Stage number explainations
06-02-2004, 02:43 PM
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We are just learning how it works right now. Once we understand that I will post what you can and can't do with it. We've already learned the SD card is "specially formatted" (I think). Can't see it on a computer or write to it. Oh, and my comment that it was hard to remove was bogus. Just had to press on it and it popped out. I'm old! 
We're going to start working with it this afternoon. Once we understand it a bit better we can ship them with confidence.
You need a Stage 1 box to use it, for starters. To get maps on it we may have to program a Stage 1 with the desired map and then upload it to the card. To get the three maps we may have to do this three times. It's really intended that you create the map using the Stage 3 electronics and save them.
So, bottom line is they can start shipping as soon as we confirm their operation.
We're going to start working with it this afternoon. Once we understand it a bit better we can ship them with confidence.
You need a Stage 1 box to use it, for starters. To get maps on it we may have to program a Stage 1 with the desired map and then upload it to the card. To get the three maps we may have to do this three times. It's really intended that you create the map using the Stage 3 electronics and save them.
So, bottom line is they can start shipping as soon as we confirm their operation.
06-02-2004, 03:00 PM
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It's only available in gray, I'm afraid. We do offer the Nav tray. It's a lot of work to install that tray, and I personally would just use velcro to mount it (so it can be hidden when you park in a questionable area). The nav tray was the intended mount method.
06-03-2004, 11:08 PM
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An update. Played with the unit in Maurice's car today. It works as advertised, though at first we got lost in the menus. Will do some more testing tomorrow. We got the unit to see RPM and the throttle position. That's a good sign. Appears to be very straightforward.
Maurice has run a "USB extender cable" from the PCM box into the cab (using a hole he made in the passenger foot area). He uses that with his laptop to tune - wideband and Stage 1 box feed into the laptop and record data. He also has his pyrometer cables there.
Anyway, I just plugged a USB A/B cable into the extender cable, and wired the Stage 3 power cable to a cig. lighter adaptor for testing purposes. I also hooked up the RPM output from the Stage 1 box to the Stage 3 cable.
We still want to confirm exactly what the unit does with the map in the Stage 1 box - we think it will only overwrite it if you tell it to, but better safe than disaster!
See, the way the Stage 1 box works is there is "flash memory" in it, and that memory contents is transferred to RAM when you start up. The box runs off the contents of the RAM. When you plug in the Stage 3 module, it reads the map in its' SD card and loads that to the Stage 1 RAM.
If you have the programming cable and a laptop, when you start up with the program running, the map loaded into the program is loaded into the Stage 1 RAM. That's why it's important to make sure you load a suitable map when you do this.
We read the map in the Stage 1 box with the Stage 3 and then saved it to the SD card as our first operation. This is the only safe way to proceed. We did this without starting the engine - just had the ignition switch turned on. I suspect if the engine was idling it would have been ok, as the Stage 1 box has no effect until you go above idle.
Maybe now you are beginning to see why we are a little nervous supplying this to those not conversant with computer technology and car technology. I suspect we will load a suitable map to each unit before we ship it.
When will they be available? Perhaps as soon as next week when Maurice gets back.
Yes, I get to play with his car when he's gone
. It was interesting to drive it home from the airport. Quite a change from my 3rd gen RX-7. Very deceptive speed wise.
Maurice has run a "USB extender cable" from the PCM box into the cab (using a hole he made in the passenger foot area). He uses that with his laptop to tune - wideband and Stage 1 box feed into the laptop and record data. He also has his pyrometer cables there.
Anyway, I just plugged a USB A/B cable into the extender cable, and wired the Stage 3 power cable to a cig. lighter adaptor for testing purposes. I also hooked up the RPM output from the Stage 1 box to the Stage 3 cable.
We still want to confirm exactly what the unit does with the map in the Stage 1 box - we think it will only overwrite it if you tell it to, but better safe than disaster!
See, the way the Stage 1 box works is there is "flash memory" in it, and that memory contents is transferred to RAM when you start up. The box runs off the contents of the RAM. When you plug in the Stage 3 module, it reads the map in its' SD card and loads that to the Stage 1 RAM.
