RotorGeek Carputer, RearView Cam
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I have to say that i am jelous, i would never even think of putting this much work to get a rear view camera, my bros. s500 came with one at it looks sweet, till the tiem he borke it baking up into my GSX =P lol
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robbz- i'm using the PIE input and have a 100% clean signal. I was shocked that it had no whine or loops when it was done.
very nice, how much was the nav tray. Is that s&t 05? It looks much better than 2003, which is what i started with. but really, there is nothing better than iGuide
very nice, how much was the nav tray. Is that s&t 05? It looks much better than 2003, which is what i started with. but really, there is nothing better than iGuide
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Originally Posted by Rotary Rasp
robbz- i'm using the PIE input and have a 100% clean signal. I was shocked that it had no whine or loops when it was done.
very nice, how much was the nav tray. Is that s&t 05? It looks much better than 2003, which is what i started with. but really, there is nothing better than iGuide
very nice, how much was the nav tray. Is that s&t 05? It looks much better than 2003, which is what i started with. but really, there is nothing better than iGuide
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Originally Posted by robbz23
Yo what up guys. I thought I would jump in on the comments too. I have been watching your posts RR and RG, because I am putting my carputer together now too. I have it 75% installed and cool. I got a motorized screen on Ebay for 250. Its cool for now but I would much rather go with the stock navi housing. I can't believe theres enough room for your mobo and shiza up there too. that would make the install so much easier then what i did which is run it to the pass thru. I am using RoadRunner for a front end with Mazda 6/3 skin and destinator with Map Monkey. I like RR because it has the Ipod style method of finding music (artist - album - track). It is all integrated nicely, and almost matches our 8's. BTW you can easily find Destinator and the dll to make it work on isohunt.com. Anyway good luck with your install and show more pics later.
One question though. Which method are you using for audio input? Do you have ground loop problems? I installed it and had some major ground loop, it was so annoying even with full volume on the computer, that I couldn't stand it. I need to get an isolator, and maybe ground the computer to the radio case.
One question though. Which method are you using for audio input? Do you have ground loop problems? I installed it and had some major ground loop, it was so annoying even with full volume on the computer, that I couldn't stand it. I need to get an isolator, and maybe ground the computer to the radio case.
For yet MORE options... take a look at CarPC adapter made by mp3car.com member jbors. Allows you to control the PC from the steering wheel controls and also output track info to the headunit. He doesn't have a Ford/Mazda unit yet, however, I am willing to bet that the P.I.E. adapter with it's M-BUS connector will work fine with the M-BUS version of the CarPC adapter.
[thread jack]
Here's a question for the CarPC people... do you prefer more flexiblity or faster more "integrated" systems? Basically... WinXP/WinXPe based systems with a front end or WinCE based systems? You'll have ultimate flexibility with WinXP, but it'll boot slower and use more resources... makes a Via board too slow for some people. However, many on mp3car.com say if you want Nav, mp3, bluetooth phone, and occasional video/DVD then the Via has enough power. Looking at it from that perspective... then why WinXP if there was a viable CE option? With a API/SDK you could add apps to it still. It'd boot faster, run faster, require less memory. There would potentially be more navigation options. Syncing with your home pc/server is easy since there is a MS made Sync app. It makes sense to me... but then I prefer more PnP to DIY (Windows over *nix). What are your guys thoughts (feel free to start another thread if necessary).
[/thread jack]
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Originally Posted by Japan8
I was going to mention this to Rotary Geek...
For yet MORE options... take a look at CarPC adapter made by mp3car.com member jbors. Allows you to control the PC from the steering wheel controls and also output track info to the headunit. He doesn't have a Ford/Mazda unit yet, however, I am willing to bet that the P.I.E. adapter with it's M-BUS connector will work fine with the M-BUS version of the CarPC adapter.
