Omicron

For those of you who haven't seen it, check this out... http://www.defi-shop.com/product/basis/basis_top.html

Sputnik

That's the same one that was discussed previously here.

---jps

HIX8

And here's a site with instructions on how to hack a DVD signal into your HUD:

http://www.just~kidding.com/canusay_rdkill.htm

_____

8_wannabe

ha... I was gonna totally diss that DVD thing until I read the name of the URL. Good one. :-)

Spinny 3ngls

those of you interested should also go check out

http://www.holosport.com

this one has multiple sensor inputs and can be upgraded etc...

huhsler

Wow. I don't think most people can train themselves to easily ignore HUDs, like fighter pilots can, though.

Training yourself to ignore a feed from your Office Space DVD on your HUD would be even trickier!

HIX8

My opinion about having a HUD in a car is that it is unnecessary, unhelpful and dangerous. Yes, even if all you have being reflected up there is your digital speed (two digits, three tops) I consider that to be more hazard than help.

Fighter pilots do not ignore HUDs. HUDs are designed to grab your attention, not to be ignored. There are cases of fatalities in fighter jets caused by the HUD. To give one example, there was an incident involving an F-16 in Korea. This guy was landing his jet in a low visibility condition. Instead of touching down to a smooth landing, there was a nasty, gut-wrenching CRUNCH, and his jet goes sliding down the runway out of control. What went wrong? Well, he landed on top of another F-16 that had been cleared by the tower for takeoff. The guy doing the landing never saw the other guy that he killed.

The mishap investigation board determined that the landing pilot had his view obscured by the symbology in his Heads Up Display. Death by HUD.

The reason that HUDs in jets are so helpful is because the VAST majority of the sky is empty. Not so for the road (or runway). Those who design jet cockpits are so careful about what displays go where, they refer to these locations as "real estate". Space is not to be wasted. Every square inch of viewable space is meticulously utilized. Nothing is going to be shined on a HUD if the info has a better location somewhere else in the cockpit.

So how might a smart cockpit designer change an RX-8 instrumentation panel layout?

- Maximize visibility to the road outside. Eliminate everything that unnecessarily obscures forward vision, to include the rear view mirror (use nav display as a Heads Down view to the rear).

I've got lots more suggestions, but I'll stop at just one for now.

When I saw the prototype RX-8 cockpit, I just about freaked. Shiny chrome all over. Exterior color paint on top of the instrument cluster (may look nice on a showroom floor, but not out on the road when this color reflects back into your eyes). Etc. I sent Mazda an email telling them that when I'm behind the wheel, I want my attention to be out on the road. I urged them to get rid of all that chrome and glitz.

I have no idea how much impact, if any, that my email made (I got a polite "thank you..." reply, nothing more). But I am certainly glad that the production RX-8 came out with the vast majority of that chrome eliminated (for some reason they kept the chromed steering wheel badge).

So to anyone who may think that buying a HUD for your 8 will impress all the chicks / guys, you might want to consider that one chick / guy who might make an impression on your hood when you fail to see that person on the road because they were hidden behind your snazzy digital display.

Long post here, but I'm not sure that the message got across in my first short post. Here is the image from that other HUD website and I'll add the same comment...

Can you say "roadkill"?

8_wannabe

Great, analytical answer and cool pic! Thanks, HIX8; you gave us lots of food for thought. So do you work in the aviation industry?

Sputnik

It appears to me that you haven't driven a car with a HUD, especially one with a factory HUD (like a Corvette or Grand Prix, or the new Caddys). A HUD for a car does not take up the majority of the windshield like a fighter jet (I'll argue those points another day).

Go find a Corvette or Grand Prix where you can sit in the car and see the HUD (Your local Pontiac dealer will probably be happy to show it to you on their Grand Prix). The HUD is in a rather small area, at the bottom of the windshield (when looking at it from the driver's seat, it appears on the street in front of the car, just past the hood). I can tell you from owning a Grand Prix with a HUD for four years, that the display does not impede your ability to see the road clearly in any manner. It is also dim enough that it is not too bright in your eyes at night.

