slavearm

Um... I am not an EE, but I can tell you, there is an issue with the fix.

3 possibilities.

1. Coil Pack voltage is not adequate to completely fire

2. Settings on the E-manage unit may not be correct. The setting that came on my CZ 1.1 shows Greddy sensor enabled, and A.A.V set to 300.400. so on and so forth. If we arent touching anything until 2200 (4400 actually as CZ didn't do the maniac mod to show actual RPMs) Why start AAV at 300 (aka 600)

3. If you watch, timing is being adjusted even at idle!?!? by 3-4 degrees. This just doesn't seem right for a unit that isn't supposed to adjust anything until it hits 4400rpms


So I talked with Dave yesterday, and he suggested that I increase the timing. The problem is this... the map only changes 15 points. I don't really want to move the map down to adjust the lower ranges and give up some of my mid and top range control. The place where this is really noticable in the power loss department is up to about 5k rpm.

The reason this really sucks, is if you turn the unit on you lose power, even in the areas that the maps arent adjusting. Why is this? Can someone answer this question? I will be available all weekend if someone wants to come scope this out and lives in the socal area. AT this point, I cannot even take the unit to a professional tuner, because something is not correct about the output from the unit, otherwise my power below 4400 rpms wouldn't be affected.

I know CZ is really really busy right now, especially since he is working with Sunflower and I am sure they are pressuring him, but I could use some help with this, and perhaps they could look at what's going on. I don't have the best electricle equipment to work with, so I don't know how helpful I can be. AT the same time, I do have mad soldering skillz and a good soldering iron... so I could definately mod the unit if required.

Thanks for any help...

PS- I live in Anaheim, CA

Slavearm

smrx8

iTrader: (1)

slavearm what exactly are you changing on your unit .by the way someone told me the by + something your actually taking it away and by - away your increasing it have you heard of this? why does it work that way does emanage unit work the same way?
ps
did you have any luck with gotham racing

Genom

I would prefer if we even GOT a fix posted so more people could work on it. This no reply on teh boards and emails is pissing me off. Now at 2 and a half months with the unit in my storage shed.

slavearm

Maurice (God Bless him) responded to some of my questions, and I can tell you I am getting this thing more dialed in every day. I am at the point now where I am making a little bit of power. I am going to shoot to try and get the output of the maf at the voltage I want along a given range. If I get it dialed in and working, I will post a how to, and maybe even some dyno numbers (not that I trust the dyno numbers with this car).

Anyways... the problems I was having have everything to do with the mapping and my MAF.

Once I get the AFR straightened out I am going to attack the Ingition, because I believe that the Maurice map is not only conservative, but will be affected by the voltage of my maf being off.

Anyways... Just wanted to let you guys know there is hope. I can now switch between off and on (have my wife do it that is) and I always pick the on as having more butt power.


Slavearm Out.

zoom44

can you guys post up your the out put voltage from the mafs at say 7k rpm please? i would like to see what the voltages are and compare them between various cars. thanks

edit: or just pm them to me

slavearm

Airflow Meter Input @7k = 3.82
Airflow Meter Output @7k = 4.03

SLavearm

guy321

I could.. what's in it for me?! You want 7k in what gear?

zoom44

slavearm that "input" is to the cz so it is really the output of the mafs correct?

guy at this point it doesnt matter. any gear you can legally achieve 7k rpm if on the road or 4th gear if you are doing a dyno. thanks

Speed Racer

Recorded from eManage support tool at top secret testing facility.

Gear, RPM, MAF input, MAF output, A/F ratio
1, 6984, 3.763, 3.651, 13.12
2, 6944, 3.822, 3.655, 12.44
3, 6956, 3.890, 3.651, 12.76
4, 7012, 3.846, 3.646, 12.56

Edit: added A/F ratio from CANscan.

slavearm

I am just giving you the readings from the Emanage software. I am thinking that your assumptions are correct.

Now what seems really wierd to me, is that at 7k rpms, speed racers unit decreased the voltage output while mine increased the voltage? Anyone else notice this?

