UK Spec car with Canzoomer
04-30-2005, 02:00 PM
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UK Spec car with Canzoomer
Okay here is the thread that will prove if the Canzoomer unit is actually doing anything.
When the canzoomer unit arrived I installed it into my car with maurices canzoomer map stage 1.
The results I got from the dyno were not what I was expecting.
The unit had actually dropped my horsepower by 20. This was right throughout the RPM range.
Dyno HP resuts here
Dyno torque results here
Please note runs 1+2 are with canzoomer unit
Please note runs 3+4 are stock ecu
I removed the unit and opted for a unichip. The unit was tuned to the car on the rolling road. An addtional 7HP was found. This was right at the top of the RPM range.
Still to post the dyno, no scanner setup at the moment, sorry.
Then after looking through the threads I found a modification that canzoomer had issued, I think it is called the ignition mod. Basically clipping two capacitors off the daughter board contained within the unit.
I did this, uninstalled the unichip, and put the canzoomer unit back into the car.
The car was a lot livelier than I remebered with the unit in before trhis mod.
Next I wanted to give the unit the best chance of gaining horse power so after looking at a few maps that you guys have made I chose one. PrObers map. The car sounded a bit meatier than the unichip setup.
After the map was in the car for about a day the engine management light came on. After interregating the system it was found to be a misfire error code. I cleared the code and have been running with the map with no further adverse effects.
The car was meant to be dynoed on friday morning but that has changed to thursday morning now Thursday being 5th May.
Just wondering if any one else has found a slight hesitation when using PrObers map in the low rev range? Any advice on how to fix this?
The map is located here
When the canzoomer unit arrived I installed it into my car with maurices canzoomer map stage 1.
The results I got from the dyno were not what I was expecting.
The unit had actually dropped my horsepower by 20. This was right throughout the RPM range.
Dyno HP resuts here
Dyno torque results here
Please note runs 1+2 are with canzoomer unit
Please note runs 3+4 are stock ecu
I removed the unit and opted for a unichip. The unit was tuned to the car on the rolling road. An addtional 7HP was found. This was right at the top of the RPM range.
Still to post the dyno, no scanner setup at the moment, sorry.
Then after looking through the threads I found a modification that canzoomer had issued, I think it is called the ignition mod. Basically clipping two capacitors off the daughter board contained within the unit.
I did this, uninstalled the unichip, and put the canzoomer unit back into the car.
The car was a lot livelier than I remebered with the unit in before trhis mod.
Next I wanted to give the unit the best chance of gaining horse power so after looking at a few maps that you guys have made I chose one. PrObers map. The car sounded a bit meatier than the unichip setup.
After the map was in the car for about a day the engine management light came on. After interregating the system it was found to be a misfire error code. I cleared the code and have been running with the map with no further adverse effects.
The car was meant to be dynoed on friday morning but that has changed to thursday morning now Thursday being 5th May.
Just wondering if any one else has found a slight hesitation when using PrObers map in the low rev range? Any advice on how to fix this?
The map is located here
04-30-2005, 02:31 PM
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Below 5400 rpms its completely stock.
if you are talking about the hesitation around the 6k area in my map its the ignition timing I took out because I run lower octane (our mid grade gas) and wanted a very safe map (there is a rather large a/f ratio spike around then from intake ports opening)... I doubt you would have any problems if you would make the "3100" - "3300" (remember thats really 6200-6600 rpms) values equal to 4.
Other then that I never had any hesitation with it (and it seems our latest N Flash actually smoothed that area out for me).
It would be nice to see what the a/f ratios look like on your car with it... perhaps take it through the rev range in third gear once and log the a/f ratio with a Canscan if you have one available
if you are talking about the hesitation around the 6k area in my map its the ignition timing I took out because I run lower octane (our mid grade gas) and wanted a very safe map (there is a rather large a/f ratio spike around then from intake ports opening)... I doubt you would have any problems if you would make the "3100" - "3300" (remember thats really 6200-6600 rpms) values equal to 4.
Other then that I never had any hesitation with it (and it seems our latest N Flash actually smoothed that area out for me).
It would be nice to see what the a/f ratios look like on your car with it... perhaps take it through the rev range in third gear once and log the a/f ratio with a Canscan if you have one available
04-30-2005, 02:37 PM
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I can do this for you but tellme how to log the data, I havent played with the software that much, I can get it real time but not discovered how to log the data.
