View Poll Results: What should our new sales model be?
Keep the price at $500, sometimes be slower to respond
19
14.07%
Set the price at $600, pay more staff, allow group buys at $500
113
83.70%
Set up a few dealers, let them set the selling price
3
2.22%
Voters: 135. You may not vote on this poll
A Dilemma
01-30-2004, 08:43 PM
#51
Registered
Originally posted by mdw33333
Here's an idea, before discussing these future selling plans for the Stage 1, how about he fill the orders that were already placed. Duh! This is B.S.
Here's an idea, before discussing these future selling plans for the Stage 1, how about he fill the orders that were already placed. Duh! This is B.S.
I can appreciate your frustration, but to suggest that he should avoid making future plans is just silly - the two actions (expediting production to meet current orders as quickly as possible, and planning to anticipate future volumes and production capacity requirements) are not mutually exclusive.
Regards,
Gordon
01-30-2004, 10:11 PM
#52
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Gord96BRG, I just question wether or not his future business decisions should be discussed on an open forum of customers, many of whom are discontent from past business transactions with him. It is Canzoomer's business, not mine, I'm simply questioning whether it's appropriate. I have to admit, that it's probably not my place to question his topics in his forum, however he asked for feedback by posting this thread, and feedaback is what I'm giving.
It's not his planning that I have a problem with, its discussing it in a forum full of people who are wondering "where in the heck is my unit?" It some ways, it implies that he is maybe one step ahead of himself, thus, rubbing some people the wrong way.
Along with some of the good feedback, comes some of the bad. That's part of business. I've expressed my frustrations in a respectable manner, and I speak for others on this forum whom I know feel the same.
It's not his planning that I have a problem with, its discussing it in a forum full of people who are wondering "where in the heck is my unit?" It some ways, it implies that he is maybe one step ahead of himself, thus, rubbing some people the wrong way.
Along with some of the good feedback, comes some of the bad. That's part of business. I've expressed my frustrations in a respectable manner, and I speak for others on this forum whom I know feel the same.
Last edited by mdw33333; 01-30-2004 at 11:10 PM.
01-31-2004, 12:32 AM
#53
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mdw33333,
I can appreciate where you are coming from but I have to disagree about whether a public forum is the place to discuss his future business plans and with current customers. He is looking for feedback from the people he is working hard to provide products to. How commendable is that? He put himself at risk of frustrated people in order to get an honest view of his business needs. I say excellent job CZ.
I am glad that you have been honest about your frustration because that is exactly what he needs to know about. There is nothing wrong about speaking your mind respectfully. And you're right it is his forum so if he wants to ask the question he will.
Everyone who responded did so because they had an opinion about what would be best for themselves and CZ. CZ had to make a decision and he couldn't possibly make everyone happy by it. I am glad that you participated in his poll but I think that you should be grateful that he cared about your opinion rather than be upset that he asked for it. I hope you get your Stage I soon and I am sorry that I won't be able (allowed by the wife) to get mine until spring.
Maybe I'm just jealous.
I can appreciate where you are coming from but I have to disagree about whether a public forum is the place to discuss his future business plans and with current customers. He is looking for feedback from the people he is working hard to provide products to. How commendable is that? He put himself at risk of frustrated people in order to get an honest view of his business needs. I say excellent job CZ.
I am glad that you have been honest about your frustration because that is exactly what he needs to know about. There is nothing wrong about speaking your mind respectfully. And you're right it is his forum so if he wants to ask the question he will.
Everyone who responded did so because they had an opinion about what would be best for themselves and CZ. CZ had to make a decision and he couldn't possibly make everyone happy by it. I am glad that you participated in his poll but I think that you should be grateful that he cared about your opinion rather than be upset that he asked for it. I hope you get your Stage I soon and I am sorry that I won't be able (allowed by the wife) to get mine until spring.
Maybe I'm just jealous.
Last edited by 93rdcurrent; 01-31-2004 at 02:00 AM.
01-31-2004, 02:38 AM
#54
Forum Vendor
Thread Starter
Thanks for the feedback and all the support guys.
I want to give you some idea of a few of the issues we have been dealing with:
For building these units there are several suppliers, components, services and actions involved:
1) Boards - We get these as a manufactured assembly. We have them pre-made for us with the ROM data partially pre-programmed, then add the actual mapping file here.
The last batch arrived over a week late, and when we got them this week we found the pre-programmed part was incomplete. Add 15 minutes each to adjust this. Contacted the company making this and explained what was missed, promises next batch this will not happen again. Hopefully so, earlier ones were done correctly, so this looks like a one-time glitch.
