all i want to know is at what RPM does full boost kick in. i love the fact that the MM turbo comes on to full boost before 4k rpm. how does the esmeril do?

the reason i ask, is that i will need good throttle response and quick boost when i am at the autocross track.

 

If you're in any type of competition with the RX-8, and you're below 6K rpms, than you are not driving the car properly.

 

with a big turbo and even above 6k rpms, it can still have lag. thats what im worried about.

 

I forget precisely when I reach full boost, but I do know if you're at 6k there is zero issue, this thing spools right up when you're that high. If memory serves me right I think you get full boost around 5k or so, depending on the gear. I'll try to be more specific when the weather clears up and I sort out an issue with the car.

 

maybe chris can chime in on my issue.

 

Depending upon the hotside A/R, it'll be in the 4k-5krpm range. Once it gets goin', hold on to your butt. That's how full T4's are on 13B's. Great stuff.

B

 

First Chris, congrats on an awesome benchmark. Developments like this were just a matter of time, engineering and effort. I've had to listen to notions for a while that this rotary wasn't capable of 400+ whp without serious modifications but we're finding the technology and the means. Excellent work.

I think much of the need here is more with how turbo kits are marketed rather than their capability. I know owners with 500+ whp vehicles that make that power safely but a "reasonable" power level would be something safe to drive daily IMO.

Nobody is going to handicap you guys for this.


I think this is a great opportunity to examine the difference between Esmeril's kit and which leads me to the point of my post. The importance here (from a customer standpoint) is to be able to tell the difference between what the "kit" is capable of and what the car is capable of.

Thanks RE for pointing out that key aspect. The reason why the MM kit is marketed as it is for the fact that MazdaManiac wanted to ensure customer's knew what to expect from the kit out of the box. It's the age old practice of underpromising and overdelivering.

What owners and future buyers of the Esmeril kit should keep in mind is that, unless specified, the kit as it's currently shipped would need modifications and additional parts to reach the 400+whp goal. If the dyno plot was created using the kit as shipped I'd glady stand corrected.

Right, this wasn't a thread showing the best way to run the Esmeril kit on the street, just showing what it can do.

No, the dyno thread is to show what current RX8 turbo kits are being marketed for power wise. Now, Esmeril could choose to market their kit as a 414 whp kit of they so choose. I would argue that it would be a misrepresentation unless the kit came with exactly what was used to produce the results of the dyno.

Again, the MM kit was marketed at 310whp because MazdaManiac knows the kit will make that power with proper tuning on virturally every RX8 that uses it. If the kit makes more power then that's great! The idea is to avoid having customers buy your kit and then spamming you with upset emails and phone calls cause they didn't make 400whp like you said the kit would make.


The 3071R turbo was chosen for various reasons aside from the fact that you really can't jam anything larger into the space by the manifold than that size. At the time of the kits creation 400whp was the assumed limit of the car on pump gas as well as the transmission/drivetrain. Simply put, the amount of air needed to make that power was calculted and then the 3071 was chosen cause it flows that needed air at it's most efficient point.

The Esmerial turbo has the ability to flow more air but the sacrifice is the need for more time to build boost. It just goes to show you that it's critical to size a turbo for the application you intend. It's all a compromise.

Sorry for the long post!

Chris I'm in no way attempting to poke you guys. I think there's a great opportunity to contrast how products like this are marketed and you guys provided a great example of one way it's done. I hope that Esmeril customers are able to easily duplicate your results.

 

^ I just found out Chris is daily driving that 414WHP tune. I assume once he can personally vouch for it's reliability, he may start marketing as such. And I'm pretty sure the modifications he has is the kit as shipped and the ignition upgrade. Crazy stuff.

 

I agree with the sizing the turbo with the desired results. Thats why the TQ graff is what I like to see because I'm not looking for those hudge revs to make power. If this kit makes decent power Hp and Tq at a reasonable rev thats what matters, weather or not its at full boost doesn't matter to me. Lets see when all this happens.

 

So where are some photos and videos of this car?

 

Hey Chris , can you post up videos of the dyno session and maybe some street videos? I want to see

 

I just don't know why this thread doesn't get the hits that the RP Supercharger that never came out does! Come on guys no love here, I mean I'm not sold yet on anything but just to have the choice to have an Rx8 over 400hp and 300TQ is money! I'm still holding out to see what MM/BHR can do but this kit is definatly on my list. My only suggestion would be just to put the ignition upgrade into the kit and it will be a true 400HP 300TQ(my big dream) out of the box! What about the fuel pump? Mazsport always says it NEEDS to be upgraded, chris how do you feel about that?

 

Thanks for the props!

Our kit brings a complete fuel upgrade including a new fuel pump and injectors. The included combination should be good to make it to 400whp safely. Our website has a general list of what's included as well as a few pics of the components.

Chris

 

nice chris raitru bro ta cabron el turbo. i been researching and lookin at the dynos and this really caught my eye 414whp more then 300tq is awsome for rx8 owners on top of that they're about to market apex seals!!! my thought is if those apex seals are the real deal then we could posibily make more then 414whp and more TQ!!!!! lol so como yo dije nice job chris ill be lookin at your kit

 

ok chris lets hear about these apex's!

 

Kickass numbers!

Out of curiosity, if it's the apex seals that are prone to problems with detonation. How do you even approach the "first" tune. Since neither too rich or too lean is safe. One ping and you're gone? (forgive me for asking, I'm curious about all theory on these engines)

 

^^Go with a safe map and tune rich and go slowly from there?

 

The reason that I was asking is that it was implied that rich isn't always safe. But I assume that within reason it probably is, with what you call a safe tune.

 

still need to see a map to see when boost kicks in.

 

I'm sure the math gurus on this website could give some equations for approximate initial tune, if you asked nicely.

 

Hey Chris, Ever sence I told you that your "included injectors" failed and I lost a motor, you haven't returned any of my many phone calls. What's up. Please dont give me any song and dance. Just call me. If you can't afford the call then tell me when I should call you.

 

He's hard to reach by phone usually. I've tried before, but all my communications have been handled through PM.

 

i'm mainly trying to talk with Jason from mazdaparts. I know he works hand in hand with Chris.

 

Also, I don't think either of them do business on the weekend, so you'll probably have to wait till Monday

 

wow a long read but I'm hopefull. Good Job.