If you have the programming cable and a laptop, when you start up with the program running, the map loaded into the program is loaded into the Stage 1 RAM. That's why it's important to make sure you load a suitable map when you do this.
We read the map in the Stage 1 box with the Stage 3 and then saved it to the SD card as our first operation. This is the only safe way to proceed. We did this without starting the engine - just had the ignition switch turned on. I suspect if the engine was idling it would have been ok, as the Stage 1 box has no effect until you go above idle.
Maybe now you are beginning to see why we are a little nervous supplying this to those not conversant with computer technology and car technology. I suspect we will load a suitable map to each unit before we ship it.
When will they be available? Perhaps as soon as next week when Maurice gets back.
Yes, I get to play with his car when he's gone
. It was interesting to drive it home from the airport. Quite a change from my 3rd gen RX-7. Very deceptive speed wise.
06-04-2004, 07:28 PM
#31
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Stage 2 install
Installed stage 2 and cat today. Major disappointments.
Currently have Borla and K&N. Did a Dyno Pull yielded 176.2 max hp at wheels.
Added the Cat and Mid pipe with resonator - Dyno pull - 190.74
Installed CZ2 and got 172.7. Had two units so we pulled first and installed second unit. Pulled 187.1 HP.
Observations: A/f ration definately higher, but seat of the pants show little gain. Idle lower and rougher. Quality of cat and midpipe not great. Had to use sealant to stop leaks. I can't remember if it was the cat or resonator that hit the bottom of car. Could't install straps from original exhaust due to resonator being too big.
Add all of above to not getting HP gains leaves me a very unhappy person. Pettit racing did the install and we will try next week to re-map. My feelings are that CZ should have a product that works out of the box. I don't want to pay for his development. When I had my 97 M3 programed, it worked - period. I only wish Jim Conforti (the shark) did rotary cars.
At this point I am almost convinced that the way to go is High Flow cat and light flywheel. Pettit installed a Mazda Speed Flywheel on a car several weeks ago and with a Borla and k&n pulled 195 on their dyno. The Hi Flow Cat should take it over 200 without touching the ECU.
Thoughts anyone.
Currently have Borla and K&N. Did a Dyno Pull yielded 176.2 max hp at wheels.
Added the Cat and Mid pipe with resonator - Dyno pull - 190.74
Installed CZ2 and got 172.7. Had two units so we pulled first and installed second unit. Pulled 187.1 HP.
Observations: A/f ration definately higher, but seat of the pants show little gain. Idle lower and rougher. Quality of cat and midpipe not great. Had to use sealant to stop leaks. I can't remember if it was the cat or resonator that hit the bottom of car. Could't install straps from original exhaust due to resonator being too big.
Add all of above to not getting HP gains leaves me a very unhappy person. Pettit racing did the install and we will try next week to re-map. My feelings are that CZ should have a product that works out of the box. I don't want to pay for his development. When I had my 97 M3 programed, it worked - period. I only wish Jim Conforti (the shark) did rotary cars.
At this point I am almost convinced that the way to go is High Flow cat and light flywheel. Pettit installed a Mazda Speed Flywheel on a car several weeks ago and with a Borla and k&n pulled 195 on their dyno. The Hi Flow Cat should take it over 200 without touching the ECU.
Thoughts anyone.
06-05-2004, 11:08 AM
#33
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I did get an e-mail from Maurice replying to one sent directly to him. He is in Taiwan, but said he would help correct any problem. Time will tell. What bothers me is that I will be paying Pettit Racing to tune his ECU.
One other comment - the new cat and midpipe are loud. Hate to add the extra weight back on, but I might take the borla off.
One other comment - the new cat and midpipe are loud. Hate to add the extra weight back on, but I might take the borla off.
06-05-2004, 10:00 PM
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Jay, did you get the "M" flash or do you have and earlier flash. I'm concerned because I ordered the exact same thing and it is due to be shipped put 7/6/04. I know it's hot as hell right now, so I don't know if thats causing some reduction in timing or if you need to drive the car a few miles to get it to kick in. Unfortunately those numbers are not good, and compare with a stock RX8.
