bureau13

I think Option 2 sounds the best. $750 is, IMO, enough of an increase to give me pause. $600...probably not. Someone mentioned the short lifetime of the product, and that is probably a good point. For that reason, despite the fact that I'd rather pay $500 than $600 (I don't yet have an 8 or I would have done so already) I don't like option 1...you need to have some time to work on Canzoomer Gen II or whatever the "next mod" will be, assuming you want to keep this ball rolling.

jds

Kenco

Option 2 for me Maurice!:D

I for on appreciate the work you've done, and the fact that you still seem passionate about the car.

This option may give you more time to develop the stage 2 kit , and drive your own car a bit more often (for fun!).

An expectant UK customer............

JimW

I agree with option #2.

canzoomer

As Paypal has forced us into using their "Business account" as of Feb 8th we are now accepting credit card funded payments.
AS this costs roughly 3% we are simply going to pass on those costs.

I remain a believer in letting the customer choose his method of payment, and the associated costs that accompany it.

Paypal and credit card purchases bear a cost.
They are convenient.
However if someone prefers to pay us by cashiers cheque or money order I do not believe they should be paying the 2.5% to 3% attached to the credit card choices.

Last time I checked Canada and the USA still had currencies, and people have the right to use them. When we force all customers to pay the service fees associated with credit companies, we erode that right, and the currency of our countries.

When you walk into a store, and you see the American Express or Diners Club symbols please realize that you are paying an extra 5% for the ability to use them.

But when you pay cash in that same store also remember that you are still paying that 5%.

That is simply not fair, but the agreements the credit providers make us comply with try to prevent our rights to do business as we see fit, and attempt to make us hide the costs of this service.

In effect you are being charged a premium for using the currency of your country, so that some of us may use credit cards.

Thanks for the good wishes, Gary, we appreciate it.

garyna

Thanks for your quick reply Maurice! I absolutely agree with your statements above. I personally have no objection to paying a 3% surcharge if I choose to pay w/ my CC, as it should be. I guess we can all just chalk it up as a cost of doing business for the sake of convenience. I certainly appreciate your honesty and candor.

That being said, if I order this week, how far back am I? 30-60 days?? Thanks again.

-Gary

tadams

I think #2 is the best for all involved.

I think it was hinted at earlier in this thread, but have you thought about selling this as a "kit". Sell it at a discount for the DIYers and just ship all the materials. This would help you on the labor side of this project.

BTW, I can't wait for my Stage 1.....

bureau13

Ooh that's a great idea! I haven't seen the kit, so I don't know if you take steps in the manufacturing to ensure that your intellectual property remains yours, but if its all internal to the chips (i.e. no microprocessors embedded inside a resin or some such thing) then this might be doable. It would save you the time and trouble of wiring it up as well.

jds

Omicron

Maurice -

TiRX8 makes an excellent point. I would keep the manufacturing in house for now, sell them while demand remains high (and until the "big name" competition catches up with you, probably 3-12 months at best) then license your maps out.

In fact, I'd start contacting those companies NOW so that they can just buy or lease the maps from you and save themselves a whole lot of R&D. if you wait, they will develop their own maps, and your opportunity to sell to them will diminish.

One other thing to consider: Do you want RX-8 parts to become a real, permanent sideline to you company's product line? Think seriously on this one (it IS a labor of love, after all!) and if you decide you want to keep doing it, you're in a great market position to keep your lead.

I voted #2 also.

Hope this helps...

93rdcurrent

I really seemed to be in the minority with the #3 dealer vote. I would certainly be interested in representing you stateside. I started an MR2 Car Club in Portland, OR. when I lived there just to offer upgrades and equipment to other enthusiasts. I feel that way about my RX-8. There are some Rotary enthusiasts here in this area but I would like to spark more interest in the 8.

I disagree that you will only have a life span of a few years with the RX-8. I believe that Mazda has plans for this car and that we will see a push for more sales. The dealers have plenty of them and that is a good sign that we will see many on the road. I do agree that you will need to think seriously about this venture but I see a big opportunity for you to get yourself placed in the right spot to corner your market. Your reputation is very good and while some bigger name companies may try to jump into the market you are already there. Establish yourself. Get a distributor here stateside and move your product. If you are getting a lot of requests in the UK and Europe then get distributor established there and the same in Australia. Then you don't have to worry about shipping all of the individual items to so many countries and locations. It saves you from needing to track all of the little items.

