outinnowhere3193

iTrader: (2)

Tuning is a must...but I don't know about you...but I've never drop a car for a decent amount of time that didn't have a glitch in it. For the rotary at high boost...all it takes is a glitch... One small miss read. You know as metal fly's shavings that collect around the crank sensor..that sensor can read wrong and out of no where throw a spark. Guess what that engine is gone on a 8.

For my motor..I was boosting 14 psi and everything was fine...till my exhaust manifold cracked...and do the leak my profec boost controller glitched and it didn't hold boost right.

I took off and it was fine then all of a sudden a huge jerk of power and then fall on it's face. I let off...and the engine dies...had no clue what happened...and the profec showed a max boost of 18..when it was set to die at 14...and my interceptor was set to kill fuel at 15.

But yet...my car that was running great and had zero problems in a matter of a few seconds was dead

swoope

iTrader: (5)

i guess the point is not a lot of sfr racing turbos out running around..

good luck with your install.

beers

ctlums

iTrader: (1)

I am torn right now on what to do. I agree I would be happy at 300whp with the 8 but once again, I must say, I need a little well placed extremism in my life. I will be giving my guy at deep stage of killeen a call to see what he can do about compression, he is very familiar with rotary eng's. He has an FD in the back of his shop that would make you drool. Anyhow, he is very professional and doesnt waste your time or his own, if anyone can do it right, I am certain its him.

Now assuming I can get my compression down, I upgrade all seals (anyone tell me anything from experience about esmeril's apex seals?), turbo, sway bars, clutch, I should be where I want to be, and should be able to confidently push a second atmosphere worth of boost, without blowing my eng.

ctlums

iTrader: (1)

I am not sure I am interested but how much $/hard would it be to swap in a 20b. Without turbo i read it was in 300 bhp range. I am curious how much of a pain it would be. My issue is that it is now 20b with an rx8 wrapped around it...I love the idea of getting a lot from the 1.3 ren

bse50

more than 20k

Anyway, since the idea of this thread is to discuss this subject around a "virtual" table and help you determining a build plan i think that you should really consider to downsize your goals and focus on a reliable build with the broadest power curve.
Top or low mount turbo? MAF or MAP based? What internal engine mods would you like?

The best bet would be to either contact Mazmart or Charle R. Hill (search for Kane's build, that engine is insane!) and have an engine built from scratch with all the reliability mods included.
With this in mind my choice would be a low mount, maf based turbo setup. The turbo could either be a modified gt3071 or a 3076 (hard to fit down there though).

Then think about the suspensions and wheels... even if you like how your car handles you will need to put that power to the ground somehow

outinnowhere3193

iTrader: (2)

You can get the compression down without much problem. What I'd suggest you do is go with the lower compression and use the seals your guy says to use. If he has a FD you'd drool over and he does that kind of work...trust me he'll know that seal is best for you.

When it comes to seals you have to look at 2 things.

One is this seal going to break easily and destroy my engine when it goes

or

two is this seal so strong that it's going to wear out my housings.

You want a seal that will hold up to some detonation but yet be soft enough to not wear out your housing and side irons. But all and all the more additive you add to the gas the better it will protect the housings and irons.

ctlums

iTrader: (1)

First- I am liking the Idea of having another eng to build, it allows me to drive the car while I am preparing its heart transplant. I think it is the best route, I dont want to solely base my project on a turbo even though it is pretty much the only way I will see substantial gain. Furthermore, if my transplant gets destroyed I will have back up eng. Perhaps I should wet my whistle a bit and be conservative, yet get into 300's with turbo now, and begin work on another setup.

To be honest I was very pleased with the rx8 stock until a couple of freeway races happened (irresponsible I know, I am not here for an ethics or moral debate). I first encountered and Evo MR...I felt as though I could have pushed the car faster... not a good lineup but it left me feeling like I needed more. Next on the freeway leaving houston a new camaro and I went head to head, I know this is playing out of my league however the traffic was preventing him from using a lot of the power so it was more of weaving around, and yet he had me severely outgunned. As he pulled away, a crown vic with a 4.6 pulled up aside me, rolling start from about 50 I was barely able to keep in front of him...this was the last one, I realized I could not be happy with stock.

