.

KrisD1

Can't we just elliminate those in the e-manage and compensate with the S1 injectors, should'nt be that difficult. Isn't this what REMS did?

MadDog

Not that I know much about the std power engine, but it seems like you could use a similar strategy as we did. Log what your injectors are doing under the PCM, mimic that using the eManage, plus, add the fuel needed to under boost. This is provided that the injectors you currently use have enough capacity. Otherwise, swap them out and compensate for the increased capacity be reducing that part of the duty cycle that the PCM would have been specifiying.

KrisD1

Thanx MadDog, I think this will work, my 4port has the 390cc P1 and 490S1 injectors, as it only revs to 8k rpm, it looks like it will work with the current injectors.
Maby a dumb question but how is the torque? When you drive on the highway in 5 or 6 gear, when you put your foot down does it immedeatly pull or does it has some lag.
Just wondering?

MadDog

You'd better spend a lot of time looking at the duty cycles before you come to any conlcusion abuot spare capacity....

Torque immediate in the highway gears.

KrisD1

which device do you use to tune your car?A canscan ?

MadDog

What would I use that for?


I'm using the eManage support tool to tune the values in my MAP.
I use the LC-1 WB02 to guide my tuning.
I log boost, AFR, duty cycle, and RPM using the e-01.

KrisD1

Sorry about that, didn't know you could see so much info with the profec.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

I don't want to get this topic off its point, but i'll say this...

after the last round of flashes, there is almost no need to even tune below 7,000 rpms anymore. This means you should not have any fuel trim problems as you have no real reason to get close to the 5500-6000 rpm transition point. While more control is always good, it seems uneeded anymore.

Japan8

Hey Jeff... take a look at this... https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...81#post1244481

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

I think Jeff is stuck someplace between NY and AZ in a rental truck

Good Luck on your move.............Can't get worse than this snow