canzoomer

OK, some clarifications here are needed:

1) The Stage1 new version ( some are calling it "1.1" but it is still the same unit now) is currently making less peak power with L than with K.

2) It makes more power overall "under the curve" in both cases.

3) Some cars are acting a bit "quirky" with the "1.1" We have done a new map to deal with this, and we are doing further work on the map as I know we can get a bit more peak power as well.

Not all RX-8's respond the same with the L flash installed.
I have had a handful of people report littl power gain, lots reporting good gains, and even 3 people who had slight pinging. MDW333 ( or whatever his handle is, I forget) and 2 others have had this so far.
Lots others have had no issues. Go figure. It looks like the "learning mode" in the RX-8 ECU is doing more now, and occasionally the car is getting confused as a result. The discnnecting of the battery generally fixes this, but we still are working on ways to prevent this in general.

Again, this affects a very small number of cars.

Part of our "evil plan" is to keep developing maps that are optimized for a given flash revision, but right now what we are shipping is designed to get along reasonably well with L AND with older flash versions. Not too easy, as Mazda keeps making radical changes lately inthe maps in K and L. And there is purportedly a newer flash coming later this week too!
So, we now have the programming cable kits ready, and they are $75
Once you have that you can load newer flashes for our unit, and we can provide maps specifically tuned for each ECU flash version.
Then we can give people more peak power, but they need to choose the appropriate map for their flash version to go with it.
It is shaping up more and more that this is partially "Stage2" in many ways. Now that the hardware is Stage1/2 andpeople get the programming kits, they can change maps readily, and use what is desired and appropriate at a given time.
I am setting up an ftp download section for maps, so people can get them for their units.

As for gas mileage I am definitely seeing better with L and our unit, as are many other people.

Right now I am busy with developing newer refined maps for these conditions, and with themaps for the exhasut system equipped cars. Basically perfecting the Stage2 tune.

I am just posting a new thread of installation of our new midpipe.

Lock & Load

Maurice

Cant help but wonder what your definition of get along reasonable well is .( L flash )

Here in AUSTRALIA AS U AWARE WE SEEM TO HAVE A DIFFERENT MAP to the U.S cars the latest flash here is called E .

Love to hear from you as to the possible solution to the Australian upgrade .

I know that you are a bussy man but i feel that your Australian test pilots, KANGARRO 1 AND 2 have been kept in limbo/ IN THE DARK long enough .

CHEERS
MICHAEL

shebam

Probably just the "L" flash upside down. :p

canzoomer

I am going to get a new flash done tomorrow, and it is one after the L flash.

Once we get that, we will do some more data logging and tuning on the weekend.

We have held off shipments this week until we get a chance to see this, and determine what impact, if any, it has on our maps.
This is getting slightly ridiculous, as Mazda is now playing "flash of the month club".

Maybe something useful will come of it.

I am hearing a lot of reports now of catalytic converter failures. Cars keep throwing OBD error codes for this failure mode.

I wonder if they are scrambling to catch this problem and deal with it..

Omicron

Survey says, the "L" flash is GOODNESS. :D

I was really dreading giving up my Stage 1, but I pulled it and returned it to Maurice on Tuesday morning to be upgraded. This coincided with taking my '8 in for the recall work and the L reflash. Yeah, I know you don't have to remove the CZ unit to have a reflash done, but I figured the timing just worked out.

At any rate, I'm now (temporarilly) driving my '8 without the CanZoomer unit but with the L reflash. And the "L" is a real, tangible improvement. Car pulls more strongly throughout the rev range, and just seems to run better in general. I have no idea if the soot or mileage is any better, but I think the mileage at least may be. I'll know in a day or two when I gas up. Regardless, I can definitely recommend the "L."

It'll sure be interesting to see how well the L and the Stage 1.1 play together when I get it back in a few days. Hopefully I won't be one of those people with "quirky" behavior.

davefzr

You'll definitely have to let us know how it feels when you get it back.

davefzr

Are you thinking about upgrading to Stage 2? The products that have been posted in the past days look sweet.

David...

Omicron

If the question is addressed to me David, I'm planning on sticking with the Stage 1.1 until Stage 3 is available. I may go to that, but we'll see. But regardless of whether I go to Stage 3 or not, I am definitely planning on adding the high temp/flow cat with resonator.

And don't worry, I will definitely post the results of my Stage 1.1 plus "L" combo. :D

8_wannabe

I took my car in for the 2 recalls and gave the song and dance about "running rough" so I could get the L flash. This was at Hine mazda in San Diego. 3 service reps said "We'll have to see if you are entitled to the flash." Whatever that means. But later they called and did the flash. I'll pick up the car in the morning, and looking forward to more power at low revs, smoother running, and slightly improved mpg. I've been getting 16.8 consistenly. I have a first increment car (received July 03.) I'll let y'all know my results in a couple weeks.

