Grouch

It's been discussed in the other thread that it'd be nice to separate the Turbo AP users and the N/A so I thought I'd start a new thread. Hope this is ok.

So here's an update:

My car engine has stock greddy turbo, stock injectors, with AP and jeff's 3_5b -10% turbo tune, running for over a week now. I didn't reset it after i installed my BOV a few days ago. It seems to be running much better now, and i wasn't sure if the pcm would adjust to the bov, but it seems to have over the past few days.

it stalls occasionally at red lights, bogs a bit under load, with a/f usually getting pinned at 10.0 under load.

stft averages zero at idle, ltft is about -21 to -23.

So this is the same information, but now I can go into boost. i turned off the boost controller, and i can get up to 4-5 lbs which is normal. it gets rich and stumbly a bit, so i made a short video which will show a better description.

at the beginning of the video, i show stft and ltft, then put it on pedal position so you can see how far i'm pressing the pedal, then i try to catch my a/f, boost and rpm guage and ap, holding the camera in my left hand and trying to drive in traffic fast with right hand. then i put hazards on and pull over, then switch to engine load on the ap, do another short run, then the rest is just normal driving. at the end i show stft and ltft again, and i rev it a bit to see if it stalls, but happily can't get it to stall, but it does stall quite a bit at red lights.

CEL came on a few days ago, the same emission leak (very small leak detected) gascap thing? I didn't reset to clear because i didn't wanna wait several days again for the dozen or so drive cycles it takes for my car to drive a little better.

the description is similar to mysql's in that i don't feel any transition into boost, it is super smooth, at light driving, this thing feels like it came like this OEM, except for the stalling and the stumbling at high load, and some backfiring.

I hope this can shed some light on my descriptions and i'm hoping to get some feedback on whether i need to try other calibrations or recirc. my bov, or need a new intake or whatever else might help. my car is running pretty decent except under wot, it gets a bit rich. i'm a newbie so i'm not sure what all the numbers suggest so hoping to get some help. thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr2ajyltIaU

mysql

I think you're LTFT indicates you need a leaner map than 5b. I'm also using 3_5b and my ltft was -5 last week. So no stalling at idle for me.

The issue you describe for WOT with 10 AFR is exactly the same as mine. I will be data logging shortly and when Jeff is able to tweak my maps to not do that, he will be able to then use that information to do the same for your car.

turborx8

iTrader: (1)

Grouch it almost sounds like you have larger fuel injectors.

Did you buy the car with the turbo kit or did you install it yourself?

cnock

Do you guys feel the cobb is better than the interceptor? Im looking at mazsports turbo kit and it already comes with the interceptor. Should i sell it when i get it and get a cobb or see if they can exclude it? Not trying to hijack the thread just want to know whats the best ems for a turbo application?

mysql

I would recommend it over the interceptor-x.

The mazsport kits are built to order, you can request no fuel management system if you desired.

RX4+4=8

Time will tell however the AP seems like the best alternative as of today

mysql

Actually, I take that back.

I would describe the AP as a work in progress right now. Jeff is working on several dozen AP customers at the same time and we're not quite at 100% right now (But it's close!). However in a week or two I think we'll be there.

There's really no way to compete with the RX-8's PCM for fuel management. It's the most elegant solution. Though used int-x's are now selling for $300-600 range. At that price you can't go wrong with either.

Grouch

turbo: I was wondering about the larger fuel injectors myself, but unless the previous owner put larger ones into the OEM car, mine are stock.

cnock: About the AP being a work in progress, I too think that it is very close. This thing has only been in our hands for a week now, and on top of that, it seems that only a few of us have it and look how close our cars are to running perfect, with no CEL's. I doubt we could say that with another system so early in it's release.

If you get the AP from Jeff and if you're patient, I think you can let him, a professional, to be responsible for your tuning, and not have to worry about bringing it in for dyno tunes, etc. It's a pretty clear choice I think. We just have to wait until he has the opportunity to work on all the different configurations out there.

mysql: are you also using 94 octane? does that make a difference in the tuning for us? after watching my own video, i noticed at times at high rpms under load it got better than 10.0 which is something I didn't notice while driving. I guess we need to see where and why it goes to 10 and remove fuel from those spots? did your car just keep getting smoother over a period of a week? I noticed that nothing would change and the car would not drive that great, even after several days and a dozen drive cycles, then all of the sudden seem to start to improve and get smoother. maybe i have a slow learning pcm

steven000e

This might be a “NOOB” question but while uninstalling the Interceptor I want to know what do I do with the vacuum line that goes from the INTx to the back of the engine intake?

