emailists

I actually did mean lower cost of installation, but I've been running a temperature for 5 days now (my GF and I have the flu), so who can tell what I really meant.

guy321

Ah, ya, it was hard to tell. Sorry about you not feeling well. I've been fighting the flu for almost 2 weeks now

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

Aussies are the ones with the big beer cans. Our size wouldn't even get your lips wet. I have no knowledge of the size of your Rum bottles. :D

Maybe he ment recycled beer cans

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

Well I'm not so sure that the Greddy kit is easy to install. I'll go along that it is reasoably priced and complete.

I don't consider 16 hours in a shop with a lift all the tools a pro mechanic and able helper to be an easy install. Although it must have been well documented with proper photos and diagrams. It seems to be well layed out to use the space available and it doesn't move the batterry. Which in case you guys don't know was put there for a reason. It is there because of the large drain of the electric power steering. Try not to move it to far and use heavy wires.

I think I saw someone is trying to loose a few lbs and went for a lightweight battery which he then moved. Bad Idea. Less juice+more distance=less power, longer recovery time.

My supercharger will of course not require exhaust work for one thing. Thus there is no heat problems. I will be moving the throtlebody though. that is a pain but less then the exhaust. In fact with the drive by wire it solves the linkage problem.

My idea of a good street blower insalllation is one you forget is there. It may be fun with the blow off valve for awhile but it means that your always aware it is there and it becomes the main event when your in the car. That includes going out to dinner or a funeral. It becomes another animal entirely. This seemed OK when I was a kid and did nothing but work on my car. Now i want a little more quality and reliability. I want to be able to let my girlfreind run to the store in it. Or even to Vegas and not worry about it.

I'm not knocking that Greddy kit at all, I think it is a realistic installation for a realistic price. They didn't go overboard to try and get a higher bottom line. The kept it ssafe. They are having some teething problems with the electronics but what else is new. It appers they are working it out. I hope I don't have to through that but **** happens. At least they have someone at the other end of the line when you call. I've seen companys that can't be reached when these things happen. They just go into denial.

Keep it simple keep it safe. As I see it my blower isn't doing anything but spinning while you are not asking for power. So it is unobtrusive, open the TB and the air gets dense and the power goes up, instantly. You don't have to wait for things to get going the right speed it is already there. Mother nature takes care of everthing.

And for you guys that keep proding me I'll have you know that we will be buying a car for the installation in a few weeks. We hope our latest aero work works and we can put in. I'm glad that there are other kits working because when a few of you guys get the electronics worked out I can tap the collective brain trust.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

Buying a test mule? Sweet

I'm waiting to see your results. I think this engine is better suited for SC in my opinion. I want to put headers on my car, and a TC won't allow for that mod.

Snoochie

Ahh you're gonna buy my car, awesome!!! Just playin.

BLACKLIST

Hey guys. Wow I just finished the last page of this thread and all I can say is you guys really know your stuff. Mr. Paul if your system is as good as what I think it's going to be, I'm sure I will have no problem spending my hard earned deployment money to buy your SC. Thanx for the great read. This is my favorite place to visit on my down time. You guys freakin' ROCK!!!

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

Blacklist, I gather you are deployed US military, and this was your first post. I want to thank you. If your out there fighting for the rest of us, you deserve a our thanks and a discount.

BLACKLIST

Naah...No need for a discount. I'm just doing my job, as I'm sure alot of other forum members have done or are still doing. Now the one's that have gone before me are the ones who should be thanked and congradulated. As well as the parents of these fine Marines that I have the pleasure of serving with. It's because of these people and the sacrifices that they have made that allow me to do what I do now. So I'd like to thank them. Now as for you Mr. Paul if you really want to thank me hurry and get this thing to market :p . I'm sure it's gonna be one hell of a beast once you are done and I wish you the best and Godspeed.

Semper Fi

bobclevenger

My own tuppence says the faster car will be the one with the better driver. Not kidding. They are so nearly even that other variables will decide the race.

Now theoretically it depends on gearing and such if both drivers drive perfectly (for their own car). If the 240whp car can keep the revs close to the hp peak for the duration of the race then that car will win (assuming both cars are equal weight). However if the ratio spread prevents this from happening the broader hp curve of the 220 whp car will make up that 20 whp deficit easily (more hp "under the curve"). The 220 whp car will probably be easier to drive too.

But then, nobody asked me. :p

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

Where did you get that quote from Bob? I thought that was Hymee's turn. Or did the sneeky guy ask it of both of us? If so maybe I'd better wait until I can compare notes with Hymee. He and I are "mates" and we're not going to let you trick us into an argument.

That is because it's a trick question, there is no one answer that is correct. In theory you could build a car to meet those specs and another to the same numbers and the winner will reverse. You see you didn't give enough infomation on the exact power curves. Then there is the fact that to get the turbo to work in a drag rade is difficult. It requires special attention to detail in order to get it to be spooled at the begining of a shift. If it isn't quick enough and you don't shift fast enough you will fall off the power. You will have to shift without lifting on the throttle.

The tranmission Will have to be perfectly geared or the turbo will not be on pressure cycle. Or at least not in it's efficency band. Most street cars do not have close enough ratios to keep the engine in the band for the turbo. There are exceptions, like the 930, if you shift at redline each time it will fall back into a good torque band. I'm sure there are others but they are all special exotic types. No car originallly designed for the masses does this.

bobclevenger

I think we are on the same page here Richard. You just said it differently than I did (probably better).

I got that quote from my e-mail notification of new posts. I have no idea why it hasn't showed up on the board. I'm not trying to stir up any disagreements between you and your mates (or any other kind of brouhaha, for that matter). I think you and Hymee both have your ***** together, so there!

