RX-8 friend

There has been a lot of confusion as to what each product offers so here I will break it down sequentially for you. Current as of this date! We reserve the right to improve the product.

Stage 1 - the basic box.

Stage 1 is designed to give maximum safe power for casual use on the street. It can be turned off if desired for smog testing etc. You can run the highflow cat and resonator with Stage 1 if you desire, as well as an aftermarket Cat back exhaust, such as the Borla or Greddy. No map adjustments should be necessary for these exhaust modifications - there is enough "overhead" built into the maps that they should not cause a problem.

We are constantly researching and implementing improvements to this "basic box". So far these improvements have been "no charge" (other than shipping), but we may eventually have to charge for hardware upgrades. Software re-maps are free and if you purchase the programming cable and software there would be no shipping charges to send your module back to us for installation.

"The box" mounts in the plasic PCM/EPS box in the front right of the car (under the hood). No wires to cut, you just unplug three cables and plug them into the Stage 1 box and plug the Stage 1 three cables into where you unplugged the original three (see install instructions in this section). You also have to remove some other parts - again, see install instructions.

Programming Cable and program.

Optional at this point is the programming cable and program. It can be used with all stages. It allows you to update the map used in the box, as well as tune as you drive (using a laptop). Update maps will be available on our ftp server. Currently no charge for getting these. You can run a "USB extention cable" into the cab, if you like.
Beware, the "USB" like connector on the front of the Stage 1 box is not "USB" - you could burn out a USB port if you connected directly to it without using the programming cable.

Stage 2.

To go to Stage 2 (just a different map), you must add the highflow (high temp) cat and resonator (resonator so you keep your hearing). This is necessary as the Stage 2 map will melt the stock cat. Stage 2 is really intended for racing as it takes you to the edge. You should be familiar with tuning using a wideband O2 unit if you want to run Stage 2 maps. I guess I'm saying it's not for those unfamiliar with tuning an engine. That's one reason it's not for casual driving on the street. Some will use it anyway (sigh). A bad tank of gas will get you into trouble with this map!

Stage 3.

Stage 3 is the incab display/controller. It allows you to select from up to 3 maps (per SD 16 Meg ram module - they are removeable/replaceable), and you can display certain engine parameters on the display and change the map entries using just the display and remote controller. I provides you with a replacement for a laptop computer running the above programming software. Not as easy to use as the software because the screen is rather small, but easier to install than a laptop! It uses a "wired remote controller".

This requires running cables from the PCM/EPS box into the cab (USB size cable). You will also have to mount the display - we recommend the Nav tray intended for aftermarket navigation systems. Installing this requires removing the centre dash section and cutting out the template marked hole. For the "brave" only, I suppose. Dealers are supposed to be able to install this tray for you, so that's an option. The parts are small and light enough that you could mount them with "velcro" tape.

This will also allow you to tune/add hardware for boost or nitrous applications.

Fire away with questions!

Magic8

shouldn't this be a sticky?

RXhusker

RX-8 friend -- could you please clarify for us what adding the CZ midpipe/highflow cat to the Stage 1 box adds to the hp output. In otherwords -- does it make any sense to have the midpipe/cat if you don't go to Stage 2 or 3?

adrian-1

definitely "sticky" material.

Question: Lets say I get everything up to Stage3. [CZ unit, Hiflow cat / midpipe/ resonator, incab display.]
I could have 2 programs to switch between street or race. Use the Stage 1 map for normal street driving and switch to the Stage 2 map for race days (drag / race course) and do it quickly using the incab display? Correct?

Also, where can I find info on how to tune using a wideband O2 unit?

Speed Racer

With all of the recent changes it would be nice to get an estimate of power gains of stock versus Stage1 and Stage2.

smrx8

iTrader: (1)

Good question adrian that would be great ,switch from stage 1 to stage 2 from inside your car with a flick of a switch.