Another point is that if you have distributors it will make your warranty of items easier. You can save on shipping them out by not paying such high prices. You may even decide to have your distribution depts. handle the warranty issues by deciding what is and isn't manufacturer or parts issues.

I would like to see more development for the RX-8 and from my experience you seem to be level headed and have excellent business ethics. These are qualities most of us are looking for and companies such as Neuspeed, UPRD, and Turbonetics all started out as a few people with a vision. I look forward to seeing where this will take you. You have a cornered market now since most of us can't get some of what you have to offer elsewhere.

Let distributors and dealers take some of the load off. Give yourself time for more R&D and come out with more products. Maybe start a collaboration with other manufacturers and create products that you can sell through your distributors under your label. Some of these products could be high-flow/high-temp cats, exhaust, face plates for aftermarket stereos, etc. There are many ideas on this forum and I know that other manufacturerers are paying attention. Beat them to the punch line.

Maybe I should have been a motivational speaker... Any way that's my $.02 worth. If you are looking for someone interested in distribution here just let me know. I also can work on Newsletters and other promotional material. You gonna need a logo.

eclps0

Dont want to be bitter or a bitch but dont talk about being gay as negaitive. WHat do u mean by pink wires he is gay right!!!!!. I dont say "look this guys cant dress he dosent match ohh hes straight right ohh that why". keep your gay sterotype and jokes to your self!!!


Aslo zoomer i pick option 2

u r doing great work but just telling you if you are like my dad at all it will be very hard to hire someone u trust. My dad owns a pharmacy he works over 70 hours a week because he wont hire anyone taht cant do teh job how he wants it. well good luck

adn in about a month or so i will buy your ecu mod

canzoomer

Kitting it woud be pretty well a waste of time.
Final assembly is a minor cost. Building the components is the cost, and not for faint-hearted.

canzoomer

I do not think they will truly "catch up"
We have the packaging down so it is an easy, no permanent mods to your car install. That is what is unique to this.
Maniac already demonstrated that with will, skill, and time it can be done, but via the hack and slash route. That is certainly do-able, but a heck of a lot of work.
I know, we did it too, and then some.

What we did that is unique is to make it a plug-in.
Besides at either $500 or $600 there is little or no room to undercut us. If we raise the price to $750 it opens the doors to the copycats.

If you look at typical ECU chip/board units, or similar they all go for this price or higher. We supply a lot more useful prepackaged stuff for that price.
Even the guys that will reprogram an ECU charge about this much.
We already started that with the guys doing turbos/blowers.
We have offered to do the tune for them, and our unit has all the hardware in it to support the fuel/air we are shipping now, PLUS ignition and positive pressure control for this.

All that is required to turn on ignition, more aggressive tuning, and even positive pressure is a bit of wires inside and a different programming set. Yes, the difference between Stage1 and Stage2 is only about $30 in part inside. All wiring, plugs and software.
The biggest part of the price difference will be devoted to support and customization. Stage2 is for the racer crowd.

The answer is "YES"
However it can not push away our other business either.
Based on the responses here I am hiring someone to handle the management of the day-to-day of this business. I will still handle PR, R&D, management, but leave the rest to another person.
Yeah, it really does, ALL OF YOU!

I now know what I will be doing, and (no surprise) it will be #2.

mdw33333

Good choice.

zoom44

wouldn't it be less expensive to pack a whole bunch of stage1's on to a pallet and send them to one or 2 locations in the US and then have them shipped to the customers from that point? maybe you could use east and west coast distributors? ive got a spare room i could turn into a "warehouse" to distribute from. hell orders from oregon and washington i could deliver myself. another excuse to drive my RX-8, especially after i get CZ stage1.

also have you trademarked Canzoomer, CZ and combinations of those with "stage 1"? you don't want anyone else stealing your name. or trying to profit from it buy marketing a similar product using a similar name.

compaddict

Or charge 750.00 and make a few bucks.

Vince

JD32

#2
Working for the Air Force, I have seen how distibutors can change prices to whatever they want ($500 hammers etc.). Just look at the 56% markup on the strakes ($160 cost to $250 MSRP) most Mazda dealers are doing (not Rosenthal).
Keep control yourself. I agree with rex. At $500 - $600 all is good. $750 makes me pause to think.
Can't wait to get the money for the Stage 1 (see first sentence for reason).
Great work.
Thanks.