Slavearm

Speed Racer

Slavearm,

Do you know what you were getting for an A/F ratio at those points?

zoom44

ok see the input to the cz you guys are showing is the actual mafs voltage output. hovering around 3.8- 3.85 is a normal rx-8 mafs output at that rpm. what speed's does- changing it down to 3.6ish is what you want to happen. that leans out the a/f by about 15%-20%. slavearm you need to tune yours and from my understanding + on the cz decreases the voltage and - increases it. someone confirm that please. also as i said your mafs appear to in the normal range. as an example polaks mafs input to the cz was already at 3.6x so when the base cz map made its adjustments it took him into pinging a/f range.

slavearm

I am a little concerned, because my setting is already 28 at that level on my map... I am hoping that Maurice will get back to me about the map and my findings. The part I am still having trouble getting my head around is why we (at least me) am losing power in the low end with the unit attached. You would think with a 4 degree advance and no AFR changes, I should be gaining not losing power. My only thought, is that with the advance and the AFR being sooo high, (because of the stock closed loop tuning) that maybe the ping sensor is kicking in... oddly enough though, I am not hearing any pinging, and you would think it would be noticeable no?

Slavearm

mysql101

I don't have a CZ and don't know anything about it, but if the difference from car to car is a voltage number, why can't the unit take that into account and adjust for that?

zoom44

it doesn't "understand" the volts. it just it just adds or subtracts a percentage based on the map being used. put another way it doesnt out put a set voltage- i.e. send 3.62v to the pcm- it just changes the v going to the pcm by x. if it is supposed to subtract .2v it will do so whether it will take you from 3.8 to 3.6(good) or if it takes you from 3.6 to 3.4(possible pinging).

slavearm this pcm is very "intelligent". it could definetly being doing what you suggest as well as trying to "un-tune" the work you have done.

Speed Racer

If you make too many changes too quickly the ECU will compensate with a "fuel trim" and it will try to undo your tuning. You can see this info if you use a CAN scan tool.

slavearm

Man I ordered the CANSCAN like 3 weeks ago now, and CZ mixed up the order so I am still waiting for it to arrive. I am on the verge of just throwing the stock ecu out and getting a MOTEC or something. Will work better with a turbo kit anyways.

Out,

Slavearm

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

Do you happen to know what that would be in g/sec units??? I wanted to compare my car with my CANScan but that doesn't display the raw voltage

Speed Racer

I'm seeing between 160-163 g/sec at 7k RPMs.

Speed Racer

With the numbers I listed above the throttle position would have been at 100%. The calculated load should also be at 100% but don't quote me on that because I didn't log that value.

It is easy enough to get that information. I'll just have to make another run and log the throttle position, RPM, air flow, and calculated load. I can also throw in AFR and ignition advance to show the rest of the picture. Or would you suggest logging different values?

Magic8

And then you step on the throttle and get no response. I guess you would have to convert to the old fashion cable system

RX-8 friend

Sorry guys, I don't have an RX-8 to experiment with (other than Canzoomer's). What I've learned from Maurice follows:

First, the unit seems to reflect the timing from the first set of cells all the way down to 0 RPM. So it appears we DO adjust below 4000 RPM. The fix is to zero out the first set of timing cells. I don't think it does this with fuel.

Second, if you're getting poor response (lower power than you got stock) below 4000-5000 RPM, try the modification in the thread on the coil fix (cap removal - ensure you have two diodes in series to each coil as per the diagrams posted in that thread).

Oh, and yes, the fix was tested for several weeks. By several owners in several different cars. That's one reason for the delay in posting.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

oh man... i just finally checked mine out last night and I'm getting 193 g/sec at 7k rpms and an a/f ratio of 12.7 stock...

...doesn't look like i'm going to be getting to much out of my CZ

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Thats rich.....will give you power if decr to 13.5 ish range

Magic8

Pr0ber,

Also make sure you reset the throttle settings. It really helps. I did that and then my car responded to the AFR map changes. Before the CZ just didn't do anything.