2) Wiring harness components. We are getting the actual wires pre-cut, with terminals installed, and other minor actions done, from a company in Hong Kong.
We have been doing this all here up to now, and we sent the bulk of the metal terminal ends that get crimped on the wires to them a few weeks ago. Went through a round where it almost seemed that the person I was communicating with was intentionally misunderstanding what we are asking for. I find this strange as we have used this company several times before to make assemblies that are quite a bit more complex than this one. Finally got an inkling of what was going on 2 weeks ago. Our rep seemingly was avoiding responding to emails and telephone calls. Moved up the chain to his boss, and found out that the guy was leaving the company as of 10 days ago, with the Chinese New Year holidays.
After the holiday I resumed with the boss, and found out most of the work preparation had been avoided. Now well under way, but it has taken 6 weeks to get to the point that should have taken a week.
Connectors: The manufacturer that makes these is big, and the only problem we have had is that ordering as FEW as 1200 pieces is considered a trivial order for this type of component. Still, they have some people who have been excellent in helping out. Last batch of connectors actually came from warehouses in USA, Japan, Italy and Germany. Literally every piece had to come from a different country.
Metal cases: Made locally. This has been relatively event free. I did the design work, gave them the CAD, and they have been on time and accurate.
Minor components. Mostly event free so far, except for the last minute decision to use switches. This dragged on as the supplier rep forgot to order in what we ordered. Got sorted out by his boss.
Final assembly:
If we do all the work here, including the wiring harnesses, etc., it takes at least 3 man hours per unit to build. Simply not practical. However with the subassembly pre-builds I talked about above our final assembly time goes down to about 1 hour. As the pieces all come together we will see a great improvement in production speed.
Testing: Each unit has been hand tested up to now, and drive tested on my car. We needed a more efficient and safer way to test, and we now have a custom-made circuit tester we can plug the whole wiring assembly into so we may test for accuracy or faults. Thanks go out to rx-freind for making this.
Shipping: We started off using Fedex Ground for the bulk of the orders going out. While they have a good reputation in general, lately their customs paperwork handling people have been making a series of errors that would appear comedic, if it were not happening to us! Ended up resolving this by swtiching over to their Express Air service, which is actually an entirely different division of the company. Now this is going pretty smoothly.
Paperwork:
To successfully ship one of these items we need to include:
Shipping waybil
Commercial Invoices (in triplicate)
Documentation of origin of components and whole assembly
FCC Declaration forms
NAFTA forms
Tariff and duty classification forms.
I hope this gives people a bit of an overview of the process we are going thorugh in scaling up to mass production, and the various issues and delays we have encountered.
As we progress through the various hurdles we are adapting from a capacity to make perhaps 25 units a week to making a couple of hundred a week.
Communications and problem solving for customers:
This forum is both a blessing and a curse. No matter what one does, errors will occasionally happen. Sometimes our errors, and sometimes our suppliers and shippers. In most businesses these things happen silently, and are only heard of by the customer and us.
In this forum ANYTHING that goes wrong with a transaction becomes a topic of discussion on an almost soap-opera like scale.
On the other hand, if we want to disseminate information, ask for feed-back, and so on, this forum makes it incredibly easy to communicate with a large number of people in a relatively short time.
In the meantime I am woriking on such matters as:
Australian requirements: The cars over there seem to have an entirely different configuration than most other places. Even the Mass Air Flow sensor is a different unit!
Stage2: We have a list of people who want to go to the Stage2 version, but up to now we have focused mainly on getting Stage1 done and getting production and shipments flowing to fill those. Now we have to take the final steps to got to full production on Stage2. It is a similar build, but with a few added wrinkles, more internals, different programming, and the fabrication and supply of exhaust components. 3 more suppliers in the chain.
Beyond: We have a number of threads we are following in ongoing R&D and testing. Precursors to Stage3, implementing new ideas and improvements. Diving into producing fully programmable kits for people who are actively using these in competitive track use, and other areas. I am investigating ways to solve the issue of the RX-8 being prone to hard starting and flooding, ways to produce a kit to allow one to readily control the ABS and DSC systems, and testing of components like intakes, turbos, superchargers, and suspension items.
Lots of work ahead.
It is fun though, and working with the people we have been met has been a very pleasurable experience.
Edited for typos 01-31-04
I want to give you some idea of a few of the issues we have been dealing with:
For building these units there are several suppliers, components, services and actions involved:
1) Boards - We get these as a manufactured assembly. We have them pre-made for us with the ROM data partially pre-programmed, then add the actual mapping file here.
The last batch arrived over a week late, and when we got them this week we found the pre-programmed part was incomplete. Add 15 minutes each to adjust this. Contacted the company making this and explained what was missed, promises next batch this will not happen again. Hopefully so, earlier ones were done correctly, so this looks like a one-time glitch.