93rdcurrent

Correct distributors can raise prices but only if that keeps them competitive. If you know that you can order an ECU upgrade from Canzoomer at $600 + shipping but for example, I charged you $750 + shipping. Even if it took an extra 2 weeks to get it from Canzoomer most people would go that route.

Now if it was the same cost for the ECU upgrade but it meant that you would get it in half the time... Well then it's up to you. Or how about someone coming to my location and I put it in the car for them... Maybe I would be able to attend car shows and rotary events here in the states that Canzoomer doesn't have the time to do. I could sell them there and keep interest high in Canzoomer's product. That is how a distributor could be effective.

The product would never leave Canzoomers control since a distributors job would be to advertise, create product awareness, and get the products to the consumer. None of these things are taking control away, it is called outsourcing.

Bob The Eskimo

I have to admit I voted #1 just on my being frugal.
But sitting and thinking about it I would like to change my vote. I go for number 2.

I am a product manager and set prices like these all day. I say set a price, $600 for example, and then build tiers that will allow bulk orders to decrease the price from there. i.e. purchase 2 for $1150, 3 for $1650.

Enjoy the Ride. . .

OverLOAD

I voted for #2 also, here's why:

It seems to me that selling yourself short isn't going to keep this a fun project for long, especially if you have to deal with absorbing price fluctuations from ordering offshore components, etc.

The best thing you can do, is exaclty what you proposed for #2. Keeping the frugal buyers able to get in to the group buy proposition, and that is precisely what I would wait for. My RX-8 is currently happy in my garage for the winter, but come march, I'm going to be looking for a group buy to get the CZ Stage 1.

Too high a price will bring in too much competition, but not being able to handle all the orders is a problem too. Typical small business issues; You start out wearing all the hats, and end up not wanting any of them unless your business is your passion.

If you do find that sales are starting to slip, (once they get over the initial rush of people that have been waiting for stage 1 to ship), it might be time to give one to a magazine (need suggestions?) to review in an article to drum up interest.

Again, thanks for the good work on the much desired mod,

OverLOAD

boothguy

Maurice: I think it's extraordinary that you'd ask your buying public what you ought to do with a business you started - even though you didn't set out to do that. Clear testimony to the fact that this is a business grown out of enthusiasm.

I think you have to go the Option 2 route at the very least in order to make dealing with the inevitable problem children worthwhile. You've been somewhat insulated from that thus far because you're dealing with an audience of like-minded individuals who want the same things as you in terms of the car we all love. But as it gets bigger and your audience broadens and your installed base deepens, a whole different group of headaches will develop.

When that happens, I personally want the emotional cushion of you making some financial return on all your effort to keep you doing what you're doing.

And yes, I'm a business owner myself.

red_rx8_red_int

I voted 1 also because I was being frugal (cheap really), and was hoping to save some money in the near future. Not fair to CZ. What to charge? Charge what the market will bear and what will maximize your profits. If you do not want to increase staff and can only produce X units per month then you should charge whatever dollar amount will result in X orders per month. If you receive too many orders in a given time period, raise the price. If after raising the price, you get too few orders, have an end of the month blowout at a reduced price. Market studies can be a lot of help, but so can trial and error. That said if I must choose one of the choices above, I choose 2. But if people only know about your product from this board then most if not all of your sales will be at the group pricing and it may not matter.

Edit to fix typos

mdw33333

I am just frustrated with all of the talk about group buys and volume pricing, considering I haven't been shipped "a single" Stage 1 that I ordered over a month ago and paid for 3 weeks ago. I was told (by CZ) my unit would ship out around Jan. 15th, then he told me the week of the 19th, then the week of the 26th. Still no shipping confirmation and no Stage 1. Here's an idea, before discussing these future selling plans for the Stage 1, how about he fill the orders that were already placed. Duh! This is B.S.

I voted for number 2, hopefully enacting this option will prevent others from feeling the same discontent that I feel.

Omicron

Speaking of car shows Maurice, are you planning on attending SEMA and similar shows as a vendor now?

canzoomer

Exactly the reason I asked this question.

Matters of time.

Having decided to follow the 2nd option I am now hiring people to improve matters regarding this issue.

canzoomer

Possibly. It's warmer than here!