06-05-2004, 11:02 PM
#36
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Borla loud
Originally posted by Jay Goldfarb
One other comment - the new cat and midpipe are loud. Hate to add the extra weight back on, but I might take the borla off.
One other comment - the new cat and midpipe are loud. Hate to add the extra weight back on, but I might take the borla off.
06-06-2004, 11:39 AM
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I've been "holding my tongue" here, and will continue to do so. Please read carefully the first post in this thread, particularly the intent of "Stage 2" and requirements to run "Stage 2".
One thing that hasn't been stated - our bad - is that the "Stage 2" package doesn't come with a special stage 2 map - it comes with the "Stage 1 production map" - optimized for the "M" flash. Stage 2 requires tuning for each car it is installed in because it takes you to the edge, and the cars vary enough that we cannot supply a suitable map (yet). Hence, the statement that Stage 2 is not out yet is correct - you can buy the hardware but it is set up as Stage 1 and will run detuned due to the freer flowing exhaust.
Hence, power may suffer.
Can we do a "Stage 2" map that will work in any car? Time will tell.
As for progress on "Stage 3", we have found a few things we need to resolve before shipping. They shouldn't take very long, perhaps a week or two. The darn computer is doing what it was told to do, not what we wanted it to!
One thing that hasn't been stated - our bad - is that the "Stage 2" package doesn't come with a special stage 2 map - it comes with the "Stage 1 production map" - optimized for the "M" flash. Stage 2 requires tuning for each car it is installed in because it takes you to the edge, and the cars vary enough that we cannot supply a suitable map (yet). Hence, the statement that Stage 2 is not out yet is correct - you can buy the hardware but it is set up as Stage 1 and will run detuned due to the freer flowing exhaust.
Hence, power may suffer.
Can we do a "Stage 2" map that will work in any car? Time will tell.
As for progress on "Stage 3", we have found a few things we need to resolve before shipping. They shouldn't take very long, perhaps a week or two. The darn computer is doing what it was told to do, not what we wanted it to!
Last edited by RX-8 friend; 06-06-2004 at 11:45 AM.
06-06-2004, 04:51 PM
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Thanks For the clarification RX8 friend. I was under the impression that a stage 2 map was available. If I understand correctly the stage 2 will not be as good as per say the stage 1.1 with and "M" flashed car due to it not being fine tuned. Would a decent tuner shop find it easy to fine tune your set-up? and would it be more beneficial to utilize the free flow cat mid-pipe/resonator with the stage 1.1 and "M" flashed car? Thanks as I'm wondering if I should change my order and save the money on the cat and md-pipe/resonator.
06-06-2004, 07:29 PM
#39
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First to answer Jim W's question - I have had both the L and M flashes.
RX friend: When I first contacted Maurice I was led to believe the the Stage 2 was a plug and play. Not something that needed further development. Nothing was ever told to me or to Tyler at Pettit Racing/Excellent Performance who combined his and my purchase together. As a consumer it is really disturbing to be given misinformation. To add insult to injury look at the length of time for delivery. Than I receive an cat and midpipe that don't have proper fit (leaks at both ends), poor quality and a dent in the midpipe.
Than we get a lose of power when plugged in - I am at a loss for words. I hope you and Maurice can get your stuff right real soon or you will be losing customers at a fast rate.
Sorry to all for my venting, but sometimes you just have to and since RX8 friend and Maurice both read these I hope the message will get out fast.
RX friend: When I first contacted Maurice I was led to believe the the Stage 2 was a plug and play. Not something that needed further development. Nothing was ever told to me or to Tyler at Pettit Racing/Excellent Performance who combined his and my purchase together. As a consumer it is really disturbing to be given misinformation. To add insult to injury look at the length of time for delivery. Than I receive an cat and midpipe that don't have proper fit (leaks at both ends), poor quality and a dent in the midpipe.
