3 rotor renesis.
06-26-2020, 09:00 PM
#76
I can’t remember exact threads but you are welcome to do some research on here and other sites. The reliability issue has to do with both this 3 rotor Renesis architecture, and the inherent reliability issues the Renesis has even stock. This is a huge problem as there is a lot you’ll find you have to figure out. The main reason why it would be more unreliable is that the stock 2 rotor is just that, stock. This car was designed around the Renesis engine. Mazda likely poured millions developing the parts that surround the Renesis to make the engine work as well as it could. With a 3 rotor using Renesis irons and housings, you are essentially making everything that currently surrounds the stock engine useless. Without a kit that can support this new engine, which was never designed to operate as a 3 rotor, you will need to design new parts and fabricate them to make this new engine work.
This is why lots of money and man hours were likely spent by people trying to get their designs to work but ultimately didn’t succeed. If it did, you would see companies producing Renesis 3 rotor conversion kits as the idea of it is appealing. However, people don’t like to brag about their failures which is why there is not a lot out there about 3 rotor Renesis engines. Even the Furai that was discussed was essentially a 20b engine. You are welcome to try but don’t say we never warned you.
This is why lots of money and man hours were likely spent by people trying to get their designs to work but ultimately didn’t succeed. If it did, you would see companies producing Renesis 3 rotor conversion kits as the idea of it is appealing. However, people don’t like to brag about their failures which is why there is not a lot out there about 3 rotor Renesis engines. Even the Furai that was discussed was essentially a 20b engine. You are welcome to try but don’t say we never warned you.
the compression losses are due to either the engine seals being worn out, overheated or the engines being "gummed" up.
Not sure what reliability issues i would have by adding an extra rotor
06-26-2020, 09:15 PM
#77
Well, while that's sound practice, it will (at an optimistic guess) cause the loss of around 15% peak power /rotor . You might get some of that back with intake porting improvements, if you are lucky. Lets say you do get lucky and make, per rotor, the same as a good 4 port gets.
That would put you around 85x3 = 250whp with an added 30-40kg weight.
Lower down the rev range you can expect decent torque because the loss in flow area wont impact so much.
However:
Based on that ...I'd be keen to take you on in a drag race with my 220whp Renesis two rotor . I think it would be pretty close.
That would put you around 85x3 = 250whp with an added 30-40kg weight.
Lower down the rev range you can expect decent torque because the loss in flow area wont impact so much.
However:
Based on that ...I'd be keen to take you on in a drag race with my 220whp Renesis two rotor . I think it would be pretty close.
Last edited by Brettus; 06-26-2020 at 09:56 PM.
06-26-2020, 10:31 PM
#78
Well, while that's sound practice, it will (at an optimistic guess) cause the loss of around 15% peak power /rotor . You might get some of that back with intake porting improvements, if you are lucky. Lets say you do get lucky and make, per rotor, the same as a good 4 port gets.
That would put you around 85x3 = 250whp with an added 30-40kg weight.
Lower down the rev range you can expect decent torque because the loss in flow area wont impact so much.
However:
Based on that ...I'd be keen to take you on in a drag race with my 220whp Renesis two rotor . I think it would be pretty close.
That would put you around 85x3 = 250whp with an added 30-40kg weight.
Lower down the rev range you can expect decent torque because the loss in flow area wont impact so much.
However:
Based on that ...I'd be keen to take you on in a drag race with my 220whp Renesis two rotor . I think it would be pretty close.
Strange how no one else seems to think like us tho.
Ive never been much into drag racing.
06-26-2020, 10:49 PM
#79
Smoking turbo yay
Sure, you can slap a bigger radiator on, but if you look at how the coolant flows in a rotary engine, you will see why that rear housing and rotor tend to wear out faster. The coolant loops around the rear rotor before it goes back. This is only compounded on a 3-rotor engine. Given how small rotary engines are and you have 2 times the combustion events happening compared to a 4-stroke piston engine, I'd be curious to see how long the rear rotor would last.
No comment on this one. I don't even.
Well, while that's sound practice, it will (at an optimistic guess) cause the loss of around 15% peak power /rotor . You might get some of that back with intake porting improvements, if you are lucky. Lets say you do get lucky and make, per rotor, the same as a good 4 port gets.
That would put you around 85x3 = 250whp with an added 30-40kg weight.
Lower down the rev range you can expect decent torque because the loss in flow area wont impact so much.
However:
Based on that ...I'd be keen to take you on in a drag race with my 220whp Renesis two rotor . I think it would be pretty close.
That would put you around 85x3 = 250whp with an added 30-40kg weight.
Lower down the rev range you can expect decent torque because the loss in flow area wont impact so much.