[thread jack]
Here's a question for the CarPC people... do you prefer more flexiblity or faster more "integrated" systems? Basically... WinXP/WinXPe based systems with a front end or WinCE based systems? You'll have ultimate flexibility with WinXP, but it'll boot slower and use more resources... makes a Via board too slow for some people. However, many on mp3car.com say if you want Nav, mp3, bluetooth phone, and occasional video/DVD then the Via has enough power. Looking at it from that perspective... then why WinXP if there was a viable CE option? With a API/SDK you could add apps to it still. It'd boot faster, run faster, require less memory. There would potentially be more navigation options. Syncing with your home pc/server is easy since there is a MS made Sync app. It makes sense to me... but then I prefer more PnP to DIY (Windows over *nix). What are your guys thoughts (feel free to start another thread if necessary).
[/thread jack]
For yet MORE options... take a look at CarPC adapter made by mp3car.com member jbors. Allows you to control the PC from the steering wheel controls and also output track info to the headunit. He doesn't have a Ford/Mazda unit yet, however, I am willing to bet that the P.I.E. adapter with it's M-BUS connector will work fine with the M-BUS version of the CarPC adapter.
[thread jack]
Here's a question for the CarPC people... do you prefer more flexiblity or faster more "integrated" systems? Basically... WinXP/WinXPe based systems with a front end or WinCE based systems? You'll have ultimate flexibility with WinXP, but it'll boot slower and use more resources... makes a Via board too slow for some people. However, many on mp3car.com say if you want Nav, mp3, bluetooth phone, and occasional video/DVD then the Via has enough power. Looking at it from that perspective... then why WinXP if there was a viable CE option? With a API/SDK you could add apps to it still. It'd boot faster, run faster, require less memory. There would potentially be more navigation options. Syncing with your home pc/server is easy since there is a MS made Sync app. It makes sense to me... but then I prefer more PnP to DIY (Windows over *nix). What are your guys thoughts (feel free to start another thread if necessary).
[/thread jack]
As far as operating systems go, you'll notice that Win XP is the OS of choice. This is because for the most part, it is an awesome operating system. Most people already know how to use it, most all drivers and software are made for Windows, and lastly, XP can handle crashes pretty well.
While Win XP may be the slowest OS around, it doesn't matter for most people. Most of the programs used don't require much speed, and can get by just fine with extra memory to compensate for the lack of speed.
Win XP embedded is another great choice for carputers. It offers the ability to only install the components needed in your particular application. Once the image of XPE is created, the core must be locked down. This offers another clear advantage, it is very stable, fast and secure. XPE offers very fast boot times because only the required components are loaded during boot. For that same reason, XPE images can be very small. The only real downside of XPE is, 1) it is very expensive, 2) it is very hard to create an image. I have a XPE image which I used for a while. I resorted back to Win XP because I needed a more dynamic OS.
Windows CE isn't really viable because very few companies, other than VIA, offer CE drivers. For those who don't know, it is designed for PDA's. I realize that there is a new version of CE, that in which, I know nothing about. I do know that the last version would not support many things. Also, not a lot of software around for it. Lastly, it appears the CE my be too limited for some users. As far as snycing goes, there are programs for any OS that will sync with your desktop or server.
I found this link which goes in depth about CE.
http://www.embedded-computing.com/pd...soft.Nov05.pdf
If all the negitives I mentioned were overcome, CE would be a great OS. But until then, Windows XP remains.
FYI- XPE and CE are not to be installed by the average user.
Let me know if you or anyone has further questions.
-Rodger
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About that CarPC adapter... truemagellen had started a thread about it before, but here is the link to the site for it... http://www.indashpc.org/
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Great write up!
I agree completely.
I'm not so sure that is true for the reasons you give. I'd say XP is used over older versions of Windows because of stability. However, XP v Linux would be for the reasons you give. People are more familiar with Windows and the learning curve to build the customized setup is much less. The fact that there is a distinct lack of software such as front ends and especially navigation available for linux also seems to be a factor.
Just to split hairs... WinCE was designed for real-time applications (systems). PDAs is only one. Palm top computers, cell phones and even POS systems (Point-of-Service.. i.e. cash registers). I imagine you could even use it as an OS for routers, switches and other networking equipment (Cisco uses CIOS... *nix derrvied).
Xenarc does offer WinCE drivers for their screens.
How many pieces of hardware require new drivers to be written/installed? I've been wondering about when people add a CF GPS receiver to their PDA and nav software. I've never tried it, but are they required to add drivers through ActiveSync?