Than we get a lose of power when plugged in - I am at a loss for words. I hope you and Maurice can get your stuff right real soon or you will be losing customers at a fast rate.
Sorry to all for my venting, but sometimes you just have to and since RX8 friend and Maurice both read these I hope the message will get out fast.
06-06-2004, 10:08 PM
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Well, when you talked to Maurice six months ago, it was intended that Stage 2 would be "plug and play". These things don't always work out. Now stage 1 is being taken as far as it can go "plug and play". As for quality of the exhaust components, most are happy. As Maurice appearantly said, we will fix any problems that came up in that area.
As for whether the high-flow cat and resonator are suitable for Stage 1, Maurice has used it without any problems. Even when he had the Greddy exhaust. Others have it with the Borla and are reasonably happy (except for the increased noise).
Maurice also has created a "Stage 2" level tune for his car - we're pretty sure it wouldn't work for most other cars due to the variations in sensors. Hence, we aren't going to release it. At this time anyone wishing to go to that power level will need to have the car tuned. Most cars are like that. Some use high enough quality components that one tune will work for all of them. This, appearantly is not one of those cars!
Because the cars do vary, tuning may be necessary in some cases. The Stage 1 is easy to tune, any competant shop can do it. A wideband O2 sensor is recommended. Otherwise you are just guessing. With the programming cable, program, and a laptop computer the unit can be tuned.
We have had a few customers (of Stage 1) whose car was so different the unit was deemed unsuitable (by the owner). They returned the unit and got their money back. We believe we know why they have problems (one is local and we are working with him). We are close to a fix for this - it's a variation in the MAF sensors.
While Jay has a right to feel "done wrong", please be assured it was not intentional, and the problems will be fixed.
As for whether the high-flow cat and resonator are suitable for Stage 1, Maurice has used it without any problems. Even when he had the Greddy exhaust. Others have it with the Borla and are reasonably happy (except for the increased noise).
Maurice also has created a "Stage 2" level tune for his car - we're pretty sure it wouldn't work for most other cars due to the variations in sensors. Hence, we aren't going to release it. At this time anyone wishing to go to that power level will need to have the car tuned. Most cars are like that. Some use high enough quality components that one tune will work for all of them. This, appearantly is not one of those cars!
Because the cars do vary, tuning may be necessary in some cases. The Stage 1 is easy to tune, any competant shop can do it. A wideband O2 sensor is recommended. Otherwise you are just guessing. With the programming cable, program, and a laptop computer the unit can be tuned.
We have had a few customers (of Stage 1) whose car was so different the unit was deemed unsuitable (by the owner). They returned the unit and got their money back. We believe we know why they have problems (one is local and we are working with him). We are close to a fix for this - it's a variation in the MAF sensors.
While Jay has a right to feel "done wrong", please be assured it was not intentional, and the problems will be fixed.
06-06-2004, 10:11 PM
#41
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Could a variation in MAF sensors be responsible for varying MPG rates also?
Originally posted by RX-8 friend
Well, when you talked to Maurice six months ago, it was intended that Stage 2 would be "plug and play". These things don't always work out. Now stage 1 is being taken as far as it can go "plug and play". As for quality of the exhaust components, most are happy. As Maurice appearantly said, we will fix any problems that came up in that area.
As for whether the high-flow cat and resonator are suitable for Stage 1, Maurice has used it without any problems. Even when he had the Greddy exhaust. Others have it with the Borla and are reasonably happy (except for the increased noise).
Maurice also has created a "Stage 2" level tune for his car - we're pretty sure it wouldn't work for most other cars due to the variations in sensors. Hence, we aren't going to release it. At this time anyone wishing to go to that power level will need to have the car tuned. Most cars are like that. Some use high enough quality components that one tune will work for all of them. This, appearantly is not one of those cars!
Because the cars do vary, tuning may be necessary in some cases. The Stage 1 is easy to tune, any competant shop can do it. A wideband O2 sensor is recommended. Otherwise you are just guessing. With the programming cable, program, and a laptop computer the unit can be tuned.