However:
Based on that ...I'd be keen to take you on in a drag race with my 220whp Renesis two rotor . I think it would be pretty close.
Because what's horsepower per dollar, anyway?
06-26-2020, 11:15 PM
#80
I just don't see that engine being a 'good' engine.
If you are going to go ahead with it though ...you should come down (to Hamilton) for a chat . I've done a lot of work on making those Siamese sleeves flow as much as possible on my turbo 8 . I'm talking things that I know work ...not theory.
Last edited by Brettus; 06-26-2020 at 11:19 PM.
06-27-2020, 03:01 AM
#81
One thing i find amusing is people spend 10-15k on a paint job and no one really blinks an eye lid.
Does that 10-15k make the car go any faster?
But when someone like me comes on here and asks about building a 3 rotor everyone goes on about it being a waste of money.
Whos business is it how much something costs or how long it takes.
It has nothing to do with what im wanting to achieve.
Not everything is about power. If i wanted a big power NA rotary i would buy a 4 rotor pp. Easy.
To me its about the sound of the engine and the innovation behind it.
Does that 10-15k make the car go any faster?
But when someone like me comes on here and asks about building a 3 rotor everyone goes on about it being a waste of money.
Whos business is it how much something costs or how long it takes.
It has nothing to do with what im wanting to achieve.
Not everything is about power. If i wanted a big power NA rotary i would buy a 4 rotor pp. Easy.
To me its about the sound of the engine and the innovation behind it.
06-27-2020, 10:16 AM
#82
Registered
One thing i find amusing is people spend 10-15k on a paint job and no one really blinks an eye lid.
Does that 10-15k make the car go any faster?
But when someone like me comes on here and asks about building a 3 rotor everyone goes on about it being a waste of money.
Whos business is it how much something costs or how long it takes.
It has nothing to do with what im wanting to achieve.
Not everything is about power. If i wanted a big power NA rotary i would buy a 4 rotor pp. Easy.
To me its about the sound of the engine and the innovation behind it.
Does that 10-15k make the car go any faster?
But when someone like me comes on here and asks about building a 3 rotor everyone goes on about it being a waste of money.
Whos business is it how much something costs or how long it takes.
It has nothing to do with what im wanting to achieve.
Not everything is about power. If i wanted a big power NA rotary i would buy a 4 rotor pp. Easy.
To me its about the sound of the engine and the innovation behind it.
Last edited by CaymanRotary; 06-27-2020 at 10:24 AM.
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BigCajun (06-27-2020)
06-27-2020, 11:22 AM
#83
You gonna eat that?
iTrader: (1)
you go on and on about the ease of this build but really you haven’t presented any ideas on how exactly you plan to get this engine to work. The reason we warning you about attempting this is because you can get better results with much less effort using a factory engine. Innovation for the sake of doing something worse is not useful to anyone. A 15k paint job is worth it if it’s a rare collector car as it will increase the value of the car more than the cost of the paint job. This proposed build will not be “easy”, this will be a difficult road and for what? After all the information given to you on this thread from people who know infinitely more than you about renesis engines, there really isn’t much more to say. It’s your money and your time, so if you still feel it’s worth the trouble then go for it. Hell, if you actually start a build thread and get started, people here might help you figure out any problems you run into. Also, this will be my last post in this thread. Really feel like this is a troll at this point.
06-27-2020, 12:43 PM
#84
Smoking turbo yay
You go on and on about the ease of this build but really you haven’t presented any ideas on how exactly you plan to get this engine to work. The reason we warning you about attempting this is because you can get better results with much less effort using a factory engine. Innovation for the sake of doing something worse is not useful to anyone. A 15k paint job is worth it if it’s a rare collector car as it will increase the value of the car more than the cost of the paint job. This proposed build will not be “easy”, this will be a difficult road and for what? After all the information given to you on this thread from people who know infinitely more than you about Renesis engines, there really isn’t much more to say. It’s your money and your time, so if you still feel it’s worth the trouble then go for it. Hell, if you actually start a build thread and get started, people here might help you figure out any problems you run into. Also, this will be my last post in this thread. Really feel like this is a troll at this point.
And yep, I am gonna grab popcorns now. Until further notice, I am treating OP as a troll as well.
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Loki (06-27-2020)
06-27-2020, 03:45 PM
#86
Thanks for all your comments and suggestions.
i am looking forward to teaching quite a few of you about the renesis engine as it seems alot are lacking basic knowledge.
will start a new thread once i start my build.
im going to be aiming for 280 n/a hp out of the worlds first streer driven 3 rotor renesis rx8.
stay tunned..
i am looking forward to teaching quite a few of you about the renesis engine as it seems alot are lacking basic knowledge.
will start a new thread once i start my build.
im going to be aiming for 280 n/a hp out of the worlds first streer driven 3 rotor renesis rx8.
stay tunned..