JimW

I would like to see some results as well for stage 2 regarding power advantages. With the Stage 2 map pushing it to the infamous edge, what would you recommend in a hot climate as well as sea level. If unleaded race gas or 93 octane with and octane booster were used, would it be o.k.? Would Redline water wetter or 40 below be used as and benificial aid in fighting detonation.

RX-8 friend

I'm told the high flow cat and resonator add 5-8 HP with Stage 1. The Greddy or Borla cat back adds 1-3 HP more, and makes the car noisier but 30 lbs lighter.

As we haven't done dyno measurements recently it's difficult to give accurate numbers for HP. I would estimate peak gains with Stage 1 to be in the 20-25 HP range and Stage 2 map adding an additional 20 HP peak. Stage 1 appears to take 1 sec. or so off 1/4 mile times. We haven't run "Stage 2" type maps for quite a while as we need to stabilize the stock air fuel variations or rather create a more efficient compensation method. We are working on that again tonight.

As for fuel, 93 octane definately. And it had better be good too. We can not recommend that map to beginners, as it requires knowledge on how to compensate for the slight variations from car to car.

From what we've seen water wetter isn't necessary in this car. The injectors also do not appear to be taxed at all in the RX-8. Lots of overhead room to inject more fuel. What does appear to be "marginal", is the coil packs. They seem to work just fine, but can be easily overheated. If they are they become troublesome (generate noise and sparks at inappropriate times).
Good thing they are not too expensive. Still, we may come up with some replacement units. They have a transistor built in, which is what becomes flaky. It isn't well heatsinked.

Speed Racer

Is there anyway to integrate a wideband sensor, such as the Bosch LSU-4, into the feedback loop to make the ECU more cognoscente of what is really going on?

weepul

How's everyone working with these things and the 4/50k warranty? I'd like to present the CZ stage 1 package to the leading service rep and tech at my local dealer to see if they'd let me use it and retain warranty, but what about everyone else?

Omicron

They won't... the ECU is too tied in to every engine function, so virtually anything that could go wrong with the engine could be blamed on it - whether it caused the problem or not.

In fact, I wouldn't even bring it up. If you do, you might as well give up on ever getting one, because they'll be looking for it.

JimW

I'm still a bit nervous about it being on edge. I know I'd be a lot happier with the extra 25 WHP vrs. stage 1, It might be good to take the map, once purchased, to and experienced tuner and dyno to safe parameters, whatever they may be. Any recommendations.

Omicron

So buy the Stage 1.1, and the midpipe/HF cat/resonator. This'll get you close to + 35 WHP.

JimW

Are you serious! I thought you had to have stage 2, to take advantage of the exhaust and mid-pipe. I guess I need to read up more.

davefzr

Canzoomer has been tuning his ECU mod with his own car which has the catback, hi-flow cat and mid pipe so to get the most out of stage 1 you would have to have these products as well.

RX-8 friend

Actually, he's -checking- the tuning to ensure it's safe with the high-flow cat, resonator and cat-back. The cat-back is being removed soon. Too noisy and not much gain over stock muffler. I suspect Maurice doesn't like the attention it attracts.

The Stage 1 tune is done to be safe with just about whatever you can do to the car (short of NOS or boost). Within reason, anyway.

The current high-flow cat is a 4". It can be overheated (melted over time periods of 4-6 months) with a stock ecu tune. We suspect the "L" or "M" flash would reduce this problem. Waiting for the 5" high flow cat, which, we are told, is able to handle a lot more heat and should last.

Omicron

Yep. 20-25 whp for stage 1.1, plus 8-10 whp for the hf cat = up to 35 whp.

JimW

Thanks Omicron. This might be enough H.P. to be happy with. I will wait for for more results and power ratings as Maurice works on his car with the same mods. Of course the more power, the better, so hopefully stage 2 will net reliable results in the future.

JimW

Umm, O.K. When will stage 2 be ready, or when can I order it along with the exhaust, mid-pipe, resonator and high flow cat?

GoBerserk

Do I have this right?
So the Stage3 can be used to modify and save up to 3 maps per memory module. This means fuel and spark maps for any application including forced induction?