We have had a few customers (of Stage 1) whose car was so different the unit was deemed unsuitable (by the owner). They returned the unit and got their money back. We believe we know why they have problems (one is local and we are working with him). We are close to a fix for this - it's a variation in the MAF sensors.
While Jay has a right to feel "done wrong", please be assured it was not intentional, and the problems will be fixed.
Well, when you talked to Maurice six months ago, it was intended that Stage 2 would be "plug and play". These things don't always work out. Now stage 1 is being taken as far as it can go "plug and play". As for quality of the exhaust components, most are happy. As Maurice appearantly said, we will fix any problems that came up in that area.
As for whether the high-flow cat and resonator are suitable for Stage 1, Maurice has used it without any problems. Even when he had the Greddy exhaust. Others have it with the Borla and are reasonably happy (except for the increased noise).
Maurice also has created a "Stage 2" level tune for his car - we're pretty sure it wouldn't work for most other cars due to the variations in sensors. Hence, we aren't going to release it. At this time anyone wishing to go to that power level will need to have the car tuned. Most cars are like that. Some use high enough quality components that one tune will work for all of them. This, appearantly is not one of those cars!
Because the cars do vary, tuning may be necessary in some cases. The Stage 1 is easy to tune, any competant shop can do it. A wideband O2 sensor is recommended. Otherwise you are just guessing. With the programming cable, program, and a laptop computer the unit can be tuned.
We have had a few customers (of Stage 1) whose car was so different the unit was deemed unsuitable (by the owner). They returned the unit and got their money back. We believe we know why they have problems (one is local and we are working with him). We are close to a fix for this - it's a variation in the MAF sensors.
While Jay has a right to feel "done wrong", please be assured it was not intentional, and the problems will be fixed.
06-06-2004, 10:26 PM
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Yes, and the O2 sensor and TPS also vary a bit from car to car. I'm pretty sure Mazda will not do anything about it either. They are "within spec", but do change the A/F a bit.
I guess it's a relaxed spec. they use. Another reason the car is so reasonably priced.
Driver technique has a larger effect. Also weather, altitude, and I'm sure other things we haven't discovered yet.
Also, many owners are tempted to "improve" the intake, change the air filter, etc. These all change the way the car reacts, and could put it outside its' ability to compensate. For an example of subtle changes, have a look at the rubber intake hose that leads from the air filter box to the throttle assy. There is a small resonator on the left side of it (plastic box). Loosen the hose clamp and remove it and see if it's got oil inside. Maurice's was half full when I checked it a month ago. I bet that has an effect!
I guess it's a relaxed spec. they use. Another reason the car is so reasonably priced.
Driver technique has a larger effect. Also weather, altitude, and I'm sure other things we haven't discovered yet.
Also, many owners are tempted to "improve" the intake, change the air filter, etc. These all change the way the car reacts, and could put it outside its' ability to compensate. For an example of subtle changes, have a look at the rubber intake hose that leads from the air filter box to the throttle assy. There is a small resonator on the left side of it (plastic box). Loosen the hose clamp and remove it and see if it's got oil inside. Maurice's was half full when I checked it a month ago. I bet that has an effect!
06-06-2004, 11:17 PM
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Not that its any of my business...yet (I'm still only a prospective customer) but from what has been written, the "stage 2" hardware with the latest stage 1 map and the M-flash *should* work somewhat better even than the stage 1/M-flash/everything else stock configuration. Right? So all of this may explain a less-than-hoped-for result out of the box, but not the power loss that Jay's apparently seeing.
jds
jds
Originally posted by RX-8 friend
I've been "holding my tongue" here, and will continue to do so. Please read carefully the first post in this thread, particularly the intent of "Stage 2" and requirements to run "Stage 2".
One thing that hasn't been stated - our bad - is that the "Stage 2" package doesn't come with a special stage 2 map - it comes with the "Stage 1 production map" - optimized for the "M" flash. Stage 2 requires tuning for each car it is installed in because it takes you to the edge, and the cars vary enough that we cannot supply a suitable map (yet). Hence, the statement that Stage 2 is not out yet is correct - you can buy the hardware but it is set up as Stage 1 and will run detuned due to the freer flowing exhaust.