2) Wiring harness components. We are getting the actual wires pre-cut, with terminals installed, and other minor actions done, from a company in Hong Kong.
We have been doing this all here up to now, and we sent the bulk of the metal terminal ends that get crimped on the wires to them a few weeks ago. Went through a round where it almost seemed that the person I was communicating with was intentionally misunderstanding what we are asking for. I find this strange as we have used this company several times before to make assemblies that are quite a bit more complex than this one. Finally got an inkling of what was going on 2 weeks ago. Our rep seemingly was avoiding responding to emails and telephone calls. Moved up the chain to his boss, and found out that the guy was leaving the company as of 10 days ago, with the Chinese New Year holidays.
After the holiday I resumed with the boss, and found out most of the work preparation had been avoided. Now well under way, but it has taken 6 weeks to get to the point that should have taken a week.
Connectors: The manufacturer that makes these is big, and the only problem we have had is that ordering as FEW as 1200 pieces is considered a trivial order for this type of component. Still, they have some people who have been excellent in helping out. Last batch of connectors actually came from warehouses in USA, Japan, Italy and Germany. Literally every piece had to come from a different country.
Metal cases: Made locally. This has been relatively event free. I did the design work, gave them the CAD, and they have been on time and accurate.
Minor components. Mostly event free so far, except for the last minute decision to use switches. This dragged on as the supplier rep forgot to order in what we ordered. Got sorted out by his boss.
Final assembly:
If we do all the work here, including the wiring harnesses, etc., it takes at least 3 man hours per unit to build. Simply not practical. However with the subassembly pre-builds I talked about above our final assembly time goes down to about 1 hour. As the pieces all come together we will see a great improvement in production speed.
Testing: Each unit has been hand tested up to now, and drive tested on my car. We needed a more efficient and safer way to test, and we now have a custom-made circuit tester we can plug the whole wiring assembly into so we may test for accuracy or faults. Thanks go out to rx-freind for making this.
Shipping: We started off using Fedex Ground for the bulk of the orders going out. While they have a good reputation in general, lately their customs paperwork handling people have been making a series of errors that would appear comedic, if it were not happening to us! Ended up resolving this by swtiching over to their Express Air service, which is actually an entirely different division of the company. Now this is going pretty smoothly.
Paperwork:
To successfully ship one of these items we need to include:
Shipping waybil
Commercial Invoices (in triplicate)
Documentation of origin of components and whole assembly
FCC Declaration forms
NAFTA forms
Tariff and duty classification forms.
I hope this gives people a bit of an overview of the process we are going thorugh in scaling up to mass production, and the various issues and delays we have encountered.
As we progress through the various hurdles we are adapting from a capacity to make perhaps 25 units a week to making a couple of hundred a week.
Communications and problem solving for customers:
This forum is both a blessing and a curse. No matter what one does, errors will occasionally happen. Sometimes our errors, and sometimes our suppliers and shippers. In most businesses these things happen silently, and are only heard of by the customer and us.
In this forum ANYTHING that goes wrong with a transaction becomes a topic of discussion on an almost soap-opera like scale.
On the other hand, if we want to disseminate information, ask for feed-back, and so on, this forum makes it incredibly easy to communicate with a large number of people in a relatively short time.
In the meantime I am woriking on such matters as:
Australian requirements: The cars over there seem to have an entirely different configuration than most other places. Even the Mass Air Flow sensor is a different unit!
Stage2: We have a list of people who want to go to the Stage2 version, but up to now we have focused mainly on getting Stage1 done and getting production and shipments flowing to fill those. Now we have to take the final steps to got to full production on Stage2. It is a similar build, but with a few added wrinkles, more internals, different programming, and the fabrication and supply of exhaust components. 3 more suppliers in the chain.
Beyond: We have a number of threads we are following in ongoing R&D and testing. Precursors to Stage3, implementing new ideas and improvements. Diving into producing fully programmable kits for people who are actively using these in competitive track use, and other areas. I am investigating ways to solve the issue of the RX-8 being prone to hard starting and flooding, ways to produce a kit to allow one to readily control the ABS and DSC systems, and testing of components like intakes, turbos, superchargers, and suspension items.
Lots of work ahead.
It is fun though, and working with the people we have been met has been a very pleasurable experience.
Edited for typos 01-31-04
Last edited by canzoomer; 01-31-2004 at 11:53 AM.
01-31-2004, 03:08 AM
#55
ROTOR?
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As I've said before, Canzoomer is an asset to all of us. He is an out going and honest individual. Thanks for taking the time in showing us what is involved in producing your products. Canzoomer is KING!!!!!!!