One question is how does the Stage1/2 measure quantity of air? I guess it uses the stock MAF signal? So the MAPs are MAF vs RPM?

But for forced induction wouldn't it be better (or more convienient) to use MAP vs RPM; in which case one would need to install a MAP sensor.

The Stage3Pro includes a MAP sensor and seperate boost controller?

Also what's the max duty cycle % that the stock injectors see with stage1 and stage2? In other words how much more fuel can the stock injectors deliver?

Thanks for your help

Jake

RX-8 friend

We've seen very low duty cycles. I haven't looked recently, so I don't want to quote numbers from my dilapidated brain. Months ago I came to the conclusion the stock injectors could handle whatever boost the stock engine could stand.

For forced induction a MAP sensor would be required. We are looking into one that fits in the "Stage 1" module. You would then run a small tube to the intake tract. We would probably offer this as an update for "boost applications", but that hasn't been decided yet.

All these boost solutions will be resolved soon, as we are about to start messing with some of the kits coming to market.

Yes, three maps per 16 meg module. It's probably possible to have more with a bigger module (16 meg is about the smallest module around these days). Haven't tried it so not sure if the software would object or not.

Lufa

So why wont you guys post any more dyno's? I mean its been months since the "1.1" and L came out. We saw Maurice post on what the L flash does to fuel / air maps, but no follow up with what Stage 1 - 2 does to correct those, I realize you dont want to give a leg up to the competition, so a simple dyno for all of us who want to know the facts will suffice.

I know Omicron believes 20-25... I have seen some G-tech runs, they do not seem to be near that range of perfromance increase, we all know how unreliable GTechs are. And I am not talking about the people with the new stage one paired up with the older K flash.

I have been watching the forum pretty religiously, I don't think I missed it, and feel free to flame me to the ground if I did miss the new dyno. I am just a nerd who likes to see hard facts.

Am I the only one who needs to see a dyno plot prior to deciding to spend 5-6 hundred?

If so I will just go back to lurking here.

RX-8 friend

Just took pics of the Stage 3 module(s). The display is so light you could mount it with velcro tape. The display is plugged into the small box and it plugs into the Stage 1 box using the "USB" port and a "standard USB A/B cable" - looks to me like the type used for USB printers (does not come with the unit but we can supply if you like at competative prices). There is 12V power required and one wire needs to be run from the RPM pin on the Stage 1 box to a wire on the small box in the picture.

The cables can be run out the front of the PCM box under the hood, and you can drill a small hole on the passenger side firewall foot area to feed it through to the cab.

The remote shown is a "wired" type.

The unit can be programmed to audibly warn you of up to four parameters reaching critical values (Greddy gauge outputs).

It can display up to three parameters at a time in digital, graph, gauge, or bar graph format, including:
Boost pressure, RPM, analog input 1, analog input 2, pulse input 1, Pulse input 2,
throttle position, boost controller duty cycle, Stage 1 box airflow input signal, Stage 1 box modified output airflow,
Injector duration (ms), injector duty cycle (%), adjusted ignition timing.

You can display and mess with the airflow and ignition maps.

It can record up to 3 hours of input signals, and play them back on command.

It can also send a program to the Stage 1 box (write a map) and read a progam from the box. It stores up to three maps on the SD memory card. This appears to be a firmware limit, so a larger memory card may not help to store more maps. The card appears to not be easy to remove - perhaps for a reason.

RX-8 friend

So, go with the Stage 3 system or use a small PC? With a small PC (cost would be about $1000 compared to $450) you need a USB extender cable, the programming cable, and the program.

PC advantages:
Keyboard to enter data.
Large display screen.
Color display.
Ability to run other programs (air/fuel, OBDII reader output).
Storage of as many maps as you could keep track of.
If you buy one you then have a laptop!

PC disadvantages:
Hard to install in the car.
Takes more power.
Hard to operate while driving. (dangerous, actually)
More expensive.

Both units can display A/F readings from a wideband.

Decisions, decisions!

RX-8 friend

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