SDFLY

Based off of 4 complete tanks of fuel, I am now getting an additional 3.9 mpg with the new flash!! Here in Cali, every little bit helps at $2.37 a gallon of premium!

RX-Nut

that be L?

SDFLY

Yes, and make that numer 3.06 mpg increase. I had numbers for three tanks before and compared them to the latest tanks now, I'm tripping out now that I'm getting well over a hundred miles before I reach half a tank, I'm happy with the little increase. Best avg yet for me is just over 20 mpg, previous best was just over 17 with the worst being in the 15s.

RX-Nut

good to hear it! I hope I fare the same if/when I get mine on Monday.

shaunv74

So how do you know which version L or K you have? Is there a cutoff date? I'd like to know which flash I have before I go telling the dealer I have rough running problems. Does anyone have any info. on this?

Lufa

I just completed my first full tank of gas with the "L" flash 16.8 MPG... Which is about .8 higher than usual, I was stuck in a lot of traffic last week, bunches of wrecks. I was hoping for better.

SpacerX

Put the key in the ignition ( to "ON/ACC" -- i.e., turns on everything short of starting the engine) and depress/release the brake pedal ("tap" it) at least 20 times in less than 8 seconds. You don't have to "mash" the pedal. After the flurry of brake pedal taps, your oil level indicator should sweep form low to normal to low. This indicates the presence of the "L" reflash.

JimW

I just got the new "M" flash a few days ago. I had some stalling and hard starts along with poor gas mileage about 14 mpg and this is with temps in the mid to low 80s. The dealer gave me the new flash while performing the airbag module repair. Although I haven't had the car that long with the new flash I did notice some more responsiveness in low rpm but not as much at high rpm. it's to early to measure mpg for now. Is this the new flash your talking about Maurice? Is there anything this flash does besides address the flooding problem such as run a leaner mixture in your experience?

Omicron

Good reading here and here for questions 2 and 3. For question 1, biggest difference is that Stage 2 uses more ignition advance than stage 1, which causes exhaust gas temps to rise significantly enough to burn out the stock (ceramic) catalytic converter. Hence the need for a high temp cat replacement for the stock unit... which just happens to be a high flow cat too.

RX-8 friend

The limit to how far you can go is based on:
1. Octane rating of the fuel - guaranteed higher octane rating fuel will let the tuning be more aggressive. We have to allow for fueling mistakes or just plain bad gas.
2. Variations in air pressure (from weather and altitude). This will vary the amount of oxygen in the combustion chamber. Compensation by the sensor may be inaccurate.
3. Flow restrictions in the engine "system" (intake, exhaust, and engine). Less restictions can effectively lean out the mixture, and lean mixtures are more prone to pre-ignition.

The unit has limited control over what the PCM does, that is, can only correct a certain number of RPM/load points. All we do is change what the PCM calls for. The more Mazda messes with the PCM program (the "flashes" everyone talks about) the more work we have to do to ensure our units will work with all the flashes. We program in fixed changes at each RPM/load point. If Mazda changes what they do, our fixed change may not be suitable any more.

Upper limitations we have seen - about 240 HP peak on good quality premium gas at the rear wheels (stock intake and exhaust). This wouldn't be a suitable program for a street car as any variation (as numbered above) might put the engine into problem territory.

We have seen in the area of 260+ HP with high flow cat and Greddy cat back (good quality premium fuel). Again, not usable in this configuration on the street. In fact we actually saw det. problems at this level, caused by the PCM changing the air/fuel just due to gear selection! We're working on solutions to that problem.

The ultimate solution would be to replace the PCM with an aftermarket one (similar to the 3rd gen RX-7 replacement with an Apex'i Power FC). Then we would control everything. Problem is the PCM controls everything in the car (well, almost), and while a replacement may happen some day, it's not likely in the near future due to the complexity and proprietary nature of the PCM progamming.

JimW

I have to say the stage 2 offering 260 horsepower at the wheels is darn impressive even if you have to detune it a bit for gear shifting. I also remember Maurice saying more horsepower is to be had for us folks that are at sea level but with and added measure of caution and adhearing to good quality high octane fuel. Can't wait!

RX-8 friend

Well, as we found out last week, there are way too many variables. As "Donald" (you know who he is) said, "there are things we know we don't know, and worse, things we don't know we don't know" .

shebam

New TSB now says to update ALL vehicles to the "M" flash every time they come in. (Understand ifrom CZ post that it is not materially different from L flash for CZ purposes, but means we all will be at L level sooner or later.) See https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...642#post319642