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OP: there are several members here with extensive knowledge of the Renesis trying to explain why it won't work and you seem convinced it will though you have not presented much in the form of research, data, or experience.
Guys, no thread crapping. I will leave this thread open (for now) should the OP have some progress on his build or want to ask technical questions.
That said OP, I highly suggest you take some time to truly consider and research this project as it is not as easy as you believe it to be. Much to learn you have.
Good luck, keep us posted
Thank you.
I am very serious about this build and have done my research. Its just a shame that there are so many close minded people on here.
You would think people would be more encouraging rather than just slam what potentially could be a breakthrough in a new engine design.
As Team has emphasized, a car is more than an engine. Even the engine part, you are oversimplifing. How do you plan on controlling that engine? How do you plan on keeping the engine cool enough? How do you plan to not have the transmission grenade on you?
Unfortunately there isn't much more to squeeze out of Renesis in NA form. Turbocharging is the way to get more power, and it improves the low-end torque which NA rotaries desperately need.
Yeah, a new housing, rotor and plate are gonna be more than 15 kg...
Sometime even an inch or two make all the difference.
a new housing, rotor and plate is free. Renesis engines are plentifull where i live.
While it is probably equally difficult and not time/money/aggravation worthy, I have thought a 4 rotor Renesis makes more sense than a 3 rotor, at least initially, The port design and intake system seem to make it more sensible to have even numbers of rotors for any Renesis build. That said, I will not be volunteering.
actually a 4 rotor renesis would be cool also. But for now i will just build a 3 rotor version.
Technically between 180hp-210hp depending on the automatic and 238hp for the 6port manual. But this is on a factory spec new engine and at the crank, not the wheels. 6 speed manual will only do 200-210 stock on a dyno. The 3 rotor Renny won’t really be worth the effort to build for previous reasons. But also, the extra weight and space it takes in the engine bay will cause more problems than benefits. Why is it important to try to build such a thing when other options are far more viable and cost effective?
Extra space and weight is irrelevant. I will remove the electric steering rack and fit an FD rx7 rack. I will fit a bump steer kit. All off the shelve items.
where im from NZ it is far cheaper to build a 3 rotor renesis than a 20b.
i allready have a 20b powered car and a 13b turbo.
its about innovation and doing things different.
The concept of discussing this is fine... nut or is becoming a behavior problem
please leave the personal attacks and comments out of the thread or it will be closed.
To the OP... just because you dont like the replies doesn't change the fact this is infinitely more complicated than you think
Its not that i dont like the replies. I love them, im just trying to educate people onto keeping an open mind about things.
its easy to say im wasting money, its not worth the effort it wont work blah blah blah. But these are only opinions.
i like facts. Its my money and time so whats the problem.
come on people you should be excited.
im from NZ. We are world leaders in multi rotor engines.
okie dokie OP you can totally slap together a 20b msp like it's legos. But if the following photos don't help you understand why everyone is telling you that you're gonna have a bad time, you may want to brush up and study intake/exhaust port importance and fluid dynamics.
Like stated multiple times before the middle rotor will be significantly choked out, down on power, and a huge weak point.
Its not that i dont like the replies. I love them, im just trying to educate people onto keeping an open mind about things.
its easy to say im wasting money, its not worth the effort it wont work blah blah blah. But these are only opinions.
i like facts. Its my money and time so whats the problem.
come on people you should be excited.
im from NZ. We are world leaders in multi rotor engines.
We'd be more excited if you actually started your build! Talk is cheap; building this car and proving us all wrong would make you a forum legend. Look forward to your progress. Keep us updated.
If you're so convinced this is a good idea, why did you even ask about it? I only see one mind closed to feedback in this thread. Find out the expensive way and you can educate everyone then.
You seem to think that opinions stated here aren't worth much, but you may want to look up these members' post history. Brettus and Team have extensive threads on exhaust work and patent-pending Renesis improvements based on first-hand build experience to ground the opinions you so easily discount.
Extra space and weight is irrelevant. I will remove the electric steering rack and fit an FD rx7 rack. I will fit a bump steer kit. All off the shelve items.
where im from NZ it is far cheaper to build a 3 rotor renesis than a 20b.
i allready have a 20b powered car and a 13b turbo.
its about innovation and doing things different.
If you are fitting RX7 parts you may as well fit the RX7 engine! You'd have a much easier time fitting a factory engine than a Frankenstein 3 rotor with parts you'll need to fabricate from scratch. The porting on the RX7 is also more conducive to make the extra power you want with far less effort, time and expense. Plus it braps! Not trying to trash your idea, but as mentioned before, this has already been tried and no one has been really successful despite pouring dumptrucks full of money and thousands of man hours into the endeavour. Sometimes better to learn from others than to try it yourself and be stuck on the same problems they had only you will have less money and time to solve said problems. Maybe I'm in the minority that would rather drive my cars than work on them...
