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I have no idea, but could heat transfer have a detrimental effect on the coil being in almost direct contact with the engine?
Could be a issue but a lot of auto makers have been puting them deep inside twin cam engines for years, ie nissan RB engine and toyota 2JZ
I belive the coils in the pic are nissan R35 Hitachi units so i need to do some research to see how well they work on a rotorys faster firing speed
the more direct the better, always. All it takes is a boot and a spring between the two terminals. That’s all most direct coil packs are. I just replaced a set of coil packs on my friends truck on Saturday and that’s all it was.
the issue on the IGN-1A is that the terminal is inline with the body rather than perpendicular to it. So they stick out pretty far and then supporting their larger size and weight is not quite as elegant as in the photo above. It’s certainly possible though.
It would actually receive more airflow there than where they’re typically positioned. Assuming some numbnut didn’t foolishly seal-foam the radiator off like they mistakenly do and promote on this forum.
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I belive the coils in the pic are nissan R35 Hitachi units so i need to do some research to see how well they work on a rotorys faster firing speed
Apparently R35 coils aren't what you'd call reliable. There's an R35 guy in my track club, we were laughing about coil problems in the paddock one day.
Either way, the rotary doesn't fire any faster than a regular engine. The rotor, eshaft and stationary gearing makes it so that one rev of the eshaft is one rotor face ignition event. The thing you care about is dwell time which in stock form is longer on our coils than the Skyline ones. It's how long the coil is charging, counted in milliseconds. It can be changed via ECU tuning. The older BHR kits recommended 5ms instead of the stock 6. R35 coils run 4 it seems, you're likely to destroy them quickly at 6. Find coils that are reliable and around 6ms or more dwell time in their original application.
the more direct the better, always. All it takes is a boot and a spring between the two terminals. That’s all most direct coil packs are. I just replaced a set of coil packs on my friends truck on Saturday and that’s all it was.
the issue on the IGN-1A is that the terminal is inline with the body rather than perpendicular to it. So they stick out pretty far and then supporting their larger size and weight is not quite as elegant as in the photo above. It’s certainly possible though.
It would actually receive more airflow there than where they’re typically positioned. Assuming some numbnut didn’t foolishly seal-foam the radiator off like they mistakenly do and promote on this forum.
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I don't recall seeing your setup, but the SakeBomb bracket I have bolts onto the AC compressor.
That was one of the things I liked about it.
They seemed to have found a good place that was not too far from the engine, but not right next to it like my old BHR kit was.
it’s not really much better than the OE position once the intake piping is in place.
but then I don’t have an AC compressor blocking air flow through that side of the engine. My NA Renesis configuration is not any better, maybe worse even, but not expecting it to be a problem. It may be a bit hard to visualize due this being configured around my modified UIM, but I’m basically trying to keep the leads as short and as far away from each other as possible along with using thick 10.4mm leads for that same basic purpose. Still not as short as COP (coil on plug) though.
OE coil dwell is listed on the forum somewhere; it’s nowhere near 6 mS at normal battery voltage levels. It’s unlikely you will ever need more than 3mS dwell with IGN-1A coils on an NA Renesis engine.
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I posted the same SBG photo in referencing it, then the 2nd photo in the same post after it is my custom setup, not the same at all; try again:
Originally Posted by TeamRX8
but then I don’t have an AC compressor blocking air flow through that side of the engine. My NA Renesis configuration is not any better, maybe worse even, but not expecting it to be a problem. It may be a bit hard to visualize due this being configured around my modified UIM, but I’m basically trying to keep the leads as short and as far away from each other as possible along with using thick 10.4mm leads for that same basic purpose. Still not as short as COP (coil on plug) though.
I posted the same SBG photo in referencing it, then the 2nd photo in the same post after it is my custom setup, not the same at all; try again:
Your setup wasn't originally on my feed for some reason.
I only realized the stock photo was the same or wasn't your setup after I downloaded it off the web and posted it.
I just didn't bother to delete it.
If looking at r35 and rx-8 coils one should notice they are VERY simmilar. Also remember that a coil is not designed or the design is not owned by the mazda or who ever.. There are actually very few cpil designs considering how many engine models there is.. R35 and rx-8 coils body and internals look very simmilar! They run very simmilar dwell as well, and are well capable of running 300ish hp/cylinder.. However they are run at 1/2 the speed on the r35..compared to the wankel as there is ignition event every 2nd revolution, and om wankel ots every revolution..
on wankel that gives a total time of 6.66ms , and on duty cycle/load we have to include spark duration.. That with oem dwell table gives 1.8ms dwell + spark duration lf ~ 2ms = 3.8/6.66 >50% which is high for ANY coil s for sustained
load..
That also means that any 'high output coil" that requires lomg dwell will underperform at the high rpm since they are either getting overloaded/burned out, or are undercharged... Be carefull if adjusting dwell table!
Great work Team for short leads.. With ign1a there is almost 20% diferene measured between normal cables (high ohm) and low ohm (spiral wound ones ~300ohm/feet).. There are also <10ohm ones but I assume thats a diminishing return.
just spoted this as i was looking for a IGN-1A coil kit
anyone using this setup
may not clear the stock rx8 engine mount however
I am trying to design a bracket to use the oem coils in such a way but to fit our brackets which these from prp dont.
Ots very easy to take appart our coil, and we cpuld most likely use a resistor less configuration (i plan to test) for max energy delivered to the sparks..
The r35 uses a 1kohm resistor to supres emi which isnt always necessary.
that is common knowledge, but actually you pointed it out your self, than wrote a different conclusion, but will pint you to the mistake, how often does one cylinder in a 4 stroke have an ignition event (assuming not running wasted spark ignition that is quite ancient)?
Originally Posted by Loki
.... The rotor, eshaft and stationary gearing makes it so that one rev of the eshaft is one rotor face ignition event.
another mistake is here:
Originally Posted by Loki
The older BHR kits recommended 5ms instead of the stock 6. R35 coils run 4 it seems, ...
oem base dwell for rx-8 coils is also 4ms @14V, the Ls coils need more dwell as they are designed for longer.. But dwell time is not static and you can use 5ms only on very low rpm.
A teaser. Just a quick 3d print to verify shape and angles are correct. Waiting to get some coil plug pigtails.
Whant to insert alternator voltage (through relay obviosly) and beefier grounds to hopefully supply the coils with higher voltage resulting with more power from same dwell. (There is to much voltage drop from alternator to the battery/relay box)
Coil on plug is on sale as "Platinum Racing Billet Rotary Coil Bracket Kit" listed coils are "Hitachi-Astemo R35 GTR VR38" which is a huge downgrade in comparison with IGN1A, almost half the amount of energy.
Coil on plug is on sale as "Platinum Racing Billet Rotary Coil Bracket Kit"
just one post above its already said. They dont fit...
R35 coils are same (body) as the rx-8 and look how it needs to be angled to fit the engine bracket..
Also r35 aremost likelyno revision or revision A rx-8 coils (according to dwell / output power).. Rx-8 rev-C have measured 112mJ at saturation (4.5~4.8ms dwell) same output as ign1A at 4ms ...
But the IGN1a dont lastlong when pushed abkve 40% duty cycle thus provide no power benefit..
I'm trying to force one coil manufacturer to do a rev-c vs that COP (dont whant to disclose yet) at 8000 and see what they survive long term (what output energy at few hours of testing)
07-10-2022, 09:41 PM