Hence, power may suffer.
Can we do a "Stage 2" map that will work in any car? Time will tell.
As for progress on "Stage 3", we have found a few things we need to resolve before shipping. They shouldn't take very long, perhaps a week or two. The darn computer is doing what it was told to do, not what we wanted it to!
I've been "holding my tongue" here, and will continue to do so. Please read carefully the first post in this thread, particularly the intent of "Stage 2" and requirements to run "Stage 2".
One thing that hasn't been stated - our bad - is that the "Stage 2" package doesn't come with a special stage 2 map - it comes with the "Stage 1 production map" - optimized for the "M" flash. Stage 2 requires tuning for each car it is installed in because it takes you to the edge, and the cars vary enough that we cannot supply a suitable map (yet). Hence, the statement that Stage 2 is not out yet is correct - you can buy the hardware but it is set up as Stage 1 and will run detuned due to the freer flowing exhaust.
Hence, power may suffer.
Can we do a "Stage 2" map that will work in any car? Time will tell.
As for progress on "Stage 3", we have found a few things we need to resolve before shipping. They shouldn't take very long, perhaps a week or two. The darn computer is doing what it was told to do, not what we wanted it to!
06-07-2004, 10:22 AM
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I'm sure any way that you set up a car (when it comes to ENGINE performance) It all boils down to how the ECU (if you have one) controls ignition timing and A/F. Seeing as how the folks at mazda set the car up to begin with, I doubt that the ECU enjoys you 'toying' with components dealing with airflow, temperature and exhaust. If you were to get a midpipe and resonator WITHOUT canzoomer I'm sure you would be able to tell the difference. However installing a piggyback ecu without having it configured properly to YOUR vehicle along w/ the midpipe and resonator might garner results that are debatable. I believe that the ignition timing and the fuel maps contribute heavily towards whether or not you are experiencing performance gains OR losses at different rpm ranges (reread this line so i won't be misquoted). Mazda's ECU does some very interesting things in terms of airflow and how much fuel it's dumping in order to keep emissions and temperatures at the recommended level. Notice how I said 'interesting' and not 'smart'. What you need to see is that Maurice is trying to make a unit that not only is plug an play but offers as much as possible in terms of performance/mileage gains for AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE. This unit has a predetermined fuel map and stage three will allow you to program your own map. Stage 2 is the most diffucult because it changes the most parameters without Maurice being there to be able to monitor how those changes take effect. I don't think many people can appreciate the hard work and intellect that goes into this particular product. If you think about how many stages of flash there are and how the canzoomer unit is in constant evolution, you should be thankful (should you choose to buy one) and optimistic, rather than bitter and uninformed. Remember that this company was started by a dissatisfied rx-8 owner. Ironic how someone who has so much in common with you just ends up being the next easy target. But that's just my opinion... Feel free to take a shot at me if you like as well.
06-07-2004, 01:19 PM
#45
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LYFK
I you read my posting carefully, I only took the shots at Maurice and Company due to being mislead. When the units were ordered we were told that they would be plug and play. I was told that and Tyler from Pettit Racing was told the same. Never during any of our numerious conversations with them were we informed of the change in their plans in regard to stage 2. Quality issues with the midpipe and cat are being addressed directly with Random Technology and they seem to be responding well.
This really comes down to someone who did not inform the people who had orders for a certain product that the specs were being changed. Communications goes a long way.
Now, I have a decision to make. Due to Random Tech's response and the 18HP increase I will keep that unit. Do I keep the CZ ECU and have Pettit try to tweek it and than risk riding on the edge as RX8 Friend responded or does it go back and I wait for Pettit's Supercharger that will most definately will add power. They are within two months max from selling the unit. I will make that decision in the next day or two. I have driven Pettits car and they still have development to do. But I was really impressed.