Last edited by CaymanRotary; 06-26-2020 at 08:47 AM.
a new housing, rotor and plate is free. Renesis engines are plentifull where i live.
Uh huh, I hope new ECU, fuel injection system, cooling, etc. are also free to you. Labour as well. That's the only way this makes financial sense.
And again, you have not answered how you are going to control the engine, the cooling which we asked about. Don't expect anyone to take you seriously unless these questions are answered.
Originally Posted by SmallPP
Extra space and weight is irrelevant. I will remove the electric steering rack and fit an FD rx7 rack. I will fit a bump steer kit. All off the shelve items.
where im from NZ it is far cheaper to build a 3 rotor renesis than a 20b.
i allready have a 20b powered car and a 13b turbo.
its about innovation and doing things different.
You can go on and on about "uNiQuEnEsS" but at the end of the day it's a terrible idea. The facts are there. Again if you have to money to burn go right ahead.
Last edited by UnknownJinX; 06-26-2020 at 09:20 AM.
okie dokie OP you can totally slap together a 20b msp like it's legos. But if the following photos don't help you understand why everyone is telling you that you're gonna have a bad time, you may want to brush up and study intake/exhaust port importance and fluid dynamics.
Like stated multiple times before the middle rotor will be significantly choked out, down on power, and a huge weak point.
Good to post pictures as point of reference. Thanks.
I am using 4port end plates and 6 port center plates.
the intake ports will be ported to match each other. They are almost identical on the primary's but slighty larger on the secondarys. Have many plates and looked into this. Dont see a problem with intake side.
exhaust ports are exactly the same size on all the irons. They may be bigger where the headers bolt up, but on the inside surface of the plates they are the same. Your exhaust is only as big as the weekest link. If that makes sense.
i can also slightly open up the exhaust ports on the center plates but dont see the point. There are all exactly the same size from factory.
Uh huh, I hope new ECU, fuel injection system, cooling, etc. are also free to you. Labour as well. That's the only way this makes financial sense.
And again, you have not answered how you are going to control the engine, the cooling which we asked about. Don't expect anyone to take you seriously unless these questions are answered.
You can go on and on about "uNiQuEnEsS" but at the end of the day it's a terrible idea. The facts are there. Again if you have to money to burn go right ahead.
Regardless of what engine i put in there other than a stock standard 2 rotor renesis i will need to change the ECU. I am looking at fitting a Link ecu with the link dash.
i can wire the ecu and do most of the labour myself.
As for the cooling i will probly fit a skyline radiator as i have done in my LS powered rx8 drift car.
If you are fitting RX7 parts you may as well fit the RX7 engine! You'd have a much easier time fitting a factory engine than a Frankenstein 3 rotor with parts you'll need to fabricate from scratch. The porting on the RX7 is also more conducive to make the extra power you want with far less effort, time and expense. Plus it braps! Not trying to trash your idea, but as mentioned before, this has already been tried and no one has been really successful despite pouring dumptrucks full of money and thousands of man hours into the endeavour. Sometimes better to learn from others than to try it yourself and be stuck on the same problems they had only you will have less money and time to solve said problems. Maybe I'm in the minority that would rather drive my cars than work on them...
Thanks for your comments. I have no interest in doing a 13b swap into a car that already has a 13b. Sure it will go well with a 13rew but that swap wont get me out of bed in the morning.
Fabrication of certain parts to build a 3 rotor renesis is basic stuff. Headers, intake and sump. Nothing some tig welding cant sort out.
You say this has been tried befor? Who, were, what ? Where did you get your information from? Who has spent dumptrucks of money? Thats alot of money by the way. Who do you know that did this? Please elaborate?
If you're so convinced this is a good idea, why did you even ask about it? I only see one mind closed to feedback in this thread. Find out the expensive way and you can educate everyone then.
You seem to think that opinions stated here aren't worth much, but you may want to look up these members' post history. Brettus and Team have extensive threads on exhaust work and patent-pending Renesis improvements based on first-hand build experience to ground the opinions you so easily discount.
Thanks for your reply.
i asked to see if others have built a 3rotot or gone down the path of building one. Seems no one has.
what do you mean by find out the expensive way? Do you have information on building a 3 rotor renesis? What is your idea of expensive?
I have noticed alot of people think they know what they are talking about but simply dont. Im trying to educate people on the Renesis engine.
i like talking in facts, not opinions. I like hard evidence. Also if someone is going to say something i like them to tell me there source of information.
If you are determined to do it after ignoring all the info you've had then good on you ! Kinda reminds me of some of my projects.
Now stop talking and do something .....
well ok then, please post up your results and costs as hard proof when you get them, because right now what do you have other than an esoteric idea, no real Renesis engine experience, and not even a basic understanding of the design and dynamics of it based on every reply you’ve made so far. There are some people mouthing off that aren’t any more enlightened than yourself, but you still don’t have a clue yourself to discount everyone. Whether you believe me or not is irrelevant to me. If I’m wrong prove it, I’ll be the first to admit I was wrong.
but then expecting everyone else to meet a standard you can’t even get within 10 miles of yourself is nothing unusual these days.
exhaust ports are exactly the same size on all the irons. They may be bigger where the headers bolt up, but on the inside surface of the plates they are the same. .