First question, is this done through the greddy pakage or the canscan
The hesitation seems to come about with cold car 3-45000 rpm.
a little jerky when more than approx 50% throttle, not noticeable if I take it a bit easier.
With a warm car it seems to be 4th gear or higher low rpm pickup, eg 2000-4000rpm then the car jumps into life.
First question, is this done through the greddy pakage or the canscan
The hesitation seems to come about with cold car 3-45000 rpm.
a little jerky when more than approx 50% throttle, not noticeable if I take it a bit easier.
With a warm car it seems to be 4th gear or higher low rpm pickup, eg 2000-4000rpm then the car jumps into life.
Last edited by mcpheeg; 04-30-2005 at 02:39 PM.
04-30-2005, 02:56 PM
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well as i said earlier (and you can see by the map) everything should be acting like stock below 5400 rpms, so I'm not sure why you would be noticing a difference that low in the rpms
Just a brief description of logging - open the CANscan program and get it to connect, click on Multivew from the menubar. In the multiview screen you should be able to choose up to 6 things to log - as a minimum you should grab rpms, the a/f ratio (the one that gives you the actual ratio not voltage), throttle position, and ignition timing. In the bottom left you need to select how many parameters you have and how often to sample (.1 sec is good). When your ready to record data, hit the button to start (you'll see the live views) and when your finished hit the save button and name the .txt file.
If you know how to you Excel, you should be able to import the file into a spreadsheet form and make a graph of it (ignition & a/f ratio vs rpms at 100% throttle would be good)
Most of this is better explained in the "CZ Tuning for Dummies" thread in this forum .
Just a brief description of logging - open the CANscan program and get it to connect, click on Multivew from the menubar. In the multiview screen you should be able to choose up to 6 things to log - as a minimum you should grab rpms, the a/f ratio (the one that gives you the actual ratio not voltage), throttle position, and ignition timing. In the bottom left you need to select how many parameters you have and how often to sample (.1 sec is good). When your ready to record data, hit the button to start (you'll see the live views) and when your finished hit the save button and name the .txt file.
If you know how to you Excel, you should be able to import the file into a spreadsheet form and make a graph of it (ignition & a/f ratio vs rpms at 100% throttle would be good)
Most of this is better explained in the "CZ Tuning for Dummies" thread in this forum .
05-03-2005, 01:26 PM
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Okay here are a few things that can be added to this thread about tuning the cz unit.
I have found out that some of us are running the cz with capacitors on the ign board and some have been clipped off.
Also some of us are running with the cz unit wired to the half rpm mode and the others are running with the cz unit running wired to the full rpm mode.
I was running prObers map, which by his own decleration is a half rpm map.
With this map I was finding hesitation through 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears. All where the ecu should have been stock. 2000-4500 rpm.
This was causing havoc with the ecu, the mil light kept flashing as if trying to correct something, then came on constantly. This happened twice. After interigating the system I found that the same error was getting thrown up all the time.
After inspection of my cz unit the rpm mode was wired to the full rpm.
Installed the cz stage two map and the car seems to be running alot better.
Again the dyno is scheduled for thursday morning and I will find out if it is working and giving power gains.
Question for all CZ Tuners, would a half rpm map be uncompatable if the unit is wired up for full rpm??
If the unit works and gives some gains then I will tune it specifically to my car and my setup.
After this is acheived I am going to try and write up a how to tune your CZ Unit to your RX8. This is for the dummies like me who are new to this ecu tuning. It should be written so it is easily understood and should solve all the problems with the CZ Unit. Please note that by no way am I qualified to do this but It will be my goal to find out from the people in the know and bring all this knowledge together in one thread.
Hopefully it should help out the novices amongst us.
I have found out that some of us are running the cz with capacitors on the ign board and some have been clipped off.
Also some of us are running with the cz unit wired to the half rpm mode and the others are running with the cz unit running wired to the full rpm mode.
I was running prObers map, which by his own decleration is a half rpm map.
With this map I was finding hesitation through 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears. All where the ecu should have been stock. 2000-4500 rpm.
This was causing havoc with the ecu, the mil light kept flashing as if trying to correct something, then came on constantly. This happened twice. After interigating the system I found that the same error was getting thrown up all the time.
After inspection of my cz unit the rpm mode was wired to the full rpm.
Installed the cz stage two map and the car seems to be running alot better.
Again the dyno is scheduled for thursday morning and I will find out if it is working and giving power gains.