One other thought as to your post - Maurice is not toughing as far as I have been informed the ignition timing. He is only doing fuel mapping and injectors may be the problem as far as getting the most out of these cards.
See, I can comment and not flame anyone. I just like being an informed consumer and getting what I expect.
I you read my posting carefully, I only took the shots at Maurice and Company due to being mislead. When the units were ordered we were told that they would be plug and play. I was told that and Tyler from Pettit Racing was told the same. Never during any of our numerious conversations with them were we informed of the change in their plans in regard to stage 2. Quality issues with the midpipe and cat are being addressed directly with Random Technology and they seem to be responding well.
This really comes down to someone who did not inform the people who had orders for a certain product that the specs were being changed. Communications goes a long way.
Now, I have a decision to make. Due to Random Tech's response and the 18HP increase I will keep that unit. Do I keep the CZ ECU and have Pettit try to tweek it and than risk riding on the edge as RX8 Friend responded or does it go back and I wait for Pettit's Supercharger that will most definately will add power. They are within two months max from selling the unit. I will make that decision in the next day or two. I have driven Pettits car and they still have development to do. But I was really impressed.
One other thought as to your post - Maurice is not toughing as far as I have been informed the ignition timing. He is only doing fuel mapping and injectors may be the problem as far as getting the most out of these cards.
See, I can comment and not flame anyone. I just like being an informed consumer and getting what I expect.
06-07-2004, 04:42 PM
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LYFK I don't know who you're responding to in that post, but when I read "should you choose to buy one" I assumed it was me. Then again, I don't FEEL bitter and uninformed, but what do I know?
It has been said in the past that you would realize SOME of the gains to be had with a midpipe with the stage 1, but to fully realize it you would need the stage 2 programming, whoever ends up doing the tweaking. None of this implies to my bitter and uninformed self that I should expect a power LOSS in this configuration, and I would bet money that neither CZ nor RX-8 Friend expect that either. I'm just trying to get some clarity here about what they expect to see with various configurations. I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to do that.
jds
It has been said in the past that you would realize SOME of the gains to be had with a midpipe with the stage 1, but to fully realize it you would need the stage 2 programming, whoever ends up doing the tweaking. None of this implies to my bitter and uninformed self that I should expect a power LOSS in this configuration, and I would bet money that neither CZ nor RX-8 Friend expect that either. I'm just trying to get some clarity here about what they expect to see with various configurations. I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to do that.
jds
06-07-2004, 06:31 PM
#47
Registered User
JDS:
It seems us South Florida residents are the bad guys. Why should be expect to be right. Hell, I come from a county that is famous for hanging chads. I became famous for being the person who received borrowed copies of the vote recount to make copies for the Republican Parties attorneys.
He was coming back at me due to my experience with the stage 2 and the total misunderstanding of what we were getting. I wish I could find the description of products from the CZ website to see if it changed from January when I ordered mine and what is now posted there. I bet it has changed. I guess you are having problems like me. Tomorrow I will make up my mind about keeping the unit or not. As I said in an earlier post, I will keep the cat and midpipe. 18 hp gain. PM me with where you are in South Florida.
Jay Goldarb
It seems us South Florida residents are the bad guys. Why should be expect to be right. Hell, I come from a county that is famous for hanging chads. I became famous for being the person who received borrowed copies of the vote recount to make copies for the Republican Parties attorneys.
He was coming back at me due to my experience with the stage 2 and the total misunderstanding of what we were getting. I wish I could find the description of products from the CZ website to see if it changed from January when I ordered mine and what is now posted there. I bet it has changed. I guess you are having problems like me. Tomorrow I will make up my mind about keeping the unit or not. As I said in an earlier post, I will keep the cat and midpipe. 18 hp gain. PM me with where you are in South Florida.