WinCE 5.0 does seem to be more... flexible. DVD, USB, etc. are supported. As it does support a version of .NET (.NET compact framework), I am curious as to the level of abstraction in app programming... like .NET on NT Kernel machines.
As far as CE being too limited for some users... you can't please them all. WinXP is too much work from some users... on the other hand. Too difficult to Nlite and too difficult to drop on CF (there seem to be some issues there still too)... there's a lot of resources available to help you, but for the average user (non-IT person)... it can be a bit overwhelming I imagine.
Do you think that the number of non-technical people interested in a CarPC (modded Xbox, in-car iPod and mobile GPS/nav included) are a small minority? Or do you think that they exist as a distinctly different market than the CarPC enthusiast?
Ditto! The average user should probably also skip fancy stuff like running WinXP from Compact Flash (CF) memory cards... rather involved and you can easily ruin an expensive memory card.
Thanks a lot for your thoughts.
Originally Posted by Rotary Rasp
Let me start by saying that I have a 1ghz via board. The via
boards are fast enough for anything but gaming. For most people, playing Doom 3 is the last thing they want to do on a 7 inch screen while driving.
boards are fast enough for anything but gaming. For most people, playing Doom 3 is the last thing they want to do on a 7 inch screen while driving.
As far as operating systems go, you'll notice that Win XP is the OS of choice. This is because for the most part, it is an awesome operating system. Most people already know how to use it, most all drivers and software are made for Windows, and lastly, XP can handle crashes pretty well.
While Win XP may be the slowest OS around, it doesn't matter for most people. Most of the programs used don't require much speed, and can get by just fine with extra memory to compensate for the lack of speed.
While Win XP may be the slowest OS around, it doesn't matter for most people. Most of the programs used don't require much speed, and can get by just fine with extra memory to compensate for the lack of speed.
However, it does seem that everyone wants a faster booting more stable (hibernation/standby issues) system. There also seem to be many who
Win XP embedded is another great choice for carputers. It offers the ability to only install the components needed in your particular application. Once the image of XPE is created, the core must be locked down. This offers another clear advantage, it is very stable, fast and secure. XPE offers very fast boot times because only the required components are loaded during boot. For that same reason, XPE images can be very small. The only real downside of XPE is, 1) it is very expensive, 2) it is very hard to create an image. I have a XPE image which I used for a while. I resorted back to Win XP because I needed a more dynamic OS.
Win XP embedded is another great choice for carputers. It offers the ability to only install the components needed in your particular application. Once the image of XPE is created, the core must be locked down. This offers another clear advantage, it is very stable, fast and secure. XPE offers very fast boot times because only the required components are loaded during boot. For that same reason, XPE images can be very small. The only real downside of XPE is, 1) it is very expensive, 2) it is very hard to create an image. I have a XPE image which I used for a while. I resorted back to Win XP because I needed a more dynamic OS.
Windows CE isn't really viable because very few companies, other than VIA, offer CE drivers. For those who don't know, it is designed for PDA's. I realize that there is a new version of CE, that in which, I know nothing about. I do know that the last version would not support many things. Also, not a lot of software around for it. Lastly, it appears the CE my be too limited for some users. As far as snycing goes, there are programs for any OS that will sync with your desktop or server.
Xenarc does offer WinCE drivers for their screens.
How many pieces of hardware require new drivers to be written/installed? I've been wondering about when people add a CF GPS receiver to their PDA and nav software. I've never tried it, but are they required to add drivers through ActiveSync?
WinCE 5.0 does seem to be more... flexible. DVD, USB, etc. are supported. As it does support a version of .NET (.NET compact framework), I am curious as to the level of abstraction in app programming... like .NET on NT Kernel machines.
As far as CE being too limited for some users... you can't please them all. WinXP is too much work from some users... on the other hand. Too difficult to Nlite and too difficult to drop on CF (there seem to be some issues there still too)... there's a lot of resources available to help you, but for the average user (non-IT person)... it can be a bit overwhelming I imagine.
Do you think that the number of non-technical people interested in a CarPC (modded Xbox, in-car iPod and mobile GPS/nav included) are a small minority? Or do you think that they exist as a distinctly different market than the CarPC enthusiast?