Question for all CZ Tuners, would a half rpm map be uncompatable if the unit is wired up for full rpm??
If the unit works and gives some gains then I will tune it specifically to my car and my setup.
After this is acheived I am going to try and write up a how to tune your CZ Unit to your RX8. This is for the dummies like me who are new to this ecu tuning. It should be written so it is easily understood and should solve all the problems with the CZ Unit. Please note that by no way am I qualified to do this but It will be my goal to find out from the people in the know and bring all this knowledge together in one thread.
Hopefully it should help out the novices amongst us.
05-03-2005, 01:36 PM
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Half rpm map will not work for full rpm cz unit.
Half rpm map with half rpm unit
When the map (half rpm) said 3000 rpm. the half rpm unit will mod the 6000 rpm
Full/half Rpm map with full rpm unit
When the map (half rpm) said 3000 rpm. the full rpm unit will mod the 3000 rpm
please refer to https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=143
and the how to tune your CZ Unit please refer to
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...2&page=1&pp=15
they also talk about full rpm and half rpm different
Half rpm map with half rpm unit
When the map (half rpm) said 3000 rpm. the half rpm unit will mod the 6000 rpm
Full/half Rpm map with full rpm unit
When the map (half rpm) said 3000 rpm. the full rpm unit will mod the 3000 rpm
please refer to https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=143
and the how to tune your CZ Unit please refer to
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...2&page=1&pp=15
they also talk about full rpm and half rpm different
05-03-2005, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mcpheeg
Also some of us are running with the cz unit wired to the half rpm mode and the others are running with the cz unit running wired to the full rpm mode.
I was running prObers map, which by his own decleration is a half rpm map.
With this map I was finding hesitation through 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears. All where the ecu should have been stock. 2000-4500 rpm.
This was causing havoc with the ecu, the mil light kept flashing as if trying to correct something, then came on constantly. This happened twice. After interigating the system I found that the same error was getting thrown up all the time.
After inspection of my cz unit the rpm mode was wired to the full rpm.
Installed the cz stage two map and the car seems to be running alot better.
Again the dyno is scheduled for thursday morning and I will find out if it is working and giving power gains.
Question for all CZ Tuners, would a half rpm map be uncompatable if the unit is wired up for full rpm??
I was running prObers map, which by his own decleration is a half rpm map.
With this map I was finding hesitation through 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears. All where the ecu should have been stock. 2000-4500 rpm.
This was causing havoc with the ecu, the mil light kept flashing as if trying to correct something, then came on constantly. This happened twice. After interigating the system I found that the same error was getting thrown up all the time.
After inspection of my cz unit the rpm mode was wired to the full rpm.
Installed the cz stage two map and the car seems to be running alot better.
Again the dyno is scheduled for thursday morning and I will find out if it is working and giving power gains.
Question for all CZ Tuners, would a half rpm map be uncompatable if the unit is wired up for full rpm??
Well that explains a lot now...
To get my map to work or any half scal map you would need to double the rpm's on the map columns. Other then that they would be fine.
05-03-2005, 02:17 PM
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What I am looking for is an aggresive map to try out on the canzoomer unit, one that is meant to give big gains. I can use 95-98 octane fuel as standard so no issues there.
Does anyone have a working aggresive map.
Hopefully get this before dyno time, so that I can try both.
Car setup:- Reamimeya header
R Magic High Flowcat
Ogura lightened flywheel
Ogura racing clutch
Custom cat back setup
CZ unit
Free flow Blitz copy universal air filter
Does anyone have a working aggresive map.
Hopefully get this before dyno time, so that I can try both.
Car setup:- Reamimeya header
R Magic High Flowcat
Ogura lightened flywheel
Ogura racing clutch
Custom cat back setup
CZ unit
Free flow Blitz copy universal air filter
Last edited by mcpheeg; 05-03-2005 at 02:20 PM.
05-03-2005, 02:36 PM
#15
site is down...and Jason hasn't been around much?
Nemisis had an old copy on his server...link was posted last couple of days
http://www.hausers.com/nemesis8/Tyra...the%20RX-8.htm
Nemisis had an old copy on his server...link was posted last couple of days
http://www.hausers.com/nemesis8/Tyra...the%20RX-8.htm
Last edited by dannobre; 05-03-2005 at 02:57 PM.