So my conclusion throughout all of this even though I want to be extreme, is that there are many problems that this will bring me being that this is a DD. So Lets get conservative then. I should have no compression issues at lower boost pressure, I most definitely will do clutch, suspension is shaky, I love the stock suspension but it may have to go. So now that I am back on planet earth with what I want to do, lets hear a good setup, in and out for putting at least 300 at the wheels. I suppose it is clear to me that I am a bit out of my league asking for so much, and I have no doubt that hitting 300+ whp will probably shock the hell out of me when I feel it.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

I have had them in for about 4000 kms of 10psi boosting - good so far .
Had a couple of detonation scares but nothing more than i have had on the stock seals so they have not really been tested yet .
I definately recommend that you rebuild stronger BEFORE fitting the turbo otherwise too much of your money will end up getting chewed up on replacing housings and irons and not enough on the stuff that really matters.

Here is a thread on "how to make your FI Renesis engine last" - may be some ideas for you .
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-major-horsepower-upgrades-93/how-make-your-renesis-turbo-sc-engine-last-187240/

On a side note : 10psi (300-315whp) on a Renesis is what I have come to realise is somewhat of a "sweet spot " . The car just feels perfect at that power level - especially with a fast spooling turbo that come on early in the rev range .
Past that and the upgrade list just gets bigger and bigger but the extra power just makes the car too extreme for my liking .

YaXMaNGTO

I don't know man... "extreme" and "daily driver" shouldn't be in same sentence.

For $20K, you could buy a used LS2 GTO, drop a nasty cam in it with headers, and have 450 reliable whp... have two cars. One for precision to slice and dice the corners and look good, and one to use as an urban assault vehicle and destroy lesser opponents at the stop light or from a roll. Both would be reliable... pick one in the morning, depending on which road you wanted to take to work. Both you can put the kiddo in the back seat, wife in the front, and go for a nice weekend spin.

bhop

^ Very True

You will might shock yourself at 400 and surprise your "opponents" as well.... For your DD; it will be fun to get on it but I don't think you will be able to use all of it.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

and look like every other redneck in town .

YaXMaNGTO

LOL!!! the reason I mentioned it here is that there are a lot folks in the military that happen to like the GTO. it was just a thought that crossed my mind, Brettus.

YaXMaNGTO

Ya, and he's saying he wants to keep it as an heirloom. In 15 years, I don't think there will be many if any highly modified gasoline powered cars on public streets. I think they'll clamp down to the point there will be no way to get around some strict inspection or enforcement process the government decides to cook up.

That being said, get away with whatever you can right now, and have fun for next couple of years in our little renaissance age of cheap, high hp through technology... but don't expect it to stay this way, and don't maniacally invest in a highly modified late model car if you plan to keep it for over a decade.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

just messing with ya . But my point is kinda relavant - if he wanted a v8 he would have bought one .

ctlums

iTrader: (1)

Man those are so nice...ok enough drooling, eh, what were we talking about anyway? **** really hard to focus right now sorry for being such a boob..


Thanks for sharing those with us Brettus, I will have good dreams tonight.

I am pretty sure that long before I get another eng in the shop to tinker with I will rebuild what I have turbo it conservatively and go from there. I am thinking that perhaps in the future I would just have to take on a different project, I am in love with rotaries, perhaps something really off the wall like putting a 20b in a mustang or something, hell I dont know, depends how bored I am. For now conservative is seemingly the best thing. I have not taken into consideration that this is a very light car, at 300 whp it still wont take my Mach 1 off the line but it will probably catch up and embarrass it. And more importantly in a practical road application the rx will be a much better ride on the curvy roads...

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

400 horses?

start with a fresh, properly prepared motor:
-proper seal tolerances
-a little cleaning of the exhaust ports since its open, and you'll be pushing massively more than they are intended for
-talk to those who know about modifying coolant passages around the spark plugs
-discuss/determine with those in the know if you should consider different seals(not any/enough data at these levels to say)

then add:
all the obvious turbo hardware
engine management
clutch
catch can
coils, plugs, wires
fuel pump, injectors
gauges, sending units, and pod(s)
mater/meth kit
midpipe/catback

and then the normal stuff that is good advice for most any Renny: water pump, OMP adapter, etc

and be prepared for the tranny not to last very long, it may/may not.