I'm really going to miss not putting one of your blowers on an 8.
BTW, my 8 is still for sale, complete with the RP Short Shifter PROTOTYPE!

Omicron

Not intended to be a trick question at all. I originally posted this here by accident but meant to post it in Hymee's thread. By the time I'd moved it over there Bob had apparently already responded to it here. D'oh!

However, I do have a clarification and follow on question here that I just posted in Hymee's thread.

patrick_andraste

Why would you sell your RX-8? this has to be the best car I have ever owned! And one of the best I have driven for a daily driver. Maybe it is just personal preference I guess.

Sure it is not fast, but I have a fuelie El-Camino SS if I need to accelerate hard, and if it is top speed, there is the Ducati998 or the TZ250 F2 Race bike, but as a daily driver sports car this thing is beyond my expectations.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

Omicron, I'm going to answer that on my own thread because I need the posts. That Jon joker has blown by me like I was in reverse.

I have really answered it already if you read between the lines. This is what you must do because your question was so narrow. What you really wanted to ask, and what is important here is who will be faster for the avarage owner on the street.

If you look at how particular I was in pointing out how things had to be geared to take advantage of the extra turbo power you can see that it will never be right on in road usage. Say you have the ratios split perfect for drag racing. This means that to be on it you would have had to redline in the prior gear. So if you are not driving around somewhere near redline than you will not be in the power band for that important first instant. You will not have the time to get adjusted in a lot of conditions.

The one that will give the most satasfaction on the street is the lower powered supercharged car. That was the real question now wasn't it?


What makes me feel that was a CRH type question?


BTW Omicron does the program have the extra space for when Jon's views goes past 100,000? Make it go back and start over when it gets there.

Omicron

Good answer RP, but more so I am wondering which will be faster on the street, not "more satisfying." :D Forget about gearing and keeping it in the powerband.. line up two side by side, 1 turbo 1 sc. Equal drivers. Which will win? Honestly not intended to be a vague or tricky question.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

I'll answer you when you fix Jons thread so he's behind me.

bobclevenger

What kind of race? If it's a race for top speed on a straight, level, long road, the TC will win because of the higher hp (unless it's gearing is really bad).

If it's a quarter-mile drag race, it depends on things like how the two cars are geared, even if they are geared the same. One set of gear ratios will favour the TC car and another set of ratios will favour the mechanically-driven SC car. Set the two cars up to favour the TC and the TC will win. Set the two cars up to favour the mechanically-driven SC and the mech.-driven SC will win.

If it's a road race, it gets even more complicated. My friend Dan used to beat Porsche 911's driving up and down the mountain (to and from Crestline, CA) regularly in his Chevy K5 Blazer because he knew the road. I know your question postulated equal drivers, but that's just ONE of many variables in a road race.

Saying "Forget about gearing and keeping it in the powerband.. " is kind of like saying "which is faster, the red car or the blue car --- forget about things like engines and transmissions."

Honestly, your simple question has no simple answer -- well, no simple, correct, answer. If there were a simple answer we wouldn't have races, because everyone would know which car would win every time -- boring. OK, so watching Stone, Woods, and Cook win all the time wasn't really boring, but I hope you get the idea.

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

"Stone, Woods and Cook" You are one old SOB.

Nigandahu

So are you estimating 220rwhp out of the supercharger, or are these just arbitrary numbers.

Rotoman

Omicron , It seems knowone here here wants to answer your question honestly, for whatever reason, either they honestly don't know or don't want to tell you..

I'll tell you, I don't have any reasons not to tell you what my professional race car mechanics say.. I will try to explain it the the best way I can, from what they told me.

First everything being equal like you said, The Turbo would win
1. because the currently available SC does'nt flow enough cfm for the rpm range for the rx8 and even though the SC has more torque bottom end, when was the last time you raced someone and was shifting between 1500-4000rpm's...

2. They also told me that there is a formula to use for figuring out approx. power and times the car will turn..

3. I used to have a 99 corvette and a 69 Transam (rare) and I turned 11.20's and everything was set for shifting that car at 6300 rpm's in 1,2,3, gear and going through the traps at whatever was left usually 6400-6500rpm's..

4. So unless that SC is going to make power in the rpm range of the RX8 is not going to win in the quarter mile or street race... Sorry, unless Hymee or Richard Paul have a SC that will breath in that range , then we have Maybe a different store.. Don't shoot me I was just the messenger on this, But I do feel the same way..

rotarygod

Why would they not use a supercharger deisgned for the RX-8's powerband? That's like using a turbo that isn't designed for the RX-8's powerband.

Rotoman

The Guys I have talked to said the Sc they are currently using is not large enough for the air flow that is needed in the 7500-9000 rpm range for the RX8...

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

Oh my god, Fred the man of few words.
This was a hypothetical case, not specific. So just to make your drag race buddys happy tell them the SC car had a 14-71 on it. Yet it was set up for 220 hp. It has nothing to do with how big the supercharger. Also tell them that we had to put a big block Chevy in the trunk to turn the supercharger. Otherwise we would only get 6hp at the wheels.

Remember(Chime in here RG) pressure is the resistence to flow. Contrary to what some people here say you can take the biggest blower or turbo the world has ever seen and at X pessure the same CFM will be going in. That is what the engine will eat under that much pressure. Remember too that it was eating under pressure before you put the blower on it. It was just that that pressure was what mother nature gave us. It thinks you just drove below sea level. No one told it there was such a thing as supercharging. Since it has no eyes it doesn't know what you did to it.

What bigger capacity compressor can you have then the whole entire worlds worth of atmophere.

ctupton

the pettit twin screw could be a little on the small side... but no one but RP would know if his is too small... since he's the only one making them he knows them better than we do... I'm willing to bet most mechanics haven't ever seen an axial flow sc