FYI- XPE and CE are not to be installed by the average user.
Let me know if you or anyone has further questions.
-Rodger
-Rodger
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Originally Posted by Japan8
About that CarPC adapter... truemagellen had started a thread about it before, but here is the link to the site for it... http://www.indashpc.org/
I also have the PIE adaptor and it sounds awesome
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I'm not so sure that is true for the reasons you give. I'd say XP is used over older versions of Windows because of stability. However, XP v Linux would be for the reasons you give. People are more familiar with Windows and the learning curve to build the customized setup is much less. The fact that there is a distinct lack of software such as front ends and especially navigation available for linux also seems to be a factor.
I didn't go much into the different flavors of Linux because of the obvious reasons. There is a major lack of software, drivers, and support. You'd better off using Mac OS.
Just to split hairs... WinCE was designed for real-time applications (systems). PDAs is only one. Palm top computers, cell phones and even POS systems (Point-of-Service.. i.e. cash registers). I imagine you could even use it as an OS for routers, switches and other networking equipment (Cisco uses CIOS... *nix derrvied).
How many pieces of hardware require new drivers to be written/installed? I've been wondering about when people add a CF GPS receiver to their PDA and nav software. I've never tried it, but are they required to add drivers through ActiveSync?
As far as CE being too limited for some users... you can't please them all. WinXP is too much work from some users... on the other hand. Too difficult to Nlite and too difficult to drop on CF (there seem to be some issues there still too)... there's a lot of resources available to help you, but for the average user (non-IT person)... it can be a bit overwhelming I imagine.
Do you think that the number of non-technical people interested in a CarPC (modded Xbox, in-car iPod and mobile GPS/nav included) are a small minority? Or do you think that they exist as a distinctly different market than the CarPC enthusiast?
Do you think that the number of non-technical people interested in a CarPC (modded Xbox, in-car iPod and mobile GPS/nav included) are a small minority? Or do you think that they exist as a distinctly different market than the CarPC enthusiast?
Lastly, I think that most of the non-technical people interested in a CarPC are the minority. I think most of the people that do these custom PCs, like us, are in a different leage. Most of these people are IT people who have a good idea of what they're doing. Carputers are very complex, which in turn, scare most people away that are unsure whether they can do it. Another thing to consider is that there are not many, if any, places that will do this for you. Which means pretty much every carputer is a DIY.
Feel free to comment.
-Rodger
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I was just talking to a guy here at work about XP embedded and the tools to make images. He was explaining how you can take a fully installed XP computer, and use the XP embedded tools that will make an image of only the modules needed for that one computer. Anyway I am going to see if this is a workable solution for my carputer and update you guys on the results. Apparently the image we use here for thin client workstations (via mb's without a HD) is about 190MB.
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Originally Posted by robbz23
I was just talking to a guy here at work about XP embedded and the tools to make images. He was explaining how you can take a fully installed XP computer, and use the XP embedded tools that will make an image of only the modules needed for that one computer. Anyway I am going to see if this is a workable solution for my carputer and update you guys on the results. Apparently the image we use here for thin client workstations (via mb's without a HD) is about 190MB.
It is also good to know that the hard drives built today have much higher to tolerances to shock and vibrations than even the ones built a few years ago. The operational shock limit for my 120 gb hard drive is 20G's and a vibration limit of 1G. By looking at those specs, you would need to get in a wreck before your drive would crash. No of course, the drive is more likely to fail in a car than it would in your desktop, but my point is it still more than capable than in car use. I've had my drive running since May without any problems. And for the 50 bucks I paid for it, I could care less if I have to replace it every 3 years when the warrenty ends.
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NOt much time to comment, but here's some stuff...