Instead of decreasing the ability of the driver to keep their eyes on the road, it actually helps keep your eyes out of the IP and radio, and on the highway instead. The HUD on the Grand Prix, for example, has speed, turn signal indicators, a "check gauges" light (if any of the gauges are out of normal ranges, or if a warning light is lit), and a low fuel warning light. For most of us driving around town or down the road, this is all you need 99% of the time (on the manual transmission Corvette, a tacho is included). Additionally, the Grand Prix comes with steering wheel radio controls, and it displays CD track info, or radio station info. So you can perform over 90% of the operations of the radio without having to take your eyes off the road, or your hands off of the wheel.

Now, the aftermarket HUD that Omicron pointed out is limited to speedo and tach, and needs to be installed properly so that it isn't too far up on the windshield. But as long as you install it correctly, it won't block any view, and it will keep your eyes on the road more than the standard IP. This isn't a flashy toy like all of those bright flashy displays on most aftermarket head units. This is a useful item.

I myself installed the boost gauge version for the aftermarket turbo kit in my Miata. Normally, an A-pillar boost gauge is used. I felt that it is safer to have a peak-hold capable gauge that does not take my eyes off the road when I'm under boost, than to have to take my eyes off the road and re-focus them on a regular boost gauge, and have to watch it so that I don't miss any boost spikes.

---jps

HIX8

Thanks for the feedback. When I was drafting that post, I had intended to explicitly state that I've never driven a car with a HUD and to have my comments tempered by that fact. My bad for having dropped the ball on that.

I currently work at NASA's Johnson Space Center (see avatar). My HUD experience is limited to winged vehicles, from various high performance jets to the space shuttle. My first experience with HUDs as an operator was back in the late 80s. I have briefed groups of specialists in the industry on HUD design. One of my latest design inputs is currently being considered for integration in the shuttle, and I have patents pending on human-computer interface / display design. HUD symbology design is peripheral to my primary job. I only do it for fun, and because I get bummed whenever I hear of people dying because of faulty design decisions.

I would agree that if the HUD display shows up low enough to not obscure any vital viewing area, then I would consider it to have potential as a safety enhancement. But I cringe when I see something like that Holo Gauge System.

guy321

I e-mailed these people and got some additional information for anyone interested:

Release date is sometime in January, they are currently setting up distributors.

The price will be $486 and comes with Tachometer, vacuum/Boost, Oil or Water
Temperature, Oil Pressure, and Volts. Also included is a programmable shift
light, a NOS arming and activation light.

No spedo... I thought that's kind of odd, but then i figured you would know how fast you were going just by RPMS anyway.. plus you wouldnt want to take up valuable real-estate and replace the NOS arming light

But if you want the spedo or various other modules, it's $90 to $125 depending ...

The initial color released will be red/orange.

It comes with a special clear anti-glare reflective film to put on your winshield to display the image. You can also buy a tombstone display dealie for $127.

That is all.

jodynich

come christmas im ordering that DEFI model. That thing kicks butt.

Nubo

A speedometer? - how quaint.

Gee, what I'd really want HUD for is to get an ANALOG speed gauge. A horizontal bar would be fine. Something I can see in my peripheral vision that gives a good enough indication of speed and information on the rate of change, instead of the stupid digital speedo. I don't care if I'm going 66 vs. 67 mph. I DO care if I'm slowing down quickly enough to make that 15 mph posted on the exit-ramp-from-hell.

guy321

Most everything else on that HUD is analog format.. I dont know if the spedo is or not.

Omicron

Already ordered mine. :D

mdmaclean

A long time ago (1991), I bought a Grand Prix with the HUD. It was a simple display with digital speed, turn signals, check guages, and nothing else.

Over the time I had the car (about 5 years), it was quite enjoyable. It was not usefull when driving quickly, but to maintain your desired speed it was easy to read and convenient. The optics made it appear to float about 5' ahead of the car, and your eyes did not have to change focus as much as they do to read the speedometer in the RX-8. The display was not large nor distracting.

Having had one for a while, if a properly positioned one was an option in a car I liked, I would pay for the option.

o_town_racer

I have had HUD in my Vette since '99. If the RX-8 had a factory option for it, I would have gotten it. With HUD you don't even bother taking your eyes off the road.