Jay Goldarb
06-07-2004, 06:39 PM
#48
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Technically I didn't respond to anyone in particular, but it's good to see that you guys are reading, cuz I sure wasn't. I've been sitting next to RX8 friend for about 3 weeks now building these things and i get to hear all about the posts on the forum. I also get to chat with Maurice on occasion just to get some insight as to where his progress is on current maps and what his plans are on the future of Canzoomer. Sure I can see how people view the CZ unit as having shortcomings, but I also know the lengths to which Maurice is going to appease as many people as possible. Alas, everyone has an opinion, including me. In my opinion the CZ unit is great for the simplicity and the price. It just so happens that i believe that the rx8 is a car that is quite advanced and requires a lot of time tuning, especially when you consider how complex the ecu is. Tuning towards the edge of the envelope requires that much more scrutiny and although I have little to no experience with it, I can't imagine that it comes overnight (although i guess with maurice's brain you never know). I'm afraid I shouldn't comment on power loss vs. power gain because i think it all depends on where you're experiencing either one in the rpm range. There are those who prefer an everyday driveable car and those who would like to run a 9000rpm screamer.
As far as communication goes, there probably was every intention to make stage 2 plug and play but over time it probably proved to be more difficult than originally thought. Every car is unique especially in terms of the performance envelope. That is not to say that stage 2 is a write-off, in my opinion it's more difficult to make it plug and play without any driver feedback. Maybe Maurice played with ignition advance on his car only, sorry if my memory is shotty.
And as far as clarity goes, I believe I didn't call anyone in specific bitter and uninformed, but if you'd like to get defensive about it, then you have my apologies. You have to admit that there are people who have not informed themselves to what kind of product this is, only that horsepower gain is horsepower gain, plain and simple. I just can't agree to that statement. Notice me again not pointing any fingers...
I can see skepticism when I read it and I can see disappointed when I read it. I've been working my tail off for 3 weeks and I'm sure that my effort is probably half that of Rx8friend and CZ. I believe in these guys and I wouldn't be working here if I didn't. I think if you were in my shoes you'd feel the same way. But then again, you aren't. You are a consumer (or prospective consumer) and you have every right to want and expect the best from any performance related part on the market. I guess a forum is the best place to determine who the best are. Best of luck to ya, I wish I had the money...
As far as communication goes, there probably was every intention to make stage 2 plug and play but over time it probably proved to be more difficult than originally thought. Every car is unique especially in terms of the performance envelope. That is not to say that stage 2 is a write-off, in my opinion it's more difficult to make it plug and play without any driver feedback. Maybe Maurice played with ignition advance on his car only, sorry if my memory is shotty.
And as far as clarity goes, I believe I didn't call anyone in specific bitter and uninformed, but if you'd like to get defensive about it, then you have my apologies. You have to admit that there are people who have not informed themselves to what kind of product this is, only that horsepower gain is horsepower gain, plain and simple. I just can't agree to that statement. Notice me again not pointing any fingers...
I can see skepticism when I read it and I can see disappointed when I read it. I've been working my tail off for 3 weeks and I'm sure that my effort is probably half that of Rx8friend and CZ. I believe in these guys and I wouldn't be working here if I didn't. I think if you were in my shoes you'd feel the same way. But then again, you aren't. You are a consumer (or prospective consumer) and you have every right to want and expect the best from any performance related part on the market. I guess a forum is the best place to determine who the best are. Best of luck to ya, I wish I had the money...
06-07-2004, 10:44 PM
#49
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The Stage 1/2 unit currently controls both A/F and timing. We made that change a while ago (and offered free updates to owners of the original unit).
Yup, we have had a few cars that didn't respond well to the unit. Some had pinging problems, some went the other way (too rich). Most appear happy. New maps are coming. We keep trying to improve the thing.
Note that Pettit's supercharger will also use a unit similar to ours to control A/F and timing. It will also require tuning. Pettit knows their stuff! Good place to go to have things done.
How much would they charge to tune the Stage 2?
Yup, we have had a few cars that didn't respond well to the unit. Some had pinging problems, some went the other way (too rich). Most appear happy. New maps are coming. We keep trying to improve the thing.
Note that Pettit's supercharger will also use a unit similar to ours to control A/F and timing. It will also require tuning. Pettit knows their stuff! Good place to go to have things done.
How much would they charge to tune the Stage 2?