WinCE 5.0 drivers http://msdn.microsoft.com/embedded/u...ult.aspx#other
General WinCE stuff...
http://msdn.microsoft.com/embedded/g...d/default.aspx
http://msdn.microsoft.com/embedded/w...e/default.aspx
WinCE 5.0 drivers http://msdn.microsoft.com/embedded/u...ult.aspx#other
General WinCE stuff...
http://msdn.microsoft.com/embedded/g...d/default.aspx
http://msdn.microsoft.com/embedded/w...e/default.aspx
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RotaryRasp --
We do use CF images for our thin clients at work, but they are hooked up thru the IDE interface. From what I understand you can use HD's for the same function. I dunno i was just thinking it would be a great way to save on boot times, etc
We do use CF images for our thin clients at work, but they are hooked up thru the IDE interface. From what I understand you can use HD's for the same function. I dunno i was just thinking it would be a great way to save on boot times, etc
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Originally Posted by robbz23
RotaryRasp --
We do use CF images for our thin clients at work, but they are hooked up thru the IDE interface. From what I understand you can use HD's for the same function. I dunno i was just thinking it would be a great way to save on boot times, etc
We do use CF images for our thin clients at work, but they are hooked up thru the IDE interface. From what I understand you can use HD's for the same function. I dunno i was just thinking it would be a great way to save on boot times, etc
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You got to love this. Posted right on Microsofts Windows CE website:
"Important: Microsoft Product Support does not provide support for third-party validated device driver software. For support, contact the company listed as the owner of the device driver. Unless otherwise noted, Microsoft has not tested these devices and cannot advise you to use them."
"Important: Microsoft Product Support does not provide support for third-party validated device driver software. For support, contact the company listed as the owner of the device driver. Unless otherwise noted, Microsoft has not tested these devices and cannot advise you to use them."
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Are you guys using laptop hard drives? If you are concerned at all about the reliability due to shock etc, use laptop hard drives. If my ipod is still working (and it is) then you shouldn't have any problems in a carputer.
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Originally Posted by slavearm
Are you guys using laptop hard drives? If you are concerned at all about the reliability due to shock etc, use laptop hard drives. If my ipod is still working (and it is) then you shouldn't have any problems in a carputer.
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Originally Posted by slavearm
Are you guys using laptop hard drives? If you are concerned at all about the reliability due to shock etc, use laptop hard drives. If my ipod is still working (and it is) then you shouldn't have any problems in a carputer.
Hitachi also make a line of auto environment specific 2.5" HDD which have exceptionally high shock and vibration ratings, but size is only 20GB and 40GB. They aren't cheap either.
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Originally Posted by Rotary Rasp
You got to love this. Posted right on Microsofts Windows CE website:
"Important: Microsoft Product Support does not provide support for third-party validated device driver software. For support, contact the company listed as the owner of the device driver. Unless otherwise noted, Microsoft has not tested these devices and cannot advise you to use them."
"Important: Microsoft Product Support does not provide support for third-party validated device driver software. For support, contact the company listed as the owner of the device driver. Unless otherwise noted, Microsoft has not tested these devices and cannot advise you to use them."
From a business perspective that is perfectly reasonable... they didn't write them and it's not a necessary component of their product (WinCE). So the "special" drivers that ATI packages with their video card are their responsibility to support and Microsoft doesn't guarantee that they will work or not cause conflicts.
This doesn't mean don't use them. This is just legal *** covering. Otherwise MS is pretty much saying to use them.
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Originally Posted by Japan8
I am more than willing to bet they say the same thing for 3rd party XP drivers as well.
From a business perspective that is perfectly reasonable... they didn't write them and it's not a necessary component of their product (WinCE). So the "special" drivers that ATI packages with their video card are their responsibility to support and Microsoft doesn't guarantee that they will work or not cause conflicts.
This doesn't mean don't use them. This is just legal *** covering. Otherwise MS is pretty much saying to use them.
From a business perspective that is perfectly reasonable... they didn't write them and it's not a necessary component of their product (WinCE). So the "special" drivers that ATI packages with their video card are their responsibility to support and Microsoft doesn't guarantee that they will work or not cause conflicts.
This doesn't mean don't use them. This is just legal *** covering. Otherwise MS is pretty much saying to use them.
As far as drive storage goes, I think for the money, any desktop drive would work fine. No reason to spend extra money for a laptop drive that may not last any longer. I know some will disagree with that, but do a search on mp3car.com and you'll see that most people have had no issues running 3.5 inch drives and prefer them because of their cheaper prices and higher speeds. Hard drive mounting also has a large effect on its realibilty.