01-31-2004, 12:41 PM
#57
Forum Vendor
Thread Starter
Just a closing note to mdw3333:
1) I promised him that if worse comes to worse I will ship him MY unit this week.
2) We have NOT charged your card!
1) I promised him that if worse comes to worse I will ship him MY unit this week.
2) We have NOT charged your card!
02-01-2004, 06:51 AM
#59
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CZ, that is a very respectable gesture. Though, I hope it doesn't come to that. To make a gesture like that lets me know that you are truely "Customer Service oriented." You have a definite advantage at this point due to the lack of present competition in developing a Mod such as the Stage 1. However, soon there will be competition (there always is) and "Customer Service," which you apllied in the statement above, will definitely give you a "leg up" on the competition. Thank you and congrats.
02-01-2004, 02:24 PM
#60
Forum Vendor
Thread Starter
Originally posted by mdw33333
CZ, that is a very respectable gesture. Though, I hope it doesn't come to that. To make a gesture like that lets me know that you are truely "Customer Service oriented." You have a definite advantage at this point due to the lack of present competition in developing a Mod such as the Stage 1. However, soon there will be competition (there always is) and "Customer Service," which you apllied in the statement above, will definitely give you a "leg up" on the competition. Thank you and congrats.
CZ, that is a very respectable gesture. Though, I hope it doesn't come to that. To make a gesture like that lets me know that you are truely "Customer Service oriented." You have a definite advantage at this point due to the lack of present competition in developing a Mod such as the Stage 1. However, soon there will be competition (there always is) and "Customer Service," which you apllied in the statement above, will definitely give you a "leg up" on the competition. Thank you and congrats.
We are people, and RX owners, just like you.
Thanks for the understanding!
02-03-2004, 01:54 AM
#63
Forum Vendor
Thread Starter
Originally posted by pr0ber
I wouldn't mind seeing some kind of distribution system in the US to avoid the tariffs and all the other stuff related to crossing borders
I wouldn't mind seeing some kind of distribution system in the US to avoid the tariffs and all the other stuff related to crossing borders
Plus we qualify under the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) so there is no duty from that reason too.
What we ARE working on for USA orders is to ship in bulk across border, then packages get taken out of bigger box and go separately form there.
Saves cost as bigger shipment part way at lower costs, and one customs clearance brokerage fees versus several.
Should be in place in a week or so.
02-03-2004, 02:45 AM
#64
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Hi Maurice,
Great job on your new venture. You have done a wonderful job on coming up with stage 1. I have been following your progress for months and also feeling your pain. It is never easy setting up a new production line, and it is even much harder increasing your production capacity. One has to be carefull of expanding too fast as you may never recover your costs if the inital demands for these units taper off after a short while. You may want to consider selling the technology to a larger company who has the resources to build , sell and service the product and are able to offer the customer support, and free yourself to develop more new toys for us, and as soon as you get another one ready, you turn it over, and move on. You are having too much fun in the R&D department, and I really fear you lose your passion while dealing with all the headaches associated with starting a new business. It is never fun being on the defensive side almost daily explaining why did you not ship a customer his unit. Please keep smiling, and thank you so much for being a shining star for all of us. God bless you.......
Sincerely
Mark Qandil
On another note, could I phone you as I have few questions for you regarding stage 1?
Great job on your new venture. You have done a wonderful job on coming up with stage 1. I have been following your progress for months and also feeling your pain. It is never easy setting up a new production line, and it is even much harder increasing your production capacity. One has to be carefull of expanding too fast as you may never recover your costs if the inital demands for these units taper off after a short while. You may want to consider selling the technology to a larger company who has the resources to build , sell and service the product and are able to offer the customer support, and free yourself to develop more new toys for us, and as soon as you get another one ready, you turn it over, and move on. You are having too much fun in the R&D department, and I really fear you lose your passion while dealing with all the headaches associated with starting a new business. It is never fun being on the defensive side almost daily explaining why did you not ship a customer his unit. Please keep smiling, and thank you so much for being a shining star for all of us. God bless you.......
Sincerely
Mark Qandil
On another note, could I phone you as I have few questions for you regarding stage 1?
02-12-2004, 02:13 PM
#65
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Well Me and RX8 Friend are officially processing the orders for CZ Stage 1's, Rx8 Friend is building them as quick as humanly possible while i shovel through the paper work and manage the shipping. We hope to be in full swing very soon.
12-29-2008, 10:21 PM
#72
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I'm curious why the bump? CZ was before my time mostly, but from what i understand it was a great tool in its time but these days would be considered an archaic means...?
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