Thats a starting point^^

faith&firepower

iTrader: (1)

I want to know where you are going to get $20k from a deployment. So far over the last 8-9 months of mine, Ive maybe saved about 4-5k. Think about your other bills and take life a little more seriously.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

i brought home over double that in 4 months when i went.... and i had ~$1000/month in car and insurance payments at the time. now beyond that i had little else, normal stuff back home like phone/cable/etc but no other debts. still... i know more than a few people who have come back with 15-20K from 1 year(army style) deployments

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

i know we dont want to argue this again, and i'm not saying the information those claims are based on is false...

but to outright say it that way without much more detail is flat out incorrect. it doesnt matter how you get the air in, turbo, super, or a midget blowing through your throttle body. the same amount of air being delivered by ANY method, will be met with the same amount of fuel, and create the same amount of heat.

the only time that kind of statement has a place ever, is potentially in low/manifold mounted turbos. those that have ACTUAL data do not disclose all, and thus i will not defy the idea that a mechanism mounted that close to the ports can cause unwanted heatsoak of materials leading its way back into the ports etc etc... but even then, i will only buy that possibility in the case of a very small turbo being pushed way beyond its efficiency range

but there is NO reason whatsoever for that statement to hold a grain of salt if discussing top mount. I'm sure you and others are aware of how drastically the EGT's drop being measured at the manifold compared to in the cat-pipe.... guess what? you've got a bit of distance between the ports and the turbo flange on a top mount too... for a top mount to heatsoak enough to conduct that distance back to the ports - you'd have everything in the engine bay around the turbo flange melting from extreme temps.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Paul you are absoulutely right. I dont want to open that up again.I edited my info to reflect that there are different opinions on this matter. I appreciatte you letting me know that what i entered wasnt real clear.
rotor on dude.

outinnowhere3193

iTrader: (2)

the same amount of air being delivered by ANY method, will be met with the same amount of fuel, and create the same amount of heat.


I thought temps mattered lol. If my air was say 80 vs. 40 there would be a difference in fuel to air.

As far as heat...yeah it's the same heat...but with a turbo you do have pressure and a turbo that in return holds heat in and pressure actually does create heat. Everything has it's ups and down. The sc uses the belt system which drags the motor down....then the turbo uses the exhaust gases....which to a point I consider the first few pounds of boost free....As you start getting higher and pressure gets higher you end up wit the same result.

paulmasoner

iTrader: (1)

sure, intake temps matter, but are the same in both systems.

sure pressure increases will yeild heat. go get REAL familiar with ideal gas law, and then talk to some actual smart people when it comes to turbo's and see what they have to say about exhaust pressure ratios, and think about proper turbo selection..... then come back and beleiving you buy the bit about backpressure. not a chance. heatsoak in a low mount undersized/overspun snail, maybe. not in anything deserving of being built though.

and for the record, its not the parasitic effect that is the "equivalent con" for the SC's... its hanging that extra torque at the end of another pulley and the effect that might/could have on bearings that arent meant for it. as a very exaggerated illustration - imagine putting 15inches of extension in your wheels and having them skateboarded a foot outside the fenders... think how your bearings would handle that.

ctlums

iTrader: (1)

Faith and power
this is for you

To the dude who doubts 20k

First off I suggest taking a financial management course, then marry somebody in the military, get deployed together. 20k gets very reachable. Full BAH, partial BAH, hazardous fire pay x2, tax free, sep x2, bas x2. I think there is something I am missing but that sums it up pretty much. There is a way to get uncle sam to make you rich. And I am far past the days of living shitty on deployment, so I am enjoying this very cush lifestyle in iraq at the moment and collecting a lot of money, after 7 years of this ****, its my turn for a break. First time I have deployed with her but I estimate our monthly take humbly at 8k, multiply by 12 and add in her nifty little 10k bonus, we are looking at 106k in one year. Not a damn thing to spend it on. this is why I can pretty much do as I want, However buying a different car before this is finished is out of the question. I am not interested in buying something and watching it depreciate in a ten minute drive from the dealership. 20k this car, that is what I am doing.

Stay army strong------
Semper FI---------------been both

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

show me your dyno or it didn't happen ......

outinnowhere3193

iTrader: (2)

yeah dyno numbers would be great. I know the last time I talked to cam he claimed he had two low compression engines running boost that was getting really good results.