PS: I had a shop install every thing for me initially (int + turbo)

mysql

nothing. Without the intx you can remove the vacuum line. Its not needed.

mysql

you might want to use that line to feed your boost gauge. Otherwise just put a 4mm vacuum cap on the manifold nipple after you pull the hose.

cnock

So let me get this straight you tell him your setup and he builds a fuel map for it? can you still adjust it yourself when you dyno tune?

steven000e

thanks mysql

Pretty Much
From what I understand (which I might be wrong) YES you can dyno tune it however you need a special software and hardware to do so

Im_DANomite

iTrader: (1)

i have the greddy turbo kit with stock cat., HKS bov, and JIC titanium exh. i'm using Jeff's map and didn't have to adjust it at all. car is running smooth, never stalls, it's perfect.

only thing i have is a blinking check engine light (random multiple misfires and misfire in cylinder 1). but i think it's just a glitch cause the car feels great. idle is smooth and doesn't fluctuate at all.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for being patient with me.
I'm still coming to terms with all of the potential differences between different turbo setups and the way different cars react to the flash.
I've been concentrating heavily on the N/A guys. Not just because there are more of them but because my experience there gives me more information to use when working on the turbo tunes which tend to "amplify" the differences between cars.

The common denominator amongst all of the turbo tunes so far seems to be WAAAAY too much fuel in boost.
I don't want to just start pulling fuel from the various maps until I understand why the PCM is asking for that much fuel in the first place.

Part of the problem is that none of the cars that I have direct access to exhibit this behavior.
The MAF tubes are usually the culprit, but I will have solutions in place over the next several days.

The DTC masking is still broken. That should be fixed soon, but it is a "cosmetic" issue since the CEL is not really pointing to a problem and it isn't affecting engine performance.
As soon as that gets updated, everyone - even the people that are already running well - will get a new set of calibrations.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

Jeff --speaking of maf pipes--i was playing around with a few and this maf is VERY sensitive to even a small change--you even need to make sure the tube coupling has a smooth inside and no ridges.
olddragger

Grouch

I've been looking at all the other posts discussing the maf tube also. I think Jeff has one that is 6" on either side of the maff so the airflow has more room to be consistent. I'm just trying to hunt down the thread that explains why we can't just stick with, for example, something like the 3" mazsport cai, because it looks quite long on either side of the maf and the tune can be scaled to 3" but i can't remember why it might not be the best idea

turborx8

iTrader: (1)

Because the MAF sensor will get maxed out faster in a smaller tube. If you plan to increase boost and go with MazdaManiacs turbo upgrade it would be smart to keep the MAF tube 3.5".

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Yes.

Yes.

The MAF Maxes out around 360 g/sec on a 3.375" tube.
On a 3" tube, it maxes out well below 300 g/sec. That's only 360 crank HP or so.

Grouch

360? bah, can't have that.

I'm going to go to Home Depot today and see if I can fabricate something temporarily about of PVC or ABS. I'll aim for 3.5" in diameter and try to get 6" on either side of the MAF. I'm just wondering how I'm going to mount the MAF sensor. I'm thinking of silicone and wood. I just want to see if this will decrease the turbulence in boost if that might be the problem. Maybe I just need to clean my sensor.

steven000e

Refreshing news

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

do the pedal dance.
olddragger

zoom44

ok since i was just thinking about MAF stuff and looking for a place to post this let me start with a slap to my forhead



i for some reason had forgotten about this aspect of our new found freedom

we no longer need to worry about the stock MAF limits ....


we can change the tables

if you want to move more than 360 Gms per sec get a new MAF

http://www.sctflash.com/BigAir.php

want to run a blow thru?

get a MAF that was designed for that application!

http://www.vmptuning.com/store/index...=234&parent=29

im all a twitter cant believe i had let that thought go for so long

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

^^ It'll take some work, but it is all doable.

drifter_d

Found this thread today and I'm on it...!