06-27-2020, 04:07 PM
#87
you mean 280 whp right?
because 6-port Renesis 2-rotor engines have registered that at the flywheel. We have dynos of hand blueprinted stock engine dynos on here in the 265 - 270 fwhp range. A few in the 230 rwhp range too.
Which 330+ rwhp out of a non-Renesis 20B is pretty standard. Even if it’s 280 whp you’ll only prove what was said from the beginning. Which again has already been done multiple times. Assuming you actually deliver, because talk is cheap and requires no effort; the complete opposite of what you’re bragging about accomplishing in advance of doing so. Well, let’s all look forward to seeing how many of those chicks hatch then.
Since you’re so confident about it, why not stand tall and start by telling us who you really are.
.
because 6-port Renesis 2-rotor engines have registered that at the flywheel. We have dynos of hand blueprinted stock engine dynos on here in the 265 - 270 fwhp range. A few in the 230 rwhp range too.
Which 330+ rwhp out of a non-Renesis 20B is pretty standard. Even if it’s 280 whp you’ll only prove what was said from the beginning. Which again has already been done multiple times. Assuming you actually deliver, because talk is cheap and requires no effort; the complete opposite of what you’re bragging about accomplishing in advance of doing so. Well, let’s all look forward to seeing how many of those chicks hatch then.
Since you’re so confident about it, why not stand tall and start by telling us who you really are.
.
06-27-2020, 07:31 PM
#90
06-28-2020, 02:49 AM
#92
Not to mention a paint job is a well-travelled road that a professional wouldn't have trouble with so you have a set budget, while for a build like this, the budget can easily be underestimated and can turn out to be a waste of effort.
And yep, I am gonna grab popcorns now. Until further notice, I am treating OP as a troll as well.
And yep, I am gonna grab popcorns now. Until further notice, I am treating OP as a troll as well.
same thing applies to my senario. I dont care if the car isnt faster.
Its more for the cool sound and inovation.
However it will just so happen to go faster aswell
06-28-2020, 02:53 AM
#93
Explain how you are going to do that... that's the issue. what are you using for a center plate? The 3 rotor shafts are designed to fit a much different sized housing that a stock width Renesis center plate.... the center plate if you use 2 Renesis plates will be too narrow for the shaft. And the center rotor will have about 1/2 the flow of the other 2 rotors as they share 2 twin ports
shaft is the easy part. Custom made short crank 2 piece e shaft.
Once i get into the build i will post pictures of flow results on inner and outer exhaust ports etc.
06-28-2020, 02:59 AM
#94
my apologies.
I had contemplated going pp but thats not how mazda would of built a 3 rotor renesis.
06-28-2020, 03:16 AM
#95
you mean 280 whp right?
because 6-port Renesis 2-rotor engines have registered that at the flywheel. We have dynos of hand blueprinted stock engine dynos on here in the 265 - 270 fwhp range. A few in the 230 rwhp range too.
Which 330+ rwhp out of a non-Renesis 20B is pretty standard. Even if it’s 280 whp you’ll only prove what was said from the beginning. Which again has already been done multiple times. Assuming you actually deliver, because talk is cheap and requires no effort; the complete opposite of what you’re bragging about accomplishing in advance of doing so. Well, let’s all look forward to seeing how many of those chicks hatch then.
Since you’re so confident about it, why not stand tall and start by telling us who you really are.
.
because 6-port Renesis 2-rotor engines have registered that at the flywheel. We have dynos of hand blueprinted stock engine dynos on here in the 265 - 270 fwhp range. A few in the 230 rwhp range too.
Which 330+ rwhp out of a non-Renesis 20B is pretty standard. Even if it’s 280 whp you’ll only prove what was said from the beginning. Which again has already been done multiple times. Assuming you actually deliver, because talk is cheap and requires no effort; the complete opposite of what you’re bragging about accomplishing in advance of doing so. Well, let’s all look forward to seeing how many of those chicks hatch then.
Since you’re so confident about it, why not stand tall and start by telling us who you really are.
.
Sorry i didn't explain myself properly again.
I expect to see at least 280hp at the flywheel. Im unsure what that equates to at the wheels.
im also expecting to see a big improvement in torque.
Not sure what you mean by telling you who i really am, im just some guy from NZ who likes to tinker with cars.
06-28-2020, 03:18 AM
#96
06-28-2020, 02:53 PM
#98
Yet if someone spends 15k on a paint job what performance gains does that do ? Nothing really.
06-28-2020, 02:59 PM
#99
but i do feel after reading lots of comments that most people on here lack some basic knowledge of this engine as im continually having to explain myself over and over.