DING DING DING !!!!
This is where your understanding is lacking . Do you have a center renesis iron handy ? If so ....have a look at the port sleeve for it vs the port sleeve for the outer iron ! If you can't see the issue after doing that ...no-one can help you .
I'm going to say something and I hope the mods see it as constructive criticism and not trolling or insulting since I've been on the sh!tlist lately.
I was only half kidding when I posted Kickerfox's thread.
He was one who was trying to convince everyone here how mechanically savvy he was.
He had all the answers no matter how many members discounted his attempts.
He spent 4 years and hundreds of posts talking, posting pics and beaucoup stoopid graphs, wasting everyone's time with little to show for it until he finally gave some BS excuse to move on.
I suggest you read that thread to try to understand the response you're getting here.
It's like Team said, it's a platform that ceased production years ago, and to think you suddenly have a breakthrough is highly suspect.
I suggest since you are so confident in your abilities that you should quit challenging anyone who doubts you and let your build do the talking.
Otherwise you're just like the many here who talked up their builds only to meekly fade away.
Start your build, and if by some chance you should encounter difficulty, the people here will be far more inclined to offer any assistance they can than if you alienate everyone before you start.
If you can prove what you say is true, I'll be the first to congratulate you and you will have plenty of folks eating crow.
Thanks for your comments. I have no interest in doing a 13b swap into a car that already has a 13b. Sure it will go well with a 13rew but that swap wont get me out of bed in the morning.
Fabrication of certain parts to build a 3 rotor renesis is basic stuff. Headers, intake and sump. Nothing some tig welding cant sort out.
You say this has been tried befor? Who, were, what ? Where did you get your information from? Who has spent dumptrucks of money? Thats alot of money by the way. Who do you know that did this? Please elaborate?
Dont know anyone personally who would attempt such a build but it’s been discussed and people have tried to build it. The reason you don’t see much online is because no one has successfully figured out the porting issue. This engine would at best make marginal gains over the stock 6 port. At the cost of extra weight, space, gas consumption, practicality and reliability. If you are dead set on a NA 3 rotor, you want to go with a 20b engine as it does work well in the RX8 chassis.
DING DING DING !!!!
This is where your understanding is lacking . Do you have a center renesis iron handy ? If so ....have a look at the port sleeve for it vs the port sleeve for the outer iron ! If you can't see the issue after doing that ...no-one can help you .
great observation but still not a problem. I probably didn't explain myself properly in earlier posts.
i will be port matching all exhaust ports to flow the same as each other.
Dont know anyone personally who would attempt such a build but it’s been discussed and people have tried to build it. The reason you don’t see much online is because no one has successfully figured out the porting issue. This engine would at best make marginal gains over the stock 6 port. At the cost of extra weight, space, gas consumption, practicality and reliability. If you are dead set on a NA 3 rotor, you want to go with a 20b engine as it does work well in the RX8 chassis.
Please explain the reliability issues i may have? The engine should last as long as a properly maintained 2 rotor renesis.
Can you tell me who these people are who tried to build it? Would like to chat with them.
Please explain the reliability issues i may have? The engine should last as long as a properly maintained 2 rotor renesis.
Can you tell me who these people are who tried to build it? Would like to chat with them.
Thank you.
I can’t remember exact threads but you are welcome to do some research on here and other sites. The reliability issue has to do with both this 3 rotor Renesis architecture, and the inherent reliability issues the Renesis has even stock. This is a huge problem as there is a lot you’ll find you have to figure out. The main reason why it would be more unreliable is that the stock 2 rotor is just that, stock. This car was designed around the Renesis engine. Mazda likely poured millions developing the parts that surround the Renesis to make the engine work as well as it could. With a 3 rotor using Renesis irons and housings, you are essentially making everything that currently surrounds the stock engine useless. Without a kit that can support this new engine, which was never designed to operate as a 3 rotor, you will need to design new parts and fabricate them to make this new engine work.
This is why lots of money and man hours were likely spent by people trying to get their designs to work but ultimately didn’t succeed. If it did, you would see companies producing Renesis 3 rotor conversion kits as the idea of it is appealing. However, people don’t like to brag about their failures which is why there is not a lot out there about 3 rotor Renesis engines. Even the Furai that was discussed was essentially a 20b engine. You are welcome to try but don’t say we never warned you.
great observation but still not a problem. I probably didn't explain myself properly in earlier posts.
i will be port matching all exhaust ports to flow the same as each other.
So you will be partially blocking off the outer exhaust port sleeves so they flow same as the middle ports ?
06-26-2020, 01:53 AM
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