05-03-2005, 02:41 PM
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https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=143
the link is in this post (above url)
try this web site... It is from Jason and thanks to Nemisis to host it
fixed
the link is in this post (above url)
try this web site... It is from Jason and thanks to Nemisis to host it
fixed
Last edited by nhk; 05-03-2005 at 02:53 PM.
05-03-2005, 05:46 PM
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I was thinking (if you didn't already do it) you should pull the battery cable off and pump the brakes a couple of times to reset the computer as it probably tried to learn something screwed up from my map
05-03-2005, 06:14 PM
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Okay I have read through Jason's Page.
Extremely helpful, BUT it doesn't explain about advance and retared timing.
Would one of you Gurus who I have come to depend upon like to throw a little light on this subject.
Jason says that the higher the number in the airflow chart the less fuel you use. Fine I get that. The leaner the more power.
But what does the advance retard do? When do I know when to alter this?
You guys are really on the ball with the RX8's across there.
Here in Scotland, you buy one, then have to run it stock from Mazda. No rotary tuners across here, which means no soddin help.
Many Thanks to you guys for helping me out on this subject.
Extremely helpful, BUT it doesn't explain about advance and retared timing.
Would one of you Gurus who I have come to depend upon like to throw a little light on this subject.
Jason says that the higher the number in the airflow chart the less fuel you use. Fine I get that. The leaner the more power.
But what does the advance retard do? When do I know when to alter this?
You guys are really on the ball with the RX8's across there.
Here in Scotland, you buy one, then have to run it stock from Mazda. No rotary tuners across here, which means no soddin help.
Many Thanks to you guys for helping me out on this subject.
05-03-2005, 06:38 PM
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Advance your timing will increase the chances to get detonation if bad gas is used (low octane).
Since myself also dunno the answer to "What is the advantages of advancing the timing?", I mod only the Air flow map only using Stage II based Map (leave the ignition map alone for my case).
In addition, I will try to target the ignition adv showed on canscan at 30 degree like stock map.
When the engine detacted there is possibility on detonation, it will retarded the ignition adv
check this out.
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...3&page=3&pp=15
Btw I am not sure about the leaner the A/F, the more the power it produce
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...1&page=3&pp=15 (post 33-34)
when the car hit 206, the A/F only 12.4 ... I am still in the experiment stage. and btw currently I am waitiing to get my canscan repaired
hav fun with tunning.
Since myself also dunno the answer to "What is the advantages of advancing the timing?", I mod only the Air flow map only using Stage II based Map (leave the ignition map alone for my case).
In addition, I will try to target the ignition adv showed on canscan at 30 degree like stock map.
When the engine detacted there is possibility on detonation, it will retarded the ignition adv
check this out.
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...3&page=3&pp=15
Btw I am not sure about the leaner the A/F, the more the power it produce
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...1&page=3&pp=15 (post 33-34)
when the car hit 206, the A/F only 12.4 ... I am still in the experiment stage. and btw currently I am waitiing to get my canscan repaired
hav fun with tunning.
Last edited by nhk; 05-03-2005 at 06:43 PM.
05-03-2005, 07:23 PM
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I may have stumbled across the answer on a ford forum, Increase advance the peak torque moves down the RPM range.
Increase retard add more top end speed.
It seems like a trade off. You get more grunt at the cost of top end speed if the engine is advanced.
You get more top end speed and less grunt if it is retarded.
Hope this helps and if anyone wants to correct me on this feel free. Like I said it was on a ford website.
Increase retard add more top end speed.
It seems like a trade off. You get more grunt at the cost of top end speed if the engine is advanced.
You get more top end speed and less grunt if it is retarded.
Hope this helps and if anyone wants to correct me on this feel free. Like I said it was on a ford website.
05-04-2005, 12:20 AM
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Just a quick thought about the target Air fuel ratio.
If Trying to achieve target air fuel will this not mean that the car is running at optium fuel economy. If trying to acheive max power the car would need to run richer. More fuel to burn more power.
Again pls feel free to comment on this, if I am wrong then pls say so.
If Trying to achieve target air fuel will this not mean that the car is running at optium fuel economy. If trying to acheive max power the car would need to run richer. More fuel to burn more power.
Again pls feel free to comment on this, if I am wrong then pls say so.
05-04-2005, 12:35 AM
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thanks for sharing. My future experiment
I am thinking to tune my map to get 13.2 -13.5 (a/f) around 6k->7.4k then 12.4 -12.6 (a/f) for 7.5k -> 8.6k.
I will start tuning again next week (